Tiger Board Logo

Donor's Den General Leaderboards TNET coins™ POTD Hall of Fame Map FAQ
GIVE AN AWARD
Use your TNET coins™ to grant this post a special award!

W
50
Big Brain
90
Love it!
100
Cheers
100
Helpful
100
Made Me Smile
100
Great Idea!
150
Mind Blown
150
Caring
200
Flammable
200
Hear ye, hear ye
200
Bravo
250
Nom Nom Nom
250
Take My Coins
500
Ooo, Shiny!
700
Treasured Post!
1000

YOUR BALANCE
Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track
storage This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic
Replies: 52
| visibility 1

Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track


Dec 18, 2020, 9:44 AM

Happy friday crew: As a long-time Tigernet supporter and one of the core leaders of our effort to Save Clemson XC/Track, I wanted to update everyone and ask for your involvement with the other 31k people who have the signed our petition and the 3k+ folks(in only 6 weeks) that have signed up as active supporters/volunteers:

First off, Here's a quick link to all of our info, stats, go fund me, etc. It's also where you to go to sign up as a supporter:
https://linktr.ee/saveclemsonxctf?fbclid=IwAR3hAR-D6MNZXSuPdbLHt3T9Mq-QtW6wtZfUslAah-sEyzhJhhdaZG3YKB8
We are on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and would be honored if you joined our fight!!!!
https://twitter.com/saveclemsonxctf?s=21-main page
Here are the Gamecocks, in a video, even supporting us. Can you believe it? https://twitter.com/SaveClemsonXCTF/status/1338506535928885249


To highlight this drastic PERMANENT decision for a TEMPORARY problem (Covid revenue) We've organized a 501C3 Non-profit "Save Clemson XC/Track", organized committees, and are actively calling/emailing the President, BOT, State Legislature and other folks involved. We've compiled a rich history of the 110+ year old history of Clemson XC and Track.
179 All Americans
23 ACC Championships
22 Olympians
4 Olympic Gold Medalists
This proposed move eliminates 70% of Olympic Sports black male athletes @ Clemson
20% of black male athletes overall
3% of total black male undergraduates

We are clearly the most successful program on campus and we are making significant progress and it is only a matter of when, and not if, this decision by the AD will be overturned. Please understand that we are exploring all options in order to make sure our young men have an opportunity to compete. WE will not back down. We will not "go into that good night." We'd be honored with your support. Thank you.

Mike Beaudreau

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track


Dec 18, 2020, 9:59 AM

I have a suggestion for your supporters of reviving the men's XC/track program at Clemson.

Stop making personal attacks (such as the one in the Twitter post on your message) toward the people you are trying to convince to change a decision in your favor. I have seen MUCH MUCH worse posted than the slight toward President Clements in that twitter post.

I hope they can find a way to bring back the program permanently, but it is absolutely idiotic to personally attack the people you are trying to petition.

I hope you and your followers can choose to class it up a little bit and make the change you are driving toward.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track


Dec 18, 2020, 10:14 AM

Thank you for your suggestion TigerO. I am not sure of the post you are referring to but we have conducted ourselves with respect and dignity for all. But, how would you respond if you just got kicked in the face, like these young men just did with the elimination of their dreams?

For example, we had a peaceful protest and march with 200+ folks and the President didn't have the courtesy to even respond.
Would you like us to send him a care package? Well, we have. Dozens have mailed him all of their Clemson gear they own to make sure he knows the impact of this decision.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track


Dec 18, 2020, 10:35 AM

Surely as someone who seems to be leading this charge, you understand the position the school's president and any other members of the administration are in in terms of a verbal response to the situation.

If they say, "we hear you", then you will want to know what they are going to do to fix it.

If they say, "we are working on it", then you will want to know exactly what they are doing to fix it.

If they are at a point where nothing can be done in the short-term, then you definitely don't want to hear anything they would tell you.

For those reasons, I hope you understand why nobody who could have any impact on situation has spoken publicly about it.

As far as mailing loads and loads Clemson gear directly to President Clements, I'm not sure how anyone could take that as anything other than harassment. That would not be helpful to your cause one bit if I were the person who was the target of that action.

