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CU Guru [1741]
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Anyone who says MJ isn’t the GOAT is mistaken.
May 29, 2018, 1:34 PM
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MJ was a guard in the era of big men. And some of y’all don’t think he could hang in todays up-and-down NBA?! He was the foreshadowing of things to come. And all he ever did was win: college, Olympics, pros.
He changed the NBA, and to this day, each of his six NBA Finals ranks among the highest rated in NBA history. Why? Because we all wanted to witness true greatness- the kind of greatness that comes with certainty. In six trips to the Finals the Bulls were the favorite six times. They dominated six teams times. MJ won the MVP six straight times.
MJ in his prime was simply unstoppable. And he did it with the team around him. Only Scottie Pippen ever made an All-Star team when MJ played with the Bulls.
What is wrong with people?!
Lebron James? To call this guy the GOAT is to make excuses for his failures. He’s in his prime and got stretched by a Celtics team without its best player. Also see: 2011 Finals when Lebron averaged less points than Jason Terry in losing to an old less talented Mavericks team.
Bill Russell and Wilt? Played in a begone era. Great players who would be role players at best in 2018.
Larry Bird? Great players. Bird was MJ before MJ was MJ. And Magic was Lebron. Both played on phenomenal teams. Can’t take much away from either of them. But...both of them have admitted and continue to say MJ is the GOAT.
Kareem: Most underrated super star player. But like Wilt and Russell, he’d be a nothing in this NBA.
White guys like Bob Cousy shouldn’t even be part of the discussion. They played in a league with 10 teams and was choked of talent due to segregation in the college ranks.
MJ is the best, and it’s not close.
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CU Guru [1697]
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wow...
May 29, 2018, 1:59 PM
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I don't know who pissed you off, but I am so glad that you both are behind keyboards and not face to face...
but as for MJ, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Bill, Cousy, etc... the GOAT is always just a discussion because the metrics and eras especially in basketball have too much variance to really come to a logical conclusion... be secure in your opinion but know that others may differ, and that is ok...
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All-In [48078]
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Cousy would be lucky to be on a NBA roster today.*****
May 29, 2018, 9:59 PM
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CU Guru [1697]
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maybe if he played today like he learned the game in the 50s
May 31, 2018, 1:10 PM
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I just think that a player like Cousy, if he grew up in a different time would learn the game according to the time that he lived in. but that also means creating a theory based on nothing. would Steve Nash play in the '60s the same way he played in the 2000s? probably not because the game was taught and learned differently in the 60's. Nash learned the game in the 80's.
MJ crafted his game after Dr. J and David Thompson, 2 of the few high flying, slick moves wings of the 70's but along came the 80's and 90's where you had more high flying, slick moves wings who all looked up to Dr. J and David Thompson, guys like Dominique Wilkins, Kenny Walker, Clyde Drexler, Darrel Griffith, then along came Vince Carter and those guys...
I just think that a lot of the guys could adapt to different eras, some successfully, some not so successfully, but Wilt, that dude could play in any era...
I hate that most people under 40 don't realize that MJ didn't do anything that Dr J didn't do as well, and Doc did it first: free throw line dunk, switch off from one side of the basket to score on the other side, 4th quarter scoring take over to win games, unstoppable on a fast break...
I wish these younger guys would really dig into Wilt as high schooler, that dude played other sports and was all-city in track... heck, wasn't Jim Brown a lacrosse all-american at Syracuse? without context, some of these posters are clueless
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1st Rounder [618]
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The CU Guru
May 29, 2018, 2:06 PM
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certainly has a long way to go in his knowledge about basketball.
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Varsity [237]
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Re: Anyone who says MJ isn’t the GOAT is mistaken.
