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CU Guru [1310]
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The Bowden Years Mentality
Oct 31, 2017, 12:20 AM
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Back in the Bowden years, we would be going through scenarios about how we could still win the Atlantic even if we lose to NC State this weekend. Or how we might sneak into the Russell Athletic Bowl. Glad we never hear talk like that anymore.
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Heisman Winner [111420]
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Re: The Bowden Years Mentality
Oct 31, 2017, 12:31 AM
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you have to give Bowden a lot of credit for accomplishing what he did with the resources he had available. He very well could have won an ACC championship if not for BC and Matt Ryan back in '05. The biggest difference I see is the ability of this staff to load the roster with quality depth. Bowden never had a problem recruiting starters, but we were always an injury or two away from 7-5.
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Legend [16121]
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I agree with everything except the 07 team winning the ACC,
Oct 31, 2017, 12:49 AM
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VT would have beaten us again, but we would have won the Atlantic if we had gotten past BC
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Heisman Winner [111420]
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Re: I agree with everything except the 07 team winning the ACC,
Oct 31, 2017, 1:00 AM
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good point, at least a division title that year. '08 was probably one of the only season under Bowden where the coaching staff did not make the most of what they had, and we know what happened.
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Orange Blooded [2989]
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Disagree. We had a young and average offensive line in '08
Oct 31, 2017, 1:53 AM
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in addition to other weaker positions, lack of depth, and personnel issues. The media rarely looks far beyond some skill talent, and had us picked way too high.
The linemen, players, recruiting, and coaching we have now is better than what we had back then.
Hopefully it will get even better.
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Heisman Winner [111420]
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Re: Disagree. We had a young and average offensive line in '08
Oct 31, 2017, 1:59 AM
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I was mistaken, I thought we returned most of our starters at oline that year. I do remember we were picked first in the ACC and loaded with skill talent. To your point below we were not good up front and lining up in a two point stance under Spence did not help matters.
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CU Medallion [56756]
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the size difference is what i remember***
Oct 31, 2017, 2:06 AM
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Trainer [43]
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Well
Oct 31, 2017, 2:07 AM
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Size matters, of course ??
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110%er [5572]
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Re: The Bowden Years Mentality
Oct 31, 2017, 6:27 AM
[ in reply to Re: The Bowden Years Mentality ] |
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Tommy deserves credit for a lot of things, BUT, championship material his teams were not.
Clemson was known as a "finesse" team under Tommy. Clemson was mentally weak and melted when other teams "punched us in the mouth". His teams were mentally soft and lacked physicality.
Everything people say when discussing Dabo's tigers are exactly opposite Tommy's Big, Tough, Physical, Nasty, Strong, Conditioned, etc...Bowden's teams were fast, that's about it.
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All-In [40738]
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Re: The Bowden Years Mentality
Oct 31, 2017, 6:59 AM
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You are correct. I don't get the people that want to heap praise on Tommy's coaching job at Clemson. His teams could never get over the mental hurdle. Ralph Freigden event old his players that if they punched us in the mouth we would lay down. In 2003 we opened the season by getting blown out by Georgia and were physically whipped by Wake to the tune of 45-17. The team would then go on to beat two top ten teams in the last four games including the 63-17 beat down of SC. Jekyll and Hyde. A team that talented still lost four games. The next season we beat a top ten Miami team in Miami only to turn around and lose to lowly Duke the next week. Underperformance was a recurring theme in the Bowden years. I lost faith in him after the 2004 season. I knew he would never maximize the talent he had. The door was wide open for success especially since FSU was down. Bowden's teams never seized the opportunity. You should be able to win at least one championship at Clemson in ten years. One of the guys covering our game a few weeks ago said ten wins should be the floor for a program like Clemson. That would have been nine wins in Bowden's day. He only reached the floor once.
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Orange Blooded [3750]
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Re: The Bowden Years Mentality
Oct 31, 2017, 7:15 AM
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Reckless and Cootsmackdown- you two have nailed it here! Tommy Bowden's teams were soft as butter sitting in the sun in July. When you hit his teams in the mouth they gave up most of the time. When you hit Dabo's teams in the mouth they just smile and ask, "Is that all you got?" Then they throw a knockout punch in return.
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All-In [40738]
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Re: The Bowden Years Mentality
Oct 31, 2017, 9:17 AM
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I know it took Dabo a couple of years to get that mentality out of the program but we are the type hard nosed team that defines real Clemson football. For those who have only started following Clemson since the 90s or Bowden's tenure I guess I can understand where they come from but I am a fan from the Ford era and the toughness of Bowden's teams was unacceptable for Clemson.
Message was edited by: CootSmackdown16
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Orange Blooded [2989]
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The truth is we have better linemen, coordinators,
Oct 31, 2017, 1:35 AM
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coaching, and players than we did back then. We had some skill talent, but were average
in the trenches. Recruiting has been so much better.
But all of that did start with changing the mentality of the school's leadership behind the scenes.
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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I don't believe one part of that.
Oct 31, 2017, 9:30 AM
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Since the NCAA problems during the 1980s our University has hired coaches with one particular characteristic, integrity. That doesn't not translate directly to high quality sports. Imo, the administration had no possible way to know that Dabo would be a good head coach. He was hired because of his integrity and people skills.
Other than that he was proven only as a recruiter and WR coach. Imo, God blessed us despite our ignorance. And don't get me wrong, I was 100% with Clemson's decision to hire the man but not because I wanted a National Championship team, it was because I wanted a clean program which graduates players and produces fine men to make this world a better place.
I appreciated his Christian influence on the boys, university and community. I'm happier than a pig in a mud hole about the hire. Imo, it was the best coaching hire of this century.
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Legend [17756]
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The TigerNet Mentality
Oct 31, 2017, 5:52 AM
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Was that Dabo was a mistake.
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Legend [17888]
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Tigernet also thought Bowden was the answer
Oct 31, 2017, 7:51 AM
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so, there is that too.
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Legend [17756]
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Re: Tigernet also thought Bowden was the answer
Oct 31, 2017, 8:04 AM
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Tommy was for a while.
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Legend [17888]
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The Bowden Years Mentality is defined by 9 win seasons
Oct 31, 2017, 7:50 AM
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that is, how many he didn't have. Oh, and Wake Forest blunders, and, oh, half of the teams that played on any given day lost. And that last point , my Tiger friend, is the true defining characteristic of the Bowden years.
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CU Medallion [64519]
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The Bowden Years Mentality is defined by inconsistency***
Oct 31, 2017, 8:55 AM
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