The posts (multiple) that I am referring to were made by someone who tagged himself as leading the charge to revive the program (I'm sure it wasn't you because you seem to be smart enough to realize it's a terrible take) who repeatedly called Dan Radakovich, President Clements, Dabo and other prominent figures at Clemson racists for cutting a program with such a high percentage of black athletes.

There were also multiple responses to each post that continued with the hateful comments.

One poster went so far as to question CJ Spiller's honor for not leading the charge and speaking out against Clemson and specifically Dabo as if Dabo is the one who cancelled the program.

I'm sure you realize that having "supporters" of the program make these sort of accusations publicly is hurtful toward bringing the program back.

I think the GoFundMe is a wonderful idea. I think the peaceful protest was a wonderful idea and a great way to show the numbers who are affected by the decision. I also think the petition shows that there are a huge number of people who are upset about the decision and who want to help fix it.

I personally have had several friends who have competed on the men's and women's track teams in the past. I know what that time meant to them and how the program allowed them to get a degree that has meant even more to them after their running careers were over.

I understand the push to bring back the program, but it must be done in a way that unifies all parties involved. Pushing hate and division will not move the needle in the right direction.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track


Dec 18, 2020, 10:50 AM

Thanks for the dialogue Tigers0. I am not sure of this post/s but if you could screen shot them to me on Tnet mail, I would appreciate it. I think it's logical that in any movement, you are going to have folks on the same "team" that approach the problem from a different perspective. I certainly don't agree with everyone of them. But the #'s don't lie. This action is disproportionately affecting Men of Color. There is no way around that. On the other spectrum, the Guys XC, while also 3 times the % of black make-up of the current student body, has the highest Team GPA of any team on campus, semester after semester. So at some point, something has to give here.

We have tried the soft approaches you mentioned below. We were not where we need to be to get the programs reinstated. This is a PERMANENT solution to a TEMPORARY problem. It's just that simple. It's fixable but you have to have 2 willing parties to sit down. We are 1. We are waiting on the other party.

Mike

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track


Dec 18, 2020, 11:10 AM

I don't have the screen shots and I realize that everyone is not going to approach things in a respectful (or even intelligent) manner.

That is why I suggested to you, as someone who seems to be connected, to try to clean it up in your group of supporters to improve your chances of success.

It is odd that you mention the outstanding academics of the cross country team.

The "Graduation Success Rate" article posted to Tigernet on November 17 shows Men's Cross Country/Track to be the second lowest rating ahead of only football with 115 players for all of the athletic teams in the school.

I think football speaks for itself in terms of revenue produced and why they are not considered when cuts such as these are made.

How can a team have the "highest GPA of any team on campus" and yet scores 2nd lowest in GSR? Do the track athletes bring it down that much, or is there something that I am missing about those numbers?

I naturally assumed that this data at least played some part in the decision of which non-revenue sport to cut.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

APR report


Dec 18, 2020, 11:19 AM

I am sorry Tiger O but that is just not correct. Here is the paste directly from the most recent APR report on 5/19/2020. Men's cross country has a perfect 1000 score.
Men's track is not tops but it's also far from the bottom. Tennis clearly at the bottom.

NCAA Division I 2018 - 2019 Academic Progress Rate Institutional Report

Institution: Clemson University Date of Report: 05/19/2020

Baseball 1,000 (109) N/A 1,000 (27) 1,000 1,000 995 1,000
Men's Basketball 975 (52) N/A 944 (14) 980 963 960 926
Men's Cross Country 1,000 (25) 1,000 1,000 (8) 1,000 1,000 1,000 1,000
Football 993 (396) N/A 997 (107) 990 1,000 985 994
Men's Golf 994 (39) N/A 1,000 (9) 987 1,000 987 1,000
Men's Soccer 992 (113) N/A 990 (29) 1,000 1,000 978 979
Men's Tennis 945 (47) N/A 935 (13) 951 913 938 957
Men's Track 976 (120) N/A 990 (28) 965 1,000 982 980
Women's Basketball 977 (56) N/A 1,000 (14) 991 1,000 962 1,000
Women's Cross Country 994 (40) N/A 1,000 (9) 1,000 1,000 987 1,000

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: APR report


Dec 18, 2020, 11:26 AM

So you are on Tigernet, saying that Tigernet is producing false information?

https://www.tigernet.com/update/Clemson-student-athletes-set-department-record-in-graduation-success-rate-36815


Your information is from May and mine is from November.

