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All-Pro [673]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Thank you.
Nov 6, 2014, 11:20 PM
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Well the election is over and I lost my race 75% - 25%. Not bad for a Libertarian. I got the highest percentage by any Libertarian in Henderson County history, and the highest percentage of any Libertarian in North Carolina.
I appreciate all the support I've gotten from Tigernet. Also a big thanks for calling me out when I'm wrong and letting me say all my really stupid stuff here and not on the campaign trail.
Go Tigers.
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110%er [9093]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I voted for you 10 times***
Nov 7, 2014, 8:15 AM
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All-In [30481]
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Early, too.***
Nov 7, 2014, 12:55 PM
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All-In [33418]
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It's a tough uphill battle for 3rd parties
Nov 7, 2014, 8:40 AM
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I voted for a few Libertarians because I'm absolutely disgusted by some of the Pubs here in GA, unfortunately it's going to take something major to make a major dent in these votes
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All-In [34104]
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Don't give up!***
Nov 7, 2014, 9:56 AM
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Heisman Winner [111495]
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Re: Thank you.
Nov 7, 2014, 1:11 PM
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keep your chin up, if any state deserves to be a petri dish for complete anarchy, it is North Carolina.
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Orange Blooded [3516]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Re: Thank you.
Nov 8, 2014, 10:35 AM
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You know I would figure a true Libertarian could get elected without any help. Doesn't asking for support from other people go against everything you believe?
Just busting your chops a little...I have some Libertarian views but couldn't resist.
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All-Pro [673]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Joined: 4/22/11
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Libertarians aren't against help
Nov 8, 2014, 7:30 PM
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In fit charity and helping others is a critical part of a libertarian society. What Libertarian oppose is the use of force
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Orange Blooded [3516]
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Re: Libertarians aren't against help
Nov 10, 2014, 1:26 PM
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Again, just jabbing you a little. But to your point, do you REALLY think that everyone needing help everywhere would get help if no one was forced to "contribute". I think we sometimes see the benevolence in our own little circles not recognizing it is not the same everywhere. Also, when you pick and choose who to help, I think ones own prejudices may play a huge part in deciding where to send funds...
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All-Pro [673]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Bottom line up front
Nov 10, 2014, 10:20 PM
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It all boils down to this for me. It is my money. I have earned it though my own efforts and talents. Therefor it should be my choice to how that money is spent. Taxes are taken under the threat of force, and to use violence to take someones wealth, even with the intent to give it to others, is immoral.
I'd be happy to go deeper into the question if you'd like.
P.S. I know you were just jabbing me.
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All-In [31887]
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So, playing devil's advocate here....by your reasoning...
Nov 11, 2014, 8:16 AM
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all taxation is immoral?
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All-Pro [673]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Yes. Taxation is theft.***
Nov 11, 2014, 9:25 PM
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All-In [31887]
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mmmkay...good luck with that***
Nov 12, 2014, 8:04 AM
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Orange Blooded [3516]
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Re: Yes. Taxation is theft.***
Nov 12, 2014, 2:25 PM
[ in reply to Yes. Taxation is theft.*** ] |
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Ok, you kind of had me up until this part. Without taxation, how do we build the roads that you drive on or fund the military. Those are just two examples, but many other things we fund for the common good/use that require money to be built and maintained. If this were the 1700's then I think being a libertarian would be fabulous. But, today it's just not feasible/possible until the party platform adapts to the current realities of society.
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All-In [31887]
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Pretty sure they had taxes in 1700's too :)***
Nov 12, 2014, 3:45 PM
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All-Pro [673]
TigerPulse: 96%
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I am okay with user fess.
Nov 12, 2014, 10:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: Yes. Taxation is theft.*** ] |
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For example the roads could be built and maintained by a sales tax attached to gasoline and tires. This tax would still be optional as no one is forced to buy gasoline or tires.
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All-In [34104]
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Re: I am okay with user fess.
Nov 14, 2014, 1:30 PM
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Sales tax is optional because we don't have to buy things, and therefore is not theft?
In that case, income tax is also not theft. After all, it's optional because we don't have to earn income.
(The obvious response would seem to be "Of COURSE you have to earn income." But that triggers the response, "Yes, and of COURSE you have to buy things. Otherwise what are you earning the income for?")
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All-Pro [673]
TigerPulse: 96%
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True
Nov 14, 2014, 3:00 PM
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Very true. You also have to think that force may be used against sellers to collect the sales tax. As I stated I view it as less immoral.
