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Help me understand why we can’t just have two new divisions
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Help me understand why we can’t just have two new divisions


Dec 22, 2020, 9:29 AM

in college football.

Top division: power 5

Next division: group of 5

Each division has its own playoff and national championship. Then we can stop the madness of the “unfairness” of the playoff system.

If the power 5 division still wants to go to an 8 team playoff, that could still happen, but the conversation would be centered around the power 5 teams.

Thoughts?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Power 5 already has a 10+ team playoff


Dec 22, 2020, 9:33 AM

5 conference Champ games are 1st round - produces 5 winners
CFP committee decides between those 5 and any other deserving teams to fill the semi-round bracket
Semis give you the 2 finalists

This has been happening since the CFP start.

WE DO NOT NEED AN 8 TEAM BRACKET PLAYOFF

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Teams don't have to win the conference to be in the CFP...***


Dec 23, 2020, 2:15 AM



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null


But they should! CFP would be greatly improved by making


Dec 23, 2020, 5:44 AM

conference championship a requirement to get in the playoff! Just think how much of the subjectivity, and eye test bullcrap, would be taken out of the committee's hands.

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Re: Help me understand why we can’t just have two new divisions


Dec 22, 2020, 9:33 AM

Because money, money, money is a big part of the picture, too.

BTW, college football LOVES all of this controversy every year. It generates tons of interest and money for the sport.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNMhlKv9U0g&ab_channel=NickAbbate

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A Power 5 split away from the NCAA is coming sooner rather


Dec 22, 2020, 9:33 AM

than later. Then, the rest will have their separate NCAA Football Championship.

I worry about what will happen at first when this split occurs. We carp about the NCAA oversight, but if we return to the "Wild, Wild West" days of recruiting, I don't think we (Clemson) has the resources to get into an illegal bidding war for recruits. So, to maintain fairness, you would still have to have an oversight body very similar to the NCAA, but hopefully more pragmatically fair.

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Re: A Power 5 split away from the NCAA is coming sooner rather


Dec 22, 2020, 9:51 AM

I always laugh when people say Clemson can't survive if we return to a "Wild West" mode for college football.

Clemson literally won a national championship during that time in college football.

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That’s a great point.


Dec 22, 2020, 10:12 AM

We won a national championship, multiple conference championships, and recruited well in the late 70s and throughout the 80s. We also got put on probation twice.

So yes, we competed well then. Just not nearly at the level we are at now, and not without getting on probation twice. I would hope we aren’t willing to go that route again, even if that’s what it took to win big.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: That’s a great point.


Dec 22, 2020, 10:41 AM

76 mentioned moving away from the NCAA and their rules which would allow the anything goes mantra to be acceptable.

We wouldn't have to cheat if there were no rules against it.

I agree that I do not want to cheat and end up on probation again.

I read his post as "could we keep up if all of that stuff is legal".

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That’s true, if there aren’t rules, anything goes.


Dec 22, 2020, 11:16 AM

Sounds like it would be pro football where you also have to go to class. Or maybe class would be optional too.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


And got a 3 year bowl ban and other sanctions from the NCAA


Dec 22, 2020, 10:36 AM [ in reply to Re: A Power 5 split away from the NCAA is coming sooner rather ]

for the methods used. And even then, through that time, 1981 was a "one off" year much like LSU last year. Even for all Danny's success subsequently, we always either managed to shoot our ownself in the foot at some point, or never got the votes to make it back to the Final Two. Only now, with a relatively "cleaner" (at least on the surface) recruiting environment have we made it to the Elite.

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Re: And got a 3 year bowl ban and other sanctions from the NCAA


Dec 22, 2020, 10:43 AM

You said if we left the NCAA and there were no longer rules.

That means probation is off the table.

Also, of course it was a 1-off because we were put on probation.

My comment was on Clemson finding the available resources.

You said we doubted we could come up with those resources in a "no rules" environment.

I just said that we already have before.

Also then we did it without the name to carry us and help us out.

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How many P5 teams need to be dumped? Is Vandy P5? Wake?


Dec 22, 2020, 10:44 AM [ in reply to A Power 5 split away from the NCAA is coming sooner rather ]

Needs to be some pruning in that scenario to facilitate having only 4 power 5 conferences, then only 1 rep per conference in the CFP.