May 29, 2018, 4:52 PM
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In your opinion. MJ was a good one along with others. Kobe, Russell, Abdul Jabar, Magic, Bird. But for those of you that can actually sit there and knock Lebron and what he has done is quite simply insane and uninformed. Straight out of high school- works 24/7 on his game, stays out of trouble, carries most of his teams on his back alone, never injured , never seems tired. Took the "could not lose Celtics" down against all odds, mostly and again by himself. Is he the best of all time? Don't know about that nor does it really matter, but he is in the conversation no matter what any of you thinks. You should really do your homework before you run your mouth on a subject you obviously know little if anything about.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Anyone who says MJ isn’t the GOAT is mistaken.
May 29, 2018, 5:08 PM
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In his prime?? What was MJ doing his 15th year in the NBA? TIA. MJ was amazing and is the goat but to not put LBj up there is just denying greatness. You act like MJ never lost dude. He only got to the finals 6 times. It is great that he won when he got there tho but he also had the greatest coach in history on his side. Now when Lebron won he also had a dang good coach as well. It takes more than just one player to win.
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Legend [16120]
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To be fair, MJ played 3 years of college too***
May 29, 2018, 5:19 PM
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110%er [6280]
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Re: To be fair, MJ played 3 years of college too***
May 29, 2018, 5:23 PM
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This is true but a college season is not near as rough as nba. Michael scoring 40 when he was 40 is nothing short of remarkable.
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Legend [16120]
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I'm not attempting to compare it, I'm saying you have to
May 29, 2018, 5:30 PM
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take it into consideration when saying Lebron is in year 15...Jprdan didn't enter the NBA as a teenager, Lebron did, adjust accordingly...I also like how you seem to overlook the advances in sports medicine and training/nutrition...Jordan was at the beginning of that, but he didn't have a hyperbaric chamber and the team still fed them hotdogs...Just out of curiosity, what year were you born?
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110%er [6280]
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Re: I'm not attempting to compare it, I'm saying you have to
May 29, 2018, 5:39 PM
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I have said before I didn't watch MJ in his prime. I was born in 92. I have seen replays of games and highlights ofcourse tho. I'm not arguing that MJ isn't the goat just that LBJ is too. What year were you born? Ofcourse you will be biased on what years you watched a player. MJ didn't have the same medical staffs we have now ofcourse. He also didn't play 15 NBA seasons in a row and still be going to the finals. He was increadble gifted and really didn't need the medical staff. He could go play 36 holes of golf, stay up all night, and then come score 30+ in an NBA game when he was mid 30s. He is one of a kind for sure. He has many features that are better than LBJ but also many that are not as good. They are different players in different eras. Both deserve respect.
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Legend [16120]
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I asked about your age because you seem to lack context
May 29, 2018, 5:56 PM
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when discussing LeBron as compared to earlier generations of "Modern Basketball"...I saw Magic/Larry and MJ play in their primes as well as watching LeBron and I fully grasp the obstacles that were in their paths...Bird quit drinking beer during the season and it propelled him to 3 straight MVPs, Michael played 36 holes before a Finals game...LeBron didn't play defense this year in the regular season because he was trying to conserve his energy...HeII, he doesn't even let Cleveland practice anymore because he is saving every second of wear and tear he has left for the games...You only seem to see half of the argument and you have a recency bias
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110%er [6280]
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Re: I asked about your age because you seem to lack context
May 29, 2018, 9:30 PM
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So what is ur argument? Lebron is smart to do what he does. It does not make MJ or Byrd any better that they did what they did off of the court. I am sure I have a recency bias as you have a nostalgic bias.
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Legend [16120]
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what is my bias? Nobody champions the modern NBA more than
May 29, 2018, 10:55 PM
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me...Like it's my fault I've seen twice the basketball you have
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110%er [6280]
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Re: what is my bias? Nobody champions the modern NBA more than
May 30, 2018, 10:20 AM
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Okay bud. You are just exactly right and the world should go with what you say. You have zero bias and are the perfect human. Lebron just isn't on Jordan's level because you think so. Have a good day CM. Open your eyes.