Clearly GSR and APR are 2 different things.

Again I ask the question, how can you be so good in GPA and APR but so bad (compared to the others) in GSR?

I don't know the answer.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: APR report


Dec 18, 2020, 11:32 AM

I see the issue. On the Tigernet article, the author combined the XC and Track teams for whatever reason, perhaps that's how it was sent from the Athletics Dept. As you probably know, The APR is the gold standard when it comes to NCAA kudos or sanctions if need be. Clearly, Men's XC and yes, even track are more than holding their own.

NCAA Division I 2018 - 2019 Academic Progress Rate Institutional Report

Institution: Clemson University Date of Report: 05/19/2020

Baseball 1,000 (109) N/A 1,000 (27) 1,000 1,000 995 1,000
Men's Basketball 975 (52) N/A 944 (14) 980 963 960 926
Men's Cross Country 1,000 (25) 1,000 1,000 (8) 1,000 1,000 1,000 1,000
Football 993 (396) N/A 997 (107) 990 1,000 985 994
Men's Golf 994 (39) N/A 1,000 (9) 987 1,000 987 1,000
Men's Soccer 992 (113) N/A 990 (29) 1,000 1,000 978 979
Men's Tennis 945 (47) N/A 935 (13) 951 913 938 957
Men's Track 976 (120) N/A 990 (28) 965 1,000 982 980
Women's Basketball 977 (56) N/A 1,000 (14) 991 1,000 962 1,000
Women's Cross Country 994 (40) N/A 1,000 (9) 1,000 1,000 987 1,000

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: APR report


Dec 18, 2020, 11:37 AM

I'm not sure why you posted the exact same information you just sent me.

Also, why does it matter if they are combined if neither is near the bottom of APR or GPA?

You would think if XC is tied for first and track is "not far behind" that wouldn't equate to 2nd to last.

I know APR is important.

I also know GSR is important enough to have an article written about Clemson setting records for the measurement.

Why is the GSR so much lower is all I am asking?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: APR report


Dec 18, 2020, 11:45 AM

What O? I don't know why you asking me why the reporter wrote what they did. I certainly don't know what GSR is based on and why they combined them as their are 3 separate programs. Perhaps the Athletic Dept did it to bolster their case for their decision that was just made 12 days prior? I would hate to think that but one never knows anymore?

My data is factual. The article, I have no idea.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track


Dec 18, 2020, 10:42 AM [ in reply to Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track ]

These are quotes from your tweets:

"Clemson University has a history of exploiting black labor for profit"

DRad "has a history of these types of actions"

"Grow a heart"

"Do your JOB and find a way to make this work without destroying dreams"

"Too bad their contributions are no longer valued"

"Kicked out of the Clemson family"

I would say that there is a distinct lack of respect for the Clemson administration, including singling out the President and AD.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

And I believe TigersO is referring to this in the tweet at


Dec 18, 2020, 11:01 AM

the beginning of your post:



We wish we could say the same for @ClemsonPrez


Something , something catching vinegar or honey something, something

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Brad Brownell: Only Larry freaking Shyatt has a WORSE overall winning percentage among Clemson basketball coaches since 1975. Let that sink in. It's Larry Shyatt & then Brad Brownell.


It's ironic that the OP has a problem with the


Dec 18, 2020, 11:23 AM [ in reply to Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track ]

"racial inequality" when a team with 3x the proportion of black students on its team gets cut, as if the decision was racially motivated, but seemingly had no problem with the "racial inequality" present on a team for years with a much lower proportion of white students compared to the student body.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Which is why to all clear thinking and rational people


Dec 18, 2020, 11:51 AM

Playing the race card is stupid and a bad idea. Because people selectively use it and often in a situation like this where inequality had been ignored forever now suddenly it can be used in their favor and they pull it out their pocket.

And per usual it’s only used when it’s black people being hurt.

Diversity, or the lack of, is only a problem when it’s an all male or an all white situation.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track


Dec 18, 2020, 10:02 AM

Honestly, it seems that trying to save the programs is a lost cause. The emailed DRad as soon as the announcement was made and the response I got made it sound like everyone (AD/Prez/BOT) was in agreement and there would be no considering reinstatement. It was a “sorry, but we had to” kind of response.

