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Heisman Winner [111216]
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If you truly wanted to teach a man to fish
Apr 14, 2021, 11:35 AM
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you would not put him 100k in the hole to do so. Jesus would approve of student loan forgiveness, so should you. Oh, and stop jerking off to cops shooting black dudes, you guys know who you are.
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Lot o points [155517]
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Yes. “Neither a lender be.”
Apr 14, 2021, 11:37 AM
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Feels like I’m missing part of that expression though.
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Lot o points [155517]
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And yes that’s Shakespeare and not the big JC.***
Apr 14, 2021, 11:42 AM
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Heisman Winner [111216]
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Re: Yes. “Neither a lender be.”
Apr 14, 2021, 11:57 AM
[ in reply to Yes. “Neither a lender be.” ] |
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Debt service seems like a really good way to circulate money into the hands of the top 10%, which is really dumb considering we live in a consumer economy.
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Hall of Famer [23941]
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Re: Yes. “Neither a lender be.”
Apr 14, 2021, 12:47 PM
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Let me borrow a $100,000 and I'll pay you $100,000 back in 10 years. Sounds fair to me.
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Heisman Winner [119533]
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Re: If you truly wanted to teach a man to fish
Apr 14, 2021, 11:38 AM
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Dumb bass POD...
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Heisman Winner [119533]
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Sorry balm, I take that back
Apr 14, 2021, 11:42 AM
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I just read FBcooches latest real estate saga ??
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All-In [26464]
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“The poor you will always have with you ...
Apr 14, 2021, 11:41 AM
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But you will not always have me” ... JC
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Rock Defender [53]
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Don’t misunderstand
Apr 14, 2021, 11:44 AM
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110%er [5639]
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Re: If you truly wanted to teach a man to fish
Apr 14, 2021, 11:45 AM
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I may be not getting all of that, but I disagree that Jesus would have such a simple liberal-like, 140-character approach to today's world.
Jesus would recognize that continued dependency is the path towards activities and actions that mostly go against many of the 10 commandments and his teachings.
Jesus would recognize that we have to sacrifice the temporary feel-good moment of the loan forgiveness (in this case) and work towards a long-term, viable solution.
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Heisman Winner [111216]
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Re: If you truly wanted to teach a man to fish
Apr 14, 2021, 11:50 AM
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I do not remember Jesus saying that it should cost money to learn how to fish.
I declare that idiom dead, unless it is amended to say, give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day, lend a man 100k, and he will spend the rest of his life in debt. And I am pretty sure Jesus was explicit on what he thought about the money changers.
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Hall of Famer [24426]
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There is more truth to this than you might imagine.
Apr 14, 2021, 11:50 AM
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The Old Testament law called it Jubilee. Every 50 years all debts were cancelled, all land reverting to their original owners, and several other interesting things. The reason behind it was exactly what you have in mind: no predatory lending that puts people in positions of servitude. If everybody doesn't win, no one does.
This would have some interesting consequences. Loans would be very hard to get as Jubilee approached, so even prior to that all loans had to yield profitable results. Iffy projects and iffy people simply were not candidates for loans, as they shouldn't be. Loans were economic transactions with mutually beneficial results, not methods of social engineering, and certainly not methods of banks controlling people. Jubilee took care of that.
Could go on, but no one wants a TLDR. The point is that it is probably wrong to say, "Jesus would want debt forgiveness." If one really wants what Jesus wants, the next steps will be far more personally costly and personally beneficial than one has in mind, and it will involve zero finger pointing or expectations of what anyone else does. It will be between you and Him.
Only you know if that is where you want to go. If what you want is to direct others, He will refuse to be your voice.
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Heisman Winner [111216]
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Re: There is more truth to this than you might imagine.
Apr 14, 2021, 11:53 AM
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education is an investment in the country, and should not be seen a financial burden. Had you not educated yourself, then your net worth to society would be a lot less. Seems dumb not to incentivize as many people as possible to seek higher education, or a lot of people will be left out in the cold when automation really starts to displace workers.
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Hall of Famer [24426]
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The proposal to provide universal, free college education
Apr 14, 2021, 12:00 PM
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is a legit one. People of good will can agree or disagree with that.
Claiming that Jesus would take political stands, or mandate that one person pay for the mistake of another, is not. I don't know what He would say. I do know he would not be your voice or mine in directing what others should think or do. A person can't take out a loan then hold someone else hostage for paying it, retroactively claiming "fairness". Even Jubilee would preclude that situation arising.