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Legend [16120]
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Link to where I said the NBA was better back then? I'm sorry
May 30, 2018, 12:46 PM
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you can't back up your allegation, but your recency bias is on full display...I'm not the one who watched a you tube clip and tried to make a comparison, I've actually lived through both of their primes...Most of the people who saw both give the nod to MJ...Because we have the information to make an intelligent comparison...You obviously lack that...In 20 years, when some snot-nosed punk tries to tell you how much better some current player is than LeBron, I hope you will remember this discussion and wonder how he could judge somebody he didn't even watch play in real time
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110%er [6280]
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110%er [6280]
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Legend [16120]
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I think LeBron is the 2nd best , I just happen to think
May 29, 2018, 5:57 PM
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Jordan was better
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110%er [6280]
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Re: I think LeBron is the 2nd best , I just happen to think
May 29, 2018, 9:34 PM
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That is perfectly fine with me. Nobody can really ever know who is better. Lebron is the best of this ers as MJ was the best of his. I wish I could have been able to watch Jordan in his prime. Both are so different it is hard to say who the best is. I think James is better in some aspects as Jordan is better in others.
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All-In [38422]
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Re: I think LeBron is the 2nd best , I just happen to think
May 30, 2018, 3:39 AM
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The difference between Michael Jordan and every single other professional basketball player that has EVER played , is that none of them were , or ever will be Michael Jordan from Wilmington , NC .
For me , and I am 49 years old and a lifelong participant and fan of the game … is that with MJ you had a complete star . He had no weaknesses at all . He was the best offensive player ever , he was top 3 best defensive players ever ( some would argue the best ) and when he wanted to take the guy in front of him he did . Plain and simple , he was unstoppable .
There isn't an "era" argument in my estimation , because I believe MJ would dominate any decade you dropped him into , and that includes the "modern times" that so many think he would somehow be ill equipped to handle.. a laughable assertion . His height ? He absolutely truck-dunked on the likes of Olajuwan and Ewing . His speed for a 6'6" guard was incredible , he could create his own shot any time he needed to . He was the greatest , and he still is . He will always be the best .
I honestly don't see how this is even in a debate . Unless there is just plain bias toward MJ because he was a Heel , or because he was so flashy or whatever someone would want to say about the guy , he owns the title of GOAT … and I really think he may be the greatest competitive athlete I have ever seen in professional sports as a whole . He was a marvel to watch . He just never quit hustling and he never lost on the biggest stage .
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110%er [6280]
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Re: I think LeBron is the 2nd best , I just happen to think
May 30, 2018, 7:38 AM
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I agree with what you say. I don't dislike MJ at all. The fact is he isn't as big or strong as LBJ. Their numbers are very similar. Lebron can play 1-5. He can take it to the rack on anybody. I do think MJ would be great today ofcourse. I just don't see how it isn't a debate unless you are a lebron hater which you say he is the second best so you must not hate him. The man is unstoppable. Lebron doesn't have competitive drive MJ did but he has grown it a good bit. He is more physically gifted and that makes up for some of that.
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All-In [38422]
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Re: I think LeBron is the 2nd best , I just happen to think
May 30, 2018, 9:12 AM
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I love Lebron's game man , he is a fantastic talent . I guess the real hitch in it is how he fades away sometimes in the moment where he shouldn't . I see him take plays off . I see him get washed out in big games and in championship games . Passing to teammates when everyone and their uncle Bob know that he should be taking the shot .
He's certainly the best player active at the moment , and his accolades are extensive... but a player like MJ in my view is a cut above , he simply never fell apart ...he never let another player best him and he NEVER disappeared in the clutch , EVER . The guy was just the best basketball player ever in my opinion , and I don't even entertain that there is anyone that can be held in comparison .
No way do I dislike LBJ as he is phenomenal , but he'll never be like Mike.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: I think LeBron is the 2nd best , I just happen to think
May 30, 2018, 10:24 AM
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So losing 3 straight conference finals is being clutch? When lebron plays great but loses it is fading away?