It’s very sad. For several years I attended most home meets and traveled to the ACC’s and Nationals. Haven’t been able to recently though. It was at a meet that I met a new position coach for the FB team...Dabo. I would rather see baseball get the ax.

True athletics. First to the finish. Highest/longest jump/throw. No BS.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross-Progress is being made


Dec 18, 2020, 10:09 AM

Hey Noodle. Definitely not a lost cause. We are making significant progress. It's important to note that this was not a BOT/Prez decision. The AD made them aware but they had no say, if you will, in the decision. Since they have now been engaged, we are making progress. The legislature is now involved. There is more coming. Please sign up on the linktree so we can keep you engaged and informed:

https://linktr.ee/saveclemsonxctf?fbclid=IwAR3hAR-D6MNZXSuPdbLHt3T9Mq-QtW6wtZfUslAah-sEyzhJhhdaZG3YKB8

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track


Dec 18, 2020, 10:42 AM [ in reply to Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track ]

Noodle,

I understand your desire and attachment to one of your favorite Clemson sports programs.

I do not understand your idea to cut baseball as it makes no financial sense.

Baseball is in most cases a sport that loses money for universities. This is why you have seen it cut by Furman.

Baseball at Clemson however is AT WORST a break even program. In most years baseball brings in a small amount of revenue to the athletic program.

Clemson is not going to cut a sport that is helping their financial situation even if it's only a small amount.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

It’s also the third most attended sport by fans at Clemson


Dec 18, 2020, 10:58 AM

And the second most important and popular sport in South Carolina after football! Baseball is to kids in South Carolina what basketball is to kids in North Carolina, Kentucky, and Indiana.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track


Dec 18, 2020, 11:00 AM [ in reply to Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track ]

I am not advocating for any programs being cut. We have a spending problem, that the AD oversees, that's the issue. FYI: Baseball actually loses over a Million dollars a year, just so you know. Track and field is actually the cheapest, in cost, per athlete, of any sport at Clemson. Just thought you would like to know.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track


Dec 18, 2020, 11:23 AM

I understand you are not advocating for cuts. I was responding to Noodle only.

Every university in the nation has a spending problem in athletics because if you don't keep spending the money then you don't get coaches, players, or fans to continue to sign up to participate.

That's why year like this one hurt so bad because most athletic departments are constantly living on the edge of making things work in order to keep up with their competition.


I would love to know where you got that information on baseball as I have seen it stated and written in numerous places that it is not the case.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Clemson baseball loses a significant amount of money


Dec 18, 2020, 11:26 AM [ in reply to Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track ]

every year, despite its popularity.

The only sports that make money at Clemson, and at virtually every school, is football and men's basketball.

I'm certainly not advocating for Clemson to cut baseball, just wanted to clarify one of your points.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track


Dec 18, 2020, 12:59 PM [ in reply to Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track ]

I don’t seem to see where I advocated for the elimination of baseball...

If it were my choice, I would cut baseball before XC/TF.

Directly from Clemson, the 2018-2019 numbers comparison:
Baseball: expenses: 3.4 mil, total revenue: 1.9 mil
Men’s XC/TF: expenses: 2.2 mil, total revenue: 1.1 mil.

Now, what were you saying again?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track


Dec 18, 2020, 1:07 PM

Forgot to add: I don’t want any programs cut and really believe a school the size of Clemson should be ADDING sports.

I believe we are now at the bare minimum to remain Division 1? I know I read that somewhere...

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

You are right. This would put as the minimum 16 sports***


Dec 18, 2020, 1:43 PM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I'm not exactly in favor of getting rid of these sports


Dec 18, 2020, 10:09 AM

but I don't like how pretty much every post about it on social media has to make it a racial/racism thing.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


in agreement


Dec 18, 2020, 10:17 AM

I appreciate the feedback and am in agreement JD. Most of our messages have NOT focused on the racial issue. Most have been Videos of support as the Twitter feed shows.

But we also can't run away from the #'s:
70% of Olympic sports black male athletes
20% of black male athletes
3% of black male undergraduates

Deleted....

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Exactly! Using the current division in this country .....


