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Rock Defender [72]
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Swinney is in Rare company
Jan 18, 2019, 7:08 PM
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There have been a handful of coaches over the past 40 years that have won MULTIPLE national championships. Personally I think Swinney has blown by holtz and spurrier in terms of accolades and he is so young. Can u name anyone else this young with this level of accomplishment if cfb history?
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All-In [40872]
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There are only 2 active coaches with multiple NC wins***
Jan 18, 2019, 7:11 PM
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Urban Meyer***
Jan 19, 2019, 11:18 AM
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Legend [16646]
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He IS
Jan 19, 2019, 11:19 AM
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Rare company...
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Legend [19911]
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You said history, so don't get mad at me for going back 100+ years
Jan 19, 2019, 11:24 AM
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but Fielding Yost was hired as Michigan's head coach at the age of 30 in 1901. He then proceeded to coach them to 4 consecutive national championships from 1901-1904 and 2 more in 1918 and 1923.
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1st Rounder [610]
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Re: Swinney is in Rare company
Jan 19, 2019, 11:31 AM
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When did they start placing limits on scholarships and do other things to level the playing field? Bear Bryant had huge advantages, including unlimited scholarships, championships awarded before bowl games, etc.
I say 1980 is the farthest you can really go back to compare coaches to Dabo Swinney. Since 1980 (the last year Georgia won a title), there have been the following multiple-title winning coaches:
Saban - 6
Meyer - 3
Osbourne- 3
Paterno - 2
Bowden - 2
Dennis Erickson - 2
Swinney - 2
I’m excluding Pete Carroll because he did not win the 2003 title - LSU did. Besides, the 2004 title was vacated.
So in 38 years, only 7 multiple-title winning coaches. Of those 7, surprisingly 5 won at least 2 titles in 3 years (all but Bowden and Paterno). Saban and Osbourne went a step further and won 3 in 4 years. Both have asterisks for that achievement, however, because Osbourne split the title in 1997 in the last pre-BCS title. Saban should never have gotten to play for the title in 2011 because they had already lost to LSU at home and didn’t even play in the SEC title game. LSU should have gotten to play Oklahoma State.
So if we win next year, which is a distinct possibility, then Swinney’s 3 in 4 years will be the most impressive achievement in at least the last 38 years of “modern football” over a 4 year period.
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Legend [19911]
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1973
Jan 19, 2019, 11:37 AM
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1973 brought about the first limitations on football scholarships in order to free up money for women's sports after Title IX was passed by Congress in 1972 as part of the Equal Opportunity in Education Act. This caused the NCAA schools' presidents and athletic directors to push through a limit of 105 football scholarships. Additional reductions were made in 1978 (95) and again in 1992 which brought the limit to its present number of 85 and 63 for Division I-AA.
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1st Rounder [610]
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Re: 1973
Jan 19, 2019, 11:43 AM
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Nice insight. I didn’t know the history there. I’ll stick by my 1980 cutoff because I don’t feel like doing more research and 1980 is a nice even year.
Also, I’d imagine that by 1980 all the schools were finally fully integrated. Didn’t the South not start letting black players on the team until the early 70’s?
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Orange Blooded [2340]
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Re: 1973
Jan 19, 2019, 11:49 AM
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Good point. There were numerous teams that didn't have their first black player until the very late 60's or early 70's. Bama specifically didn't sign their first black player until 1971.
There was a documentary a few years back called "Against the Tide" that outlined the real USC's game against them in 1970 in Alabama that had black players playing a game in the state of Alabama for the first time.
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Recruit [90]
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Re: Swinney is in Rare company
Jan 19, 2019, 11:44 AM
[ in reply to Re: Swinney is in Rare company ] |
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Didn’t Barry Switzer win multiple championships at Oklahoma?