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CU Guru [1878]
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All-TigerNet [13035]
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I have two problems with that statement
May 30, 2018, 11:22 AM
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1) I don't think it's true. MJ shot like 33% for his career vs Lebron at a shade over 34%. Has not being a great 3-point shooter been bad for Lebron? I'll hazard a guess and say no. Like Lebron, Jordan was the best in the league at getting to the rim and finishing when he played, and that's absolutely still viable today. Honestly i think it's even more viable in today's game because the floor is so spread out.
2) If Jordan had prioritized it more I'm sure he could've developed a better 3pt shot. When he got older and less explosive he was able to develop that devastating turn around, fade-away jumper that he could consistently make out to 15-18ft. IMO that was a more difficult skill to develop than a 3pt shot.
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Head Coach [760]
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Re: Anyone who says MJ isn’t the GOAT is mistaken.
May 29, 2018, 5:12 PM
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I must admit, as a guy that grew up in the era of Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, today's NBA ranks right up there with Women's basketball in my book.
I watched game 5 of the Celtics/Cavs series and could not believe I was watching game 5 of the conference finals. Missed layup after missed layup after missed dunk. Absolutely terrible basketball.
Generally NBA teams of today struggle with defense and foul shooting, and they play by much different rules than they did in the Bird, Magic, MJ era. If Lebron had crossed through the lane in game 5 of the conference finals he would have been smashed into the front row of seats by Kevin McHale and Robert Parish, and let's not even bring up what Dennis Rodman, Rick Mahorn, and rest of the Pistons would have done to him.
Certainly not saying that the guys playing today are not great athletes. These guys are supreme athletes in a bad game.
Unfortunately we will never be able to see Lebron and MJ on the same court together so it is pointless to make judgments about the games of either player if they had played at a different time period.
The NBA has seen a slight resurgence in popularity, but in my opinion it is only because of the issues we are currently seeing in the NFL, and the fact that guys under the age of 25 do not know how the NBA used to be.
Just my opinion on the matter.
Just my opinion.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Anyone who says MJ isn’t the GOAT is mistaken.
May 29, 2018, 5:29 PM
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Lmao dude LeBron wouldn't get knocked around by anybody.
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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Lebron would be crying like a baby
May 29, 2018, 7:07 PM
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And wouldn't be able to move after playing a conference finals game against the "bad boy" Pistons. You dont understand, they lived to ruin your life and wanted to intentionally hurt you and take you out of the game. He wouldn't stand a chance
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Legend [16120]
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They would have definitely gotten in his head like the PP/KG
May 29, 2018, 9:25 PM
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Celts did
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Lebron would be crying like a baby
May 29, 2018, 9:37 PM
[ in reply to Lebron would be crying like a baby ] |
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They would be hurting if they tried to act that way to Lebron. You must not understand how physically dominant LBJ is compared to the bad boy Pistons. I would love to see it tho. Lebron is his best when he gets mad.
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Legend [16120]
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LeBron hasn't faced anybody as physical in his career...They
May 29, 2018, 11:00 PM
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had legislated that stuff out of the League by the time you could talk...LeBron hasn't faced off against anybody in his entire career, much less took a swing...Stern had all but banned that before LeBron got to 6th grade
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110%er [6280]
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Re: LeBron hasn't faced anybody as physical in his career...They
May 30, 2018, 7:41 AM
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So why do you assume he wouldn't handle it or dis it back out. Just because basketball was more physical when some of you were young does not mean players today couldn't handle it. It just blows my mind how anybody over the age of 40 always thinks sports were so much better and tougher back then.
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110%er [5121]
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Maybe because he cries every time he gets touched?
May 30, 2018, 9:35 AM
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It just blows my mind how anyone under the age of 40 always thinks sports are so much better and tougher today.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Maybe because he cries every time he gets touched?
May 30, 2018, 10:27 AM
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So when Morris tried to pull him down the other night and he still made the layup he started crying? Sports are better now than back then. It is the way of life dude. Athletes get better and better. When I am 40 sports will be much better than they are now.