Dec 18, 2020, 10:30 AM [ in reply to I'm not exactly in favor of getting rid of these sports ]

And anything regarding race and racism is simply wrong and he goes against everything I believe as an American but also as a Clemson graduate. I was at Clemson in the 80s and I had a lot of friends on the track team. Had I not had a car accident in high school I would’ve played football and ran track/cross country at Clemson in the 80s. I hate to see this happening, but I don’t want to see these type of tactics used! as my mother taught me, two wrongs do not make a right!

I’m a little surprised Dabo hasn’t publicly offered $1 million to save the program. We all love football and yes it drives the bus, but that money could Easily come out of the football budget, which has more than doubled over the past 10 years.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Have you tried to get Deandrea Hopkins on bored?

1

Dec 18, 2020, 10:17 AM

That seems to work pretty well.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Have you tried to get Deandrea Hopkins on bored? Good ?


Dec 18, 2020, 10:19 AM

Hey ROW, Yes we have. BUT the football players(and alumni) have reportedly been put on a GAG order. They were instructed, in a formal meeting, not to say a thing about our programs being cut.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Come on man!


Dec 18, 2020, 11:22 AM

You are starting to lose credibility the more you post.

Anyone with two brain cells knows that D-hop has a mind of his own and no one‘s going to put him on a short leash. If he wants to make a stink about something he’ll make a stink about something. He doesn’t even claim Clemson University when he’s introduced in NFL games. No one, not even Dabo Swinney, can put him on a gag order! And if you have ever seen his Twitter you know that’s the case!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Uhmmmmm - this just took a whacky conspiracy hard turn....


Dec 18, 2020, 11:23 AM [ in reply to Re: Have you tried to get Deandrea Hopkins on bored? Good ? ]

there was a formal meeting with multi-millionaires who can say & do anything they want (and they usually do)and they were put on a GAG order to not talk about track & field and Cross Country ? ? ? ?


uhhhhhh - OK.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Brad Brownell: Only Larry freaking Shyatt has a WORSE overall winning percentage among Clemson basketball coaches since 1975. Let that sink in. It's Larry Shyatt & then Brad Brownell.


Pretty sure he meant the meeting was with current Clemson football players


Dec 18, 2020, 11:32 AM

But he did in fact also bring X Clemson football players currently in the NFL into the mix and everyone knows those guys have their own mind especially our favorite wide receiver that we all love but also love to hate when he runs his mouth and fingers on social media!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Uhmmmmm - this just took a whacky conspiracy hard turn....


Dec 18, 2020, 11:37 AM [ in reply to Uhmmmmm - this just took a whacky conspiracy hard turn.... ]

The meeting was with the current team. Of course, there are multiple graduates now on staff with the football team, which is not a bad thing. Word spreads... I was simply stating what we have confirmed with 4 different sources. You are more than welcomed to believe what you want to believe.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Do you honestly believe that the track and cross country


Dec 18, 2020, 11:29 AM [ in reply to Re: Have you tried to get Deandrea Hopkins on bored? Good ? ]

teams are so important that the football team had a meeting about it? Really?

Sorry, but this isn't a blip on the radar outside of the track and cross country world.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track


Dec 18, 2020, 10:23 AM

This is coming from a father whose son was on the Clemson Track team. While I hate cutting the sport I think the bigger picture is the survival of Clemson in general. Covid presents trying times. It's hard to replace a $70M deficit in revenue (or whatever that number is).
Getting politicians involved is not the Clemson way. That sounds more like what they do at UofSC and that is why they have so many problems there.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Re: Update on Save Clemson Cross Country/Track-good point


Dec 18, 2020, 10:31 AM

Thank you Tiger Contractor.

Fortunately, the financial situation is not as dire as you may have feared. Our forensic accounting committee is pouring through the numbers and it is not nearly as drastic as the AD has alluded to.

Furthermore, you should take a listen to the most recent BOT mtg if you hadn't had a chance yet. Enrollment is up for the Spring and overall the outlook isn't nearly as negative as once feared, which is great. They even moved up the construction/addition to Daniel HAll to the spring to take advantage of the rosier outlook.

The same logic applies here. This was a Permanent decision to a temporary problem. I'd be happy to discuss more over the phone if you'd like? Feel free to reach out.

Mike
(770) 855-9159

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Have you guys reached out to Mark Packer?


Dec 18, 2020, 10:44 AM

Packer has deep and wide connections but he can also do something few people can do which is reach the fan based and a much broader audience.