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Re: Help me understand why we can’t just have two new divisions


Dec 22, 2020, 10:09 AM

My solution would be to group the Group of 5 in a tiered long-format playoff....
----
Actually, I think it would be good for a lot of the Group of Five to quasi-split format/divisions/conferences. Nearly go to the FCS format of sorts... or really more like soccer tournament qualifying. I think THAT would put a lot more pressure on the P5 to start including better Gof5 teams. It would be hard to deny any winners coming out that they were not built from a good stock and played good teams.

Each group of 5 goes into six team "pods" based on geography - or think small divisions within current conferences. The top two/three teams in each grouping then play each other. For example,

AAC is now N/S (and assumes 6 teams - per pod), top two team advances. Assume

They play (assumed record): North Cincy 5-0 Memphis 4-1 vs Tulsa 4-1, UCF 4-1. Each play the opposite side teams - i= no rematches (but head to head records are the tie breaker). Again, the top two teams advance. Thus is Cincy goes 0-2, Tulsa goes 2-0 and UCF and Memphis are 1-1 but Memphis holds the tie breaker and advances. (Alternative: scenarios still work - Or you had the South go 2-0 vs the North each, Tulsa and UCF advance, or everyone go 1-1 and Cincy and Tulsa advance.)

You leave conference play in 7 games with guaranteed high-quality matches mid season..

Meanwhile, the same thing is also happening in other Gof5 conferences/formats.

Thus we have per-described second round opponent tie-in or begin bracket play. (pref if geographically focused). Thus the top two of each conference/pod would then start play.

So if we continue with pods, we would see Tulsa and Memphis play Conference USA's UAB and Marshall. Lets say Tulsa and Marshall advance.

They have played 9 games. Now, they play the winners of the Mountain West/Sunbelt pairing in a seeded bracket.

Winner has played 11 games. Thus you even allow scheduling with a Power 5 as an OOC game.

Yeah, the losers would just schedule in a losers "bracket" or similar. I know I left out all the MACTION or Indies but just insert them as needed.

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If you make enough divisions, there can be 20 champs. Sounds


Dec 22, 2020, 10:42 AM

like a participation trophy solution to me...........

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I’m not calling for participation trophies.


Dec 22, 2020, 11:27 AM

I just don’t see the point in having group of 5 teams with no shot at playing for a national championship. It’s a huge waste of time for them, and they contribute little to power 5 schools.

It’s been established time and time again that undefeated teams like UCF, Cincinnati, Coastal, etc. can have perfect seasons and won’t even get close to making the playoffs. I don’t think that’s fair to them.

People like to say “they should play a better schedule” or “they should change conferences, but it’s not nearly that simple.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Help me understand why we can’t just have two new divisions


Dec 22, 2020, 11:24 AM

As I posted once before. We already have multiple divisions. And all of them but one have a “true” playoff but even in those divisions the same teams win every year! Actually there’s more dominance in all of the forms of athletics by a few teams then major college football. This is about money and TV and perceived fairness. Nothing else.

Vanderbilt, Marshall, Wake Forest, Duke, etc. etc. none of those teams have any business In the BCS. They should all be in the FCS. They willingly get their brains beat out so they can get more money.

Everything about the NFL is geared towards creating parity. Yet at any given period of time there are only a few teams at the top that dominate.

Pick any sport college or pro and I guarantee you any sports fan can tell you before the season starts with a very high degree of probability who the best teams are going to be at the end of the season.

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Re: Help me understand why we can’t just have two new divisions


Dec 22, 2020, 4:45 PM

There’s roughly $500 million split yearly. The group of 5 gets a cut of that money. If they split away they will lose that money. I doubt they could replace that money having their own tournament.

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Re: Help me understand why we can’t just have two new divisions


Dec 22, 2020, 11:51 PM

I might watch this new college league if they altered a few of the rules, like allowing players to dunk on the goal posts and a 5 point field goal from over 50 yards. Heck, it might even get better ratings than the power 5 games from my suggestions alone, they will rake in the cash.

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Re: Help me understand why we can’t just have two new divisions


Dec 23, 2020, 12:02 AM

And some of this Chit



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