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Legend [16120]
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Anybody that watched the 80s knows he would have been
May 30, 2018, 12:40 PM
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picking up teeth if he tried that against the Pistons or the Celtics...Ask Rambis and Pip what going for a lay-up used to be like before Stern cleaned it up...I've never seen somebody so proud of their ignorance before
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110%er [5121]
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Sports ar different now...not necessarily better. HTH.***
May 30, 2018, 3:26 PM
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Athletes are more athletic and better at the sports.
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110%er [5121]
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that, my friend, is just your opinion. I can’t stand to watch today’s
May 30, 2018, 5:29 PM
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pro b-ball. Its not even fun to watch most of the time. Today’s game is much worse, IMO, than anything from the 70’s-90’s.
Your boy Lebron May go down as the GOAT but don’t expect those of us who have been fans of the game for more than a minute to automatically agree. You’ll never convince me to place Lebron ahead of MJ or Wilt...the greatest of his era, sure, but not “of all time”.
Peace.
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Legend [16120]
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Where did I say it was better moron? It certainly was more
May 30, 2018, 12:35 PM
[ in reply to Re: LeBron hasn't faced anybody as physical in his career...They ] |
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physical, and that is NOT up for debate...In the 80s they had real fights, things that would get people suspended months now...But you wouldn't know any of that because you only stater watching in the early 2000s....You keep trying to push this narrative that isn't there guy, I watch more basketball than you do now...Two years ago you didn't even know who Chris Paul was
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Where did I say it was better moron? It certainly was more
May 30, 2018, 2:38 PM
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I watched Chris Paul play in college at Wake DA. So be so prideful and act like you know it all. Ofcourse the NBA was more physical but acting like the most physical basketball player in the league today couldn't take it to the rack against the bad boy Pistons is just something I don't understand. Having fights on the basketball court makes you look like a little kid not a hard body.
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Legend [16120]
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I don't think I know it all, but I #### sure know more than
May 30, 2018, 3:41 PM
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you do about the NBA...And you kept trying to make Cornell Powell as CP3 a thing, care to walk that back?
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110%er [6280]
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All-TigerNet [10901]
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So Wilt would be a role player today? You are hilarious!!***
May 29, 2018, 9:19 PM
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: So Wilt would be a role player today? You are hilarious!!***
May 30, 2018, 2:27 PM
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I also found that a most revealing and hilarious statement. OP has no clue, Wilt was the most athletic big man to ever play the game, he would dominate the current leagues bigs.
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All-In [45624]
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Michael Jordan
May 30, 2018, 5:54 AM
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Didn't play for Clemson. Take your Tarhole to the Prozone. Without Scottie P and H Grant there wouldn't be any championships.
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110%er [5121]
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Comparing players from different eras gets you nowhere.
May 30, 2018, 9:27 AM
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They really aren’t comparable...waste of time.
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CU Guru [1878]
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I love how LeBron gets knocked for going to game 7
May 30, 2018, 11:09 AM
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And MJ doesn't get knocked for losing in the playoffs SIX consecutive years.
1984-1985: Lost in the first round (Lebron has never lost in the first round)
1985-1986: Lost in the first round
1986-1987: Lost in the first round
1987-1988: Lost in the semis
1988-1989: Lost in the ECF
1989-1990: Lost in the ECF
All this losing gets completely ignored when making the comparison. If you're going to compare playoff wins and losses, compare ALL the playoff runs.
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Heisman Winner [139852]
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I applaud this post b/c it includes facts.***
May 31, 2018, 1:13 PM
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All-TigerNet [13035]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 22352
Joined: 4/24/04
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IMO the only thing these threads are useful for is
May 30, 2018, 11:26 AM
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identifying what generation a poster was born in.
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Legend [17751]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16649
Joined: 9/1/12
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I agree. MJ is the GOAT.
May 30, 2018, 11:32 AM
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MJ is the GOAT shooting guard.
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Replies: 50
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