Actually, have you reached out to the press in general? Clemson beat reporters at various news outlets. The Greenville news, the state paper, the Charleston post and courier?

Have you called sport shows like Phil Kornblut and Bobby Hartin?

If you want a lot of signatures on that petition and to reach alumni and the general public, it’s through the media that that’s going to happen.

But as a couple of people have posted, making this racial or based on personal attacks will hurt more than help and turn people off that might be willing and able to help.!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Have you guys reached out to Mark Packer?


Dec 18, 2020, 11:12 AM

Yes Lowcountry we have. We've reached out to anyone imaginable. There have been a few local articles and even Sports Illustrated and the NY Daily News did articles.

As I mentioned, you are always going to have people in any movement that are more on the extremes, if you will. The vast majority of our dialogue has been persistent but respectful.

The fact is it's going to take continued pushing to get the powers to be to correct this. And we will not rest or back down until it is.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

That sounds great but


Dec 18, 2020, 12:09 PM

Have you called in live during the Bobby Hartin show between 3 PM and 6 PM Monday through Friday here in Charleston as well as the South Carolina sports talk with Phil Kornblut between 6 PM and 8 PM Monday through Friday in Columbia but broadcast state wide.

Both of them stream on the Internet and have callers from outside of South Carolina. They have huge audiences and this would reach a lot of people if you called during the show and talk to them live on the air about the issue.

You said you have reached out to them. That’s not what I’m talking about and it’s nowhere near as powerful as calling during the show because both shows or caller based and letting the audience hear you talk about the issue. That’s the power!

And have you personally talked to Mark packer or has someone At the very top of your group had a personal conversation with Mark packer?

Yes or no?

Because he is the guy in the media and the guy tapped into the Clemson network that could truly get things mobilized if you got him on board.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: That sounds great but


Dec 18, 2020, 12:32 PM

Those are some great suggestions LowCountry and I appreciate them. Do you know Mark Packer's #? I Will personally call.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: That sounds great but


Dec 18, 2020, 12:52 PM

No. But he’s on Twitter and Instagram and has the morning show, Packer and Durham (ACCN and XM) and the afternoon call in radio show in Charlotte.

He is not a hard guy to reach. I’m sure you can reach him on social media or easily find an email address for him as well as calling his TV/ radio shows.

The best bet to reach him as far as his shows go is the afternoon radio show because the morning show they don’t really take many callers.

He played golf at Clemson and was once Tim Bourret’s roommate.

FYI he has personal social media accounts and every show he does has a social media account so there are plenty of ways to reach him and again I’m sure you can find an email address for him. Google his name as well as the different shows that he does and you will be able to reach him. If you got him on board you could sit back and let that man go to work!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: That sounds great but


Dec 18, 2020, 1:49 PM

Got it LowCountry. I appreciate the advice and will follow suit

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

While I admire the effort to save a sport you love


Dec 18, 2020, 11:14 AM

I find the public attacks on Clemson's administration to be childish and uncalled for.

Canceling cross country, track, or any other sport was not a personal decision. I am confident that canceling sports is not what Dan Radakovich or President Clements wanted to do. Unfortunately, varsity sports require money to pay for facilities, coaching salaries, player equipment costs, travel, and scholarships. Due to significant budget shortfalls this year due to COVID-19, cuts had to happen. I'm sorry for the coaches, student-athletes, and fans who are impacted, but something has to give when the funds aren't there.

How do you propose an athletic department faced with an inability to continue supporting all of the current varsity sports handle the situation? I'm sorry, but cross country and track are likely candidates to be cut because they bring in very little money, lose way more than they make, and attract very little interest from alumni and fans. That's the truth.

With that said, I hope you and your group find a way to bring back cross country and track. Just please agree to do so with more professionalism and tact moving forward. Thank you in advance.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: While I admire the effort to save a sport you love


Dec 18, 2020, 11:28 AM

Actually Judge, this does appear to be a personal decision. The AD cut Men's Cross Country when he was Asst. AD @ South Carolina. He also gutted the XC and track programs while he was at GA Tech. You can look it up, if you don't believe me.

I will not agree that there has been some pattern of publicly attacking the Admin. There are always folks, in any movement, that are on the extremes. What if you spent, your entire life working your Tail off to get into your dream school and then find out, with no notice, that your program, that you've devoted all your effort to, is gone? I would be a little upset too.