The reason I support a sales tax over an income tax is because we don't want to punish people for earning. Instead we can levee a tax on consumers who drive up inflation.
My 2cents.
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All-In [31887]
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so the single act of buying something drives up inflation?***
Nov 14, 2014, 3:11 PM
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All-In [34104]
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When you say that taxation is theft...
Nov 12, 2014, 6:06 PM
[ in reply to Yes. Taxation is theft.*** ] |
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are you saying that it is NEVER justified?
After all, theft is the taking of someone's property without justification, isn't it?
If you equate theft with taxes, you have to conclude one of two things:
Either
1) Theft is sometimes justified,
or
2) Taxes are never justified.
Which one of these statements do you agree with?
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All-Pro [673]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Joined: 4/22/11
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Taxes are never justified.***
Nov 12, 2014, 10:54 PM
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All-In [34104]
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That's a very extreme position, obviously. Presumably you
Nov 13, 2014, 7:20 AM
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believe that we should fund government somehow. What is your proposal to fund the government without using taxes, and are those funding methods more justified for some reason?
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All-Pro [673]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: That's a very extreme position, obviously. Presumably you
Nov 13, 2014, 5:21 PM
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In my perfect world, government (if there was any) would be funded entirely by my voluntary methods. ie. donation and lottery.
However, I accept that most people aren't ready for my perfect world. Something we can do now that would be a huge step in the right direction is eliminate all taxes (property, income, corporate) and replace it all with a national sales tax. I would argue that this is less immoral since no one is FORCED to buy anything.
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All-In [34104]
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Did you just say that a national sales tax was justified?
Nov 14, 2014, 1:26 PM
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Would there be an exception for necessities?
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All-In [31887]
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And for that matter...who is forcing anyone to get a job....
Nov 14, 2014, 2:23 PM
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and earn an income?
Can't follow the logic where it's a choice to buy things (so tax <> theft), but not a choice to earn an income (so tax = theft).
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All-Pro [673]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 980
Joined: 4/22/11
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Again a sales tax is my compromise.***
Nov 14, 2014, 3:01 PM
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All-In [31887]
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Fine, but it doesn't make any sense....logically....
Nov 14, 2014, 3:06 PM
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makes you position sound...err...without reason.
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All-Pro [673]
TigerPulse: 96%
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All-In [31887]
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wait...what?..
Nov 14, 2014, 3:10 PM
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so potato is not taxed
bread is taxed
steak is not taxed
milk?...I assume taxed if it's homogenized or pasteurized?
cheese would definitely be taxed
shelled nuts - taxed
sorry, but your "system" is a little difficult to understand
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All-Pro [673]
TigerPulse: 96%
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All-In [31887]
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I've been a proponent of the fair tax for a long time....
Nov 16, 2014, 3:42 PM
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and the fair tax does not exempt any food items (or any items for that matter).
From the site:
Why not just exempt food and medicine from the tax? Wouldn’t that be fair and simple?
Exempting items by category is neither fair nor simple. Respected economists have shown that the wealthy spend much more on unprepared food, clothing, housing, and medical care than do the poor. Exempting these goods, as many state sales taxes do, actually gives the wealthy a disproportionate benefit. Also, today these purchases are not exempted from federal taxation. The purchase of food, clothing, and medical services is made from after-income-tax and after-payroll-tax dollars, while their purchase price hides the cost of corporate taxes and private sector compliance costs.
Finally, exempting one product or service, but not another, opens the door to the army of lobbyists and special interest groups that plague and distort our taxation system today. Those who have the money will send lobbyists to Washington to obtain special tax breaks in their own self-interest. This process causes unfair and inefficient distortions in our economy and must be stopped.
So...not sure what the Fair Tax has to do with your position on issues raised above. Please explain.
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All-In [28802]
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Orange Blooded [3516]
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Re: Thank you.
Nov 16, 2014, 3:01 PM
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Alright, I've read through all the responses above and while there are surely things on which we would agree...a true Libertarian platform is not not only not practical...it just won't ever happen....ever. I'm sure you are a swell person and we would probably get along but the fact that you garnered 25% of the vote in your race frankly scares me. I don't mind paying taxes...I wish my local taxes were higher and federal was lower...but I don't mind. I have plenty left over to take care of my family and my future. With that said, I'm sure you have some good ideas...I just wish you and those who think similarly would modify your positions to be more practical so that maybe you could get elected and share those good ideas in a forum where it might actually be heard and do some good.
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All-Pro [673]
TigerPulse: 96%
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