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Athletic Dir [863]
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So here's a good question me and some other people were debating yesterday
Jul 21, 2016, 11:13 AM
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Are acc teams like GT, Boston College, wake forest etc. considerably worse now than they were during the Tommy Bowden years when we always had a fight on our hands? Or are we just that much better now than our opponents.
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110%er [6662]
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Re: So here's a good question me and some other people were debating yesterday
Jul 21, 2016, 11:21 AM
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All three of those teams you mentioned have a tough time recruiting in their footprint. Thats where Clemson has overcome pretty much the entire conference. Our recruiting has gone over the top. WF just doesnt have a draw to the school, neither does BC.
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Orange Blooded [2702]
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Those three teams are much worse than 10 years ago
Jul 21, 2016, 11:28 AM
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Didn't Wake and GT win ACC championships during the time period you mention? And BC had Matt Ryan.
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Orange Blooded [4101]
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Re: Those three teams are much worse than 10 years ago
Jul 21, 2016, 11:39 AM
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In a nutshell, yes, all three were much better for a time. The Bees were tough consistently under O'Leary and had Joe Hamilton and Megaton along the way, pretty good ball players i woukd say. BC was at one tine ranked #1 or 2 if you will recall. That was the crazy season that USF was actually in the top 2 or 3 as well. I believe around 2006-7. Oh, and Wake? Won the ACC and went to a Bowl for a few of years. Had their best QB since Keith West was there, and a strong running a me and line play.
We in the other hand were still improving, but frankly very slowly, and in my opinion, a lot of it was the black hole we had at OC from the time Rich Rod left until the Chad showed up. Our DC's were always ok IMO. Herring wasn't bad, and Koenning, was pretty good overall, although we definitely improved with BV. Throw in the fact that TB was a good man, but not a very good game manager when games got tight. If you ever saw him squat on the sideline, you knew the game was over. Example: Auburn Bowl game in 2007 (?) When we were tied, minute or so left, and at the 40-ish. He played for overtime. Like. WHAT? That was the stuff we dealt with that never let us move forward.
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110%er [8681]
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Re: So here's a good question me and some other people were debating yesterday
Jul 21, 2016, 11:32 AM
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Both, but you got think those teams took advantage of the years that us and FSU were both down.
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Legend [15862]
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IMHO they are not quiet as good now and Clemson has really
Jul 21, 2016, 11:57 AM
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turned it up a few notches. So I would say it is a combination of both Clemson now being a better team while programs like GT, BC and Wake have fallen off. Jim Grobe had some really good teams in during TB's tenure, Matt Ryan was at BC and GT had some pretty good option QB's all 3 teams won their share of ACC games while TB was here.
IMO with the TB years I don't beleive Clemson would be where they are now. He brought in James Davis , CJ Spiller, Charlie Whitehurst, and some great defensive players too. To many people give Dabo all or most of the credit for recruiting during TB's time ST Clemson. But if you are going to the blame for Clemson's failures on TB , he should also be given credit for the success Clemson had while he was here. But in the Dabo era FSU, Duke, and Louisville are much improved teams along with NC and Miami.
Dabo was an excellent recruiting coordinator too! So I give him some credit for guys like CJ Spiller but i believe TB closed the deal on many recruits including CJ Spiller.
TB left a solid foundation for an energetic high achiever like Dabo to build from. Let's not forget TB recognized Dabo's talents from their days at Bama when TB was Dabo's boss then TB hired him at Clemson. Dabo brought a new energy and excitement to Clemson and has been building on that since I believe it was TB that recommended Dabo for the interim HC position.
Without TB there would be no Dabo era at Clemson. And all of the names mentioned to replace TB I would not have wanted at Clemson. Plus I don't see us having the success we are having now under those other coaches that we now enjoy with Dabo and Co. TB pushed for better compensation for the assistance and that helped Dabo because he was hire better coaches by offering higher salaries and multi year contracts. If I am not mistaken under TB the AD would only allow year to year contracts for assistant coaches at Clemson.
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Varsity [201]
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Re: So here's a good question me and some other people were debating yesterday
Jul 21, 2016, 12:12 PM
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Wake...yeah they have not been so hot the past few years. They had some good years under Jim Grobe but couldn't sustain it year to year.
Georgia Tech crushed us a couple years ago but largely due to our own mistakes. We returned the favor last year. They lost a lot of talent between those two games but could be decent again this year with senior QB Justin Thomas and more experience. They are cyclical IMO because of the PJ system.
Boston College had a great defense last year but no offense. The year before they gave us a good scare. And the year before that they had us on the ropes and we escaped.
We're definitely a better team now, but other than Wake, I don't think the other teams are necessarily any worse. It is just a fact that teams are going to get pumped up to try to upset the champ. We are going to get everybody's A game and we better come ready to fight every Saturday.
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CU Guru [1806]
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I think it's a little bit of a mix of both, but I will say
Jul 21, 2016, 12:16 PM
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that BC and Wake were better then. BC had Matt Ryan and won between 9 and 11 games a year while he was there. Wake won the ACC in 2006. I think GT was probably a little better then, but they had a good 2014 year complete with an Orange Bowl win and win over UGA which they never did in the same season back in the early 2000s
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110%er [5960]
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Nice debate tiger23orange
Jul 21, 2016, 12:21 PM
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and one that is not easily answered. You put Matt Ryan, the Ryan that was excellent in college at BC, on the BC team right now and they improve dramatically!! in the mid to late 2000's we had some very good teams, but they did not accomplish very much. 2008 comes to mind, and was the last time we were hyped as much as we currently are(kinda scary but I trust Dabo and this team will do much better).
We now recruit players that are premier, and we can be extremely selective. This has changed matters in that while a top level recruit does not work out 100% of the time, if you get ALL top level recruits, a high percentage will definitely be good to great at the college level. BC has trouble recruiting based on location but still have a nice tradition of success in football and they play very well against our Tigers. Wake is another small footprint that is hard pressed to get any top level players and a big testament to Jim Grobe as a coach and leader. How Wake Forest won an ACC championship is still boggling my mind, but it happened and coaching was huge factor no doubt. Ga Tech is in a hotbed of talent within the state, but Clemson, Georgia, Florida, FSU, Auburn, Alabama take the talent rich state and pluck the best players every year. Even with that said, Ga Tech has always been a thorn in the side of the Tigers and have put some of our best seasons on ICE... Now Clemson and FSU are back stronger than ever, looks like the road is really long and tough for the BC, Wake, Techs of the ACC.
Enter Dabo! He has clearly brought something to the table that recruits, players, and other coaches can relate to and buy into. In my opinion DABO SWINNEY is the reason Clemson has come back to national prominence. He is just a great man who, having played for successful teams and won a National Championship, competed at the highest level, players are able to relate to his style. The coaching staffs that he has put together have been amazing. Venables was a tremendous get, still not sure how Dabo did it but he had a plan and look where we are now!!
I love me some Clemson football and I am almost ready to explode I'm so excited. I want to believe we are good enough to run the table again, but know how difficult that is regardless of talent.
Go Tigers!!
Go Tigers!!
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