As far as financials go, Track and Field/XC is by far, the least expensive Men's sport at Clemson. Look it up. Baseball, Soccer, Tennis, they all lose more $$$ per athlete than track/xc. So why then cut Track/XC?

Academics: you can see below that XC is a perfect 1000. Men's Track, is not perfect, but certainly far from the bottom either.

NCAA Division I 2018 - 2019 Academic Progress Rate Institutional Report

Institution: Clemson University Date of Report: 05/19/2020

Baseball 1,000 (109) N/A 1,000 (27) 1,000 1,000 995 1,000
Men's Basketball 975 (52) N/A 944 (14) 980 963 960 926
Men's Cross Country 1,000 (25) 1,000 1,000 (8) 1,000 1,000 1,000 1,000
Football 993 (396) N/A 997 (107) 990 1,000 985 994
Men's Golf 994 (39) N/A 1,000 (9) 987 1,000 987 1,000
Men's Soccer 992 (113) N/A 990 (29) 1,000 1,000 978 979
Men's Tennis 945 (47) N/A 935 (13) 951 913 938 957
Men's Track 976 (120) N/A 990 (28) 965 1,000 982 980
Women's Basketball 977 (56) N/A 1,000 (14) 991 1,000 962 1,000
Women's Cross Country 994 (40) N/A 1,000 (9) 1,000 1,000 987 1,000

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Good luck in your efforts...


Dec 18, 2020, 11:44 AM

Because, you're not getting anywhere on style points. Pretty abysmal effort and double-talk.

2024 orange level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Good luck in your efforts...Thank you


Dec 18, 2020, 11:48 AM

Thank you. As a volunteer, I appreciate the atta-boy.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

So you're telling us that DRad has a personal beef against


Dec 18, 2020, 12:05 PM [ in reply to Re: While I admire the effort to save a sport you love ]

running sports?

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: So you're telling us that DRad has a personal beef against


Dec 18, 2020, 12:24 PM

Sure. I am saying I think that factored into this decision. I think the larger issue is that he felt he could save $$$ and pad his title 9 numbers by eliminating these 3 programs at one time. It was the easiest decision for him to make, in my opinion. I don't think it's coincidence that he has done taken similar tack at his prior places.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: So you're telling us that DRad has a personal beef against


Dec 18, 2020, 12:27 PM

To be clear you are referring to cross country, track, and field as 3 separate programs?

I could see calling them 2 programs if you think it helps your cause but not 3.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: So you're telling us that DRad has a personal beef against


Dec 18, 2020, 12:36 PM

Hey O, It's not just me that is referring to them as 3, it's the NCAA. And that is why XC, Outdoor t+f, and Indoor t+f are considered 3 sports. It's also why they are targeted for elimination by AD's because it inflates the #'s of male participants since each sport is counted by the NCAA per season for your male #'s. I hope that makes sense?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: So you're telling us that DRad has a personal beef against


Dec 18, 2020, 1:01 PM

I’ve never heard it put that way. I’m a little confused. There is men’s track and field. Then there is cross country. That is two different teams or sports. When you talk about indoor versus outdoor that’s not different teams that’s just different seasons. There’s the indoor track season and the outdoor track season. That’s why the NCAA looks at them a little differently. It’s two different seasons, but not two different teams. And the indoor season is track only at least I’m pretty sure it’s track only and it’s limited. For example, there’s the full tiger band that plays at football games, then there’s the small band that plays at basketball games. It’s not two different bands.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: So you're telling us that DRad has a personal beef against


Dec 18, 2020, 1:56 PM

I agree. It doesn't make logical sense to me. But you can see the NCAA considers them separate programs and dings US in Title 9 #'s. See below. I wish I could paste the link and whole report but can't get it to link correctly.


Reporting Institution: Clemson University Reporting Year (FY): 2019

NCAA Membership Financial Reporting System Page 2 of 79
Sport Men's Teams Only Women's Teams Only Mixed Teams

Soccer x x
Softball x
Swimming and Diving x
Tennis x x
Track, Indoor x x
Track, Outdoor x x
Triathlon
Volleyball x
Water Polo
Wrestling
Others

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Replies: 52
| visibility 1
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic