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Hall of Famer [24874]
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Where would you rate Clemson in terms of ACC basketball jobs?
Mar 22, 2017, 10:54 AM
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We could easily list the better basketball jobs in the acc. But which ones are we better jobs than?
Any of them? We are probably close with VT and BC. But when those two have a slight edge. Are we the 15th best job out there in our league?
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All-In [26968]
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I don't think you can make blanket statements like that...
Mar 22, 2017, 10:56 AM
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For some coaches, it might be the 15th best job, for them. For other coaches, it may be the best one.
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Scout Team [174]
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Re: I don't think you can make blanket statements like that...
Mar 22, 2017, 11:01 AM
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Clemson basket has been ranked one of the worse job in the country for a long time. The administration never took basketball seriously therefore it fell behind.
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Hall of Famer [24874]
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As far as power conference jobs
Mar 22, 2017, 11:06 AM
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We are a better job than Rutgers, Penn state, Nebraska, Oregon state, Washington state, ole miss, miss state(even though they have a final four in their history), auburn.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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are you asking or telling?***
Mar 22, 2017, 11:04 AM
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All-TigerNet [12834]
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Re: are you asking or telling?***
Mar 22, 2017, 8:37 PM
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Lol, apparently both.
Pretty accurately though.??
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Legend [19567]
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Above BC
Mar 22, 2017, 11:05 AM
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Similar to VT. After that hard to argue it's better than other jobs even if it's just recruiting advantages due to geography schools like UM, GT and FSU have. All other schools have much better tradition
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Legend [16121]
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BC has better tradition too...even with the point shaving***
Mar 22, 2017, 12:21 PM
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All-TigerNet [12098]
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We've been jobbed pretty good
Mar 22, 2017, 11:11 AM
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by the last few coaches I can remember
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Legend [15212]
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Re: Where would you rate Clemson in terms of ACC basketball jobs?
Mar 22, 2017, 11:14 AM
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I think you could argue MAYBE better than BC, Miami, VT.
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Team Captain [453]
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Hard to sytemically rank them 1-15, but i think you can
Mar 22, 2017, 11:15 AM
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Group the jobs based on tradition, recruiting, facilities, history, fan support etc.
If I had to guess
Tier 1: Duke, UNC, Syracuse
Tier 2: Louisville, Notre Dame, UVa
Tier 3: NC State, Pitt
Tier 4: Clemson, BC, GT, Va Tech, Florida State, Wake Forest, Miami
You can argue some of the separation points from tier 1-3 but tier 4 is pretty much the group of schools that all have multiple flaws. Lack of history, lack of recruiting base, lack of national branding, lack of facilities etc.
We are squarely in that bottom group as far as ACC job desirability goes.
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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Just to nit pick i would say that Louisville and Cuse are on
Mar 22, 2017, 11:24 AM
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the same tier and that tier is probably behind Duke and UNC but ahead of ND and UVA. Aside from that i pretty much agree.
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Team Captain [453]
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I wouldn't argue with that
Mar 22, 2017, 12:43 PM
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Thought Syracuse had a bit more history than Louisville, but Louisville does have 3 national titles. Gave an edge to 'cuse for the recruiting base in NYC and the fact that Louisville has only played in a major conference since the mid 2000's. Being a member of the Metro conference and Conf. USA prior to that.
But I'd agree Duke and UNC have another level of pedigree that those two don't quite have.
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Legend [15212]
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Re: Hard to sytemically rank them 1-15, but i think you can
Mar 22, 2017, 11:32 AM
[ in reply to Hard to sytemically rank them 1-15, but i think you can ] |
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Yeah, I'd agree here.
I'd probably put GT in Tier 3 just due to them being in Atlanta. I have no idea how they aren't always up there in the top half of the conference. Seems like a sleeping giant.
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Team Captain [453]
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I struggled with GT
Mar 22, 2017, 12:36 PM
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They've been to a couple of final fours and back in the mid 80's - mid 90's they were as talented as any team in the ACC every year. But outside of that run they've only made the tourney 5 times in the past 20 seasons (granted one of those was a run the the 2004 finals).
For whatever reason, they don't seem to put all the assets they have together very well other than the decade I mentioned above.
But I agree, it's a sleeping program, much like Clemson football was for decades, and the right coach could make all the difference there.
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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There's a pretty large group that we are significantly
Mar 22, 2017, 11:23 AM
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behind. Duke, UNC, Louisville, Cuse, UVA, and ND. Pitt is a bit down right now but has had way more historical success. NC State is also down but they have better facilities and a fan base that is far more passionate about basketball. GT has also had more historical success and has a tremendous location for recruiting local talent, but they don't have a strong local fan base and that hurts them in all of their sports.
Wake is a tricky one. They've had great teams in the past but it doesn't seem like their athletic department has a lot going for it right now. I think they still get the edge because of the Prosser teams, Duncan, Paul, etc. At least theirs a blueprint and a history of success.
We are probably in the group with FSU, Miami, VT, and maybe BC. At one point BC was clearly ahead of us but their entire athletic department is a huge disaster right now. The other three all have good to very good coaches right now, but that seems to be the only thing really separating them from Clemson. Of course the fact that they did manage to land those coaches has to mean something.
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CU Guru [1806]
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I would say we are ranked right about how we finished in the
Mar 22, 2017, 11:24 AM
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league standings this year. Although you could argue NC-State is a better overall program and the job is better there.
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110%er [7913]
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would agree NC State is a better job and to me
Mar 22, 2017, 11:51 AM
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it's not close
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Legend [16121]
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it's NOT***
Mar 22, 2017, 12:22 PM
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Oculus Spirit [96811]
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It's not a better job or it's not close?***
Mar 22, 2017, 12:24 PM
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Legend [16121]
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it's not close***
Mar 22, 2017, 1:55 PM
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110%er [6153]
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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How much are we willing to pay a coaching staff?
Mar 22, 2017, 11:31 AM
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That is what holds us back, now that we have good facilities. Alabama just signed a top 5 basketball recruiting class in the country and their best recruiting class ever.
If we aren't willing to pay up, it's near the bottom. If we are willing to pay up, it's near the middle or higher. We can be a great basketball program. The lack of self esteem of our basketball program is based in large part on the past attitudes of our administration, not any actual impossible hurdles. No reason that can't change going forward.
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All-In [43999]
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Excellent post! I agree 100%
Mar 22, 2017, 8:45 PM
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All of the reasons some of our fans use for our lack of basketball success are pathetic excuses. Clemson has NEVER fully committed to basketball with the goal of being a great program. As you said, our own lack of self esteem as a program holds us back a lot.
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MVP [505]
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Re: Where would you rate Clemson in terms of ACC basketball jobs?
Mar 22, 2017, 11:48 AM
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We should be in the top eight, always!!!!!
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110%er [7913]
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is 16 out of 15 an option?
Mar 22, 2017, 11:50 AM
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when you can't get a grad to come home you're probably close to the bottom.....but hey we can only improve from here.
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All-TigerNet [10402]
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Re: Where would you rate Clemson in terms of ACC basketball jobs?
Mar 22, 2017, 12:24 PM
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Right in front of BC
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Heisman Winner [111423]
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Re: Where would you rate Clemson in terms of ACC basketball jobs?
Mar 22, 2017, 12:39 PM
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tied with VT for dead last
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CU Medallion [58376]
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Near the bottom, but no reason it couldn't be near the
Mar 22, 2017, 12:40 PM
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top in 10-20 years, and that's the way we have to start thinking.
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All-In [43999]
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AMEN! We need a culture change.
Mar 22, 2017, 8:46 PM
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We need enthusiasm, direction, and confidence. We need short-, medium-, and long-term goals. As you said, there is no reason why we can't be near the top in 10-20 years.
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Orange Blooded [3521]
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CU BB hasn't changed since Bobby Roberts CU is a FB school***
Mar 22, 2017, 12:46 PM
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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We didn't support Press Maravich when we had him and
Mar 22, 2017, 9:21 PM
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he was a great basketball coach. John Wooden called him the "best basketball mind" in the game at the time.
With Press Maravich *and* full athletic department support, Clemson would be competitive in the ACC today.
All water under the bridge though.
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All-In [27180]
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My response would be the same as Dabo's in football. Why
Mar 22, 2017, 3:50 PM
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not little ol' Clemson? Why not?
If we want it, we can go do it. Problem is, AD doesn't want to. He made that very, very apparent when he retained Brownell.
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Team Captain [496]
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Re: Where would you rate Clemson in terms of ACC basketball jobs?
Mar 22, 2017, 4:09 PM
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Over the decades our on-court success beats Virginia Tech and Miami.
Some would say that the Miami living situation would sway that coaching job to a notch or two above Clemson ... Leaving us 14th of 15. I am not one of those persons, so I rate our job as 13th.
Message was edited by: Willyumyum®
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All-In [43999]
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Currently or historically?
Mar 22, 2017, 5:19 PM
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Programs like NC State, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, and Boston College are historically better, but I'm not sure they are better jobs NOW.
I'm not sure a history of success matters much in recruiting when that success was a long time ago. Recruits today don't know about Jim Valvano, Bobby Cremins, etc. - nor do they really care. They care about:
-How good the program is now
-What kind of facilities are available to them
-How well the coach will prepare them for the NBA
Even though Virginia Tech and Florida State aren't really much better than Clemson historically, they seem significantly better now due to their superior talent and recent success.
Given the new facilities, and the uptick in recruiting, it seems that Clemson can quickly become a better job than it currently is. The question is, will Clemson continue to support basketball or are these new facilities just a brief diversion from otherwise pathetic support for basketball?
Clemson basketball can easily be a consistent mid-ACC program - not to the level of Duke and UNC, but far better than the programs at the bottom of the ACC. But it will take consistent persistence. I hope we have it in us.
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CU Guru [1898]
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I think a good job comes down to
Mar 22, 2017, 8:27 PM
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Administration support
Fan support
Facilities
Fund raising
Recruiting leverage
Culture
Pressure to perform
I think we are mid-tier with recruiting leverage the weakest. Fans wait in line if we win. You get a bye on down seasons. Brownell's contract shows the admin support you and the facilities are now nice due to find raising. As OP used to say, Clemson is a sports school.
After the top four, Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Louisville, I would say NC State and UVASare hard due to pressure to win on UNC level.
We are certainly even with ND, FSU, VT, GT, Miami. BC and Wake are unique but equal.
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All-In [48078]
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Somewhere in the bottom 3.*****
Mar 22, 2017, 8:47 PM
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