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1st Rounder [610]
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Re: Swinney is in Rare company
Jan 19, 2019, 11:48 AM
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Yes, but only one after 1980
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Orange Blooded [2340]
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Re: Swinney is in Rare company
Jan 19, 2019, 11:45 AM
[ in reply to Re: Swinney is in Rare company ] |
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I don't think it's fair to leave out Pete Carroll. You may think that 2003 LSU was the better team and deserved the title, but you included Tom Osborne's 1997 title at Nebraska even though Michigan split that title with them. If you don't count 2003 USC then you can't count 1997 Nebraska.
Also, even though the NCAA no longer recognizes USC as the 2004 champ, they were still by far the best team that year on the field. The NCAA can take them out of the record books all they want, but it doesn't change what the team did on the field along with their dismantling of a very good OU team in the championship.
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1st Rounder [610]
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Re: Swinney is in Rare company
Jan 19, 2019, 11:50 AM
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In 1999, the BCS era began in which all entities agreed the #1 team would be settled on the field by putting #1 vs #2. The BCS game would decide the national title. That was the agreement. LSU won that game in 2003 and is, therefore, the sole national title winner.
The AP went rogue and awarded USC the national title for 2003, but that is no different than UCF awarding themselves a national title last year. It means jack squat. There is only one trophy, and LSU has it for 2003,
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Orange Blooded [2340]
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Re: Swinney is in Rare company
Jan 19, 2019, 1:37 PM
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I don't equate UCF awarding themselves national champs in 2017 with the AP naming USC the national champ in 2003.
Since 1936 the AP has been arguably the most trusted outlets in terms of naming the national champion. The AP was not a party to the BCS system which began in the 1998 season. They didn't simply "go rogue" in 2003. They just continued to award their national champion using the same system that they had always used.
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1st Rounder [610]
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Re: Swinney is in Rare company
Jan 19, 2019, 1:42 PM
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They were one of the parties that agreed to the BCS game determining the champion. They violated the contract they signed, so to speak, rendering null and void anyone they named as champion. Again, one trophy and LSU has it. USC has zero actual championships in the last 38 years.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Swinney is in Rare company
Jan 19, 2019, 2:34 PM
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The AP was not party in any way to the formation of the BCS. You are either confusing them with the Coaches Poll (formerly associated with UPI - United Press International) or completely fabricating it.
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1st Rounder [610]
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Re: Swinney is in Rare company
Jan 19, 2019, 1:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: Swinney is in Rare company ] |
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The “AP” also gave the Heisman to Woodson over Peyton Manning and Lamar Jackson over Deshaun Watson. They are far from “trusted.” I have little respect for the opinion of journalists of any kind, including sports journalists.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Swinney is in Rare company
Jan 19, 2019, 2:42 PM
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I don’t think you understand what the AP is. The AP speciifcally awards it’s own AP Player of the Year. That award began in 1998 so didn’t involve Woodson/Manning. The Downtown Atheltic Club awards the Heisman based on voting from 870 voters theoretically spread evenly across the country representing all facets of sports media,
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Orange Blooded [2340]
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Re: Swinney is in Rare company
Jan 19, 2019, 5:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: Swinney is in Rare company ] |
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Ummm...the Heisman is awarded by Downtown Athletic Club of New York. The AP selects their own AP Player of the Year, but is not involved whatsoever in the selection of the Heisman winner.
There are always going to be people who disagree about who should have won the Heisman—that's the way it's always been. I'm just not sure what the Heisman has to do with the who the AP selects as National Champions.
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Legend [19911]
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1st Rounder [610]
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Re: What's this?
Jan 19, 2019, 2:30 PM
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Not the real trophy. That’s basically a participation trophy. The crystal ball is in Baton Rouge.
#### USC.
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Orange Blooded [3405]
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Re: Swinney is in Rare company
Jan 19, 2019, 11:37 AM
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Bob Stoops won his first national championship when he was 40 and played for a few more. He did not win multiple, but I think he will be considered near the top all time coaches with an .800 winning percentage.
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1st Rounder [610]
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Re: Swinney is in Rare company
Jan 19, 2019, 11:41 AM
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I think you need more than 1 title to be considered in the top tier. You also can’t have the derogatory nickname “Big Game Bob” for always losing a big game each year. That 2000 defense was special, but they also benefited from Florida State’s best offensive player - Lavernous Coles - missing the game because he shoplifted or otherwise stole something in the weeks leading up the game. FSU earned their “Criminoles” moniker.
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Orange Blooded [2340]
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Re: Swinney is in Rare company
Jan 19, 2019, 11:52 AM
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The funny thing about the nickname "Big Game Bob" is that it was initially given to him as a compliment early in his OU tenure because of his propensity to always win the biggest games that the Sooners played in. After the 2004 shellacking by USC, it began to be used more and more as a derogatory term. They went on to lose the Fiesta Bowl to Boise State and the national championship to Florida over the next few years.
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Orange Blooded [3405]
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Re: Swinney is in Rare company
Jan 19, 2019, 12:03 PM
[ in reply to Re: Swinney is in Rare company ] |
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I’m not sure I agree that you have to win multiple championships to be considered in the highest class. A lot goes into winning a championship from staffs to players to a little luck. I think that sustained performance over decades is a more appropriate indicator. He coached in 4 national championship games, and 5 other BCS games. More than half the bowl games he coached were BCS or CFP. That’s very good.
As for that FSU team, if I remember correctly, the best offensive player was Peter Warrick, at least he was the one getting a Heisman hype. I don’t think Coles ever did much in college, which is probably why Bobby Bowden threw him to the curb and not Warrick.
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1st Rounder [610]
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Re: Swinney is in Rare company
Jan 19, 2019, 12:27 PM
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Warri I was gone by 2000. 1999 was his last year.
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Orange Blooded [3405]
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Re: Swinney is in Rare company
Jan 19, 2019, 2:31 PM
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Then 1999 was the last year for Coles as well. They were both arrested for shoplifting. Coles was dismissed and Warrick suspended for a few games because he was better.
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110%er [6095]
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it’s extrodinay. Think Bobby Bowden, Osbourn
Jan 19, 2019, 12:25 PM
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Paterno, Erickson Two titles.
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All-In [29823]
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Yeah it was the 66 Bama team that got shunned over
Jan 19, 2019, 2:24 PM
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lack of integration...
Although they were the only undefeated and untied college team at the conclusion of the year, Alabama was not selected as national champions for the season. On the 1966 squad, Green Bay Packers head coach Vince Lombardi stated: "I don't know, we haven't played Alabama yet" when asked how it felt to have the world's greatest football team for the season after his Packers won Super Bowl I.
Keith Dunnavant suggests in his book about the 1966 season, that the continued segregation of the Alabama football team (the Crimson Tide did not integrate until Wilbur Jackson and John Mitchell made the 1971 team), as well as the Birmingham campaign and Selma to Montgomery marches by white Alabamians during the Civil Rights Movement, cost the Crimson Tide support with voters in 1966 and led to the third-place finish. The 1966 squad was retroactively recognized as national champion by Berryman and Sagarin (ELO-Chess) but Alabama does not claim either in their official national championship total.
The guy up at MSU (Daugherty) was famous for poaching the best black athletes in the south and taking them to MSU, where they could play major ball. Got a FANTASTIC one from the Anderson-Greenville area but his name escapes me right now. Some of the old traditional black schools in the south had great programs too till their talent was siphoned off.
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All-In [29823]
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George Webster
Jan 19, 2019, 2:32 PM
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3 time all star
Rookie of the year
2 time all American
Daugherty's connections to white college coaches who couldn't take black players also paid off for MSU. NC State coach Earle Edwards, a former Spartans assistant, helped get Raye to Michigan State. Alabama coach Paul "Bear" Bryant encouraged Charles "Mad Dog" Thornhill, a fullback whom he had met at a touchdown club event, to be a Spartan. Clemson coach Frank Howard steered Webster to East Lansing.
"Any time those coaches knew a black player in high school that they heard about, they would immediately call Duffy," Washington said. "He had all these coaches calling him."
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/8970293/segregation-led-star-players-michigan-state-spartans-1960s-college-football
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