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All-In [26464]
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If only educators really educated
Apr 14, 2021, 1:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: There is more truth to this than you might imagine. ] |
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Instead of spewing left wing propaganda
Of course liberals want to forgive student loan debt and are in favor of free college
People are starting to question whether a liberal arts education is worth the cost. If people stop buying, they lose their bully pulpit
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Lot o points [155517]
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You could be right, but by the time we had lowered
Apr 14, 2021, 2:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: There is more truth to this than you might imagine. ] |
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the quality of the college experience down to the level of the DMV, VA, and public school system, the aforementioned value of secondary education will be far, far less than it is now.
If all things remain equal, and govt reimburses loans and/or tuition, the schools will just charge more.
If govt caps tuition and/or takes a part in college administration, quality will go down.
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All-In [46765]
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Cancel x amount of loan debt fine.
Apr 14, 2021, 11:53 AM
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but have it in a bill that fixes the issues that lead us to this place.
Or else we will be doing the same thing in 10 years.
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CU Medallion [55989]
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They should just make public universities affordable.
Apr 14, 2021, 12:12 PM
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Easier said than done, of course, but student loan forgiveness addresses a symptom and not the problem.
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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Define affordable? SC and FL both have programs that make
Apr 14, 2021, 12:49 PM
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it quite affordable (just citing the two states I have lived in and experience with). Just don't get a worthless degree.
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CU Medallion [55989]
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Let's say '80s or '90s costs adjusted for inflation.
Apr 14, 2021, 1:06 PM
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"Students at public four-year institutions paid an average of $3,190 in tuition for the 1987-1988 school year, with prices adjusted to reflect 2017 dollars. Thirty years later, that average has risen to $9,970 for the 2017-2018 school year. That’s a 213 percent increase.
"The difference is stark at private schools as well. In 1988, the average tuition for a private nonprofit four-year institution was $15,160, in 2017 dollars. For the 2017-2018 school year, it’s $34,740, a 129 percent increase."
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much-college-tuition-has-increased-from-1988-to-2018.html
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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Is $9,970 unafforable or unattainable.
Apr 14, 2021, 1:46 PM
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Also, there's nothing wrong with community college for 2 years which has lower tuition than universities.
Now, is it the easy path... maybe not? But maybe college ain't for everyone.
I think the experience of partying your ### off for 4 years may become a thing of the past.
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CU Medallion [55989]
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It's unafforable, but attainable through loans.
Apr 14, 2021, 3:28 PM
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Which is why young people today are starting off their adult lives saddled with debt while previous generations did not.
Look at it this way: A 1990 Honda Civic EX cost about $11k when it was new. Adjusted for inflation that's about $22k in 2020 dollars. Seems about right. But if Civic EX prices had increased at the same rate as public college tuition over the past 30 years, that Honda's MSRP would be about $65k.
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All-In [40868]
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11k x 213 percent is not 65k***
Apr 14, 2021, 5:12 PM
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CU Medallion [55989]
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No it isn’t.
Apr 14, 2021, 11:35 PM
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22k increasing by 215% is roughly 65k.
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All-In [40868]
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your math and logic are incorrect
Apr 15, 2021, 6:18 AM
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not even close
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CU Medallion [55989]
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They're both spot on actually.
Apr 15, 2021, 8:39 AM
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Let me take one more stab at this.
From the article: "Students at public four-year institutions paid an average of $3,190 in tuition for the 1987-1988 school year, with prices adjusted to reflect 2017 dollars. Thirty years later, that average has risen to $9,970 for the 2017-2018 school year. That’s a 213 percent increase"
$3,190 adjusted for inflation. 30 years later it's $9,970 which is a 213% increase.
My example: 1990 Honda Civic adjusted for inflation is $22k. Thirty years later, that price would rise to over $65k if there were a 213% increase.
For the mathematically challenged, a 100% increase is double the price. A 200% increase is triple the price.
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110%er [5639]
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Re: They're both spot on actually.
Apr 15, 2021, 9:12 AM
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What's the point? $10k/year is the 80s price today. Okay, got that. 213% is just an inflation number, not a rate of increase of college tuition.
Today's price for TUITION at a 4-year public institution is not much more. I'm paying for two right now, so I have a pretty good idea about that.
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CU Medallion [55989]
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No, it's not an inflation number.
Apr 15, 2021, 9:43 AM
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The numbers are adjusted for inflation. We're removing inflation from the conversation so it's an apples to apples comparison.
Again, from the article: Tuition was $3,190 for the 1987-1988 school year with prices adjusted to reflect 2017 dollars. Thirty years later, that average has risen to $9,970 for the 2017-2018 school year.
$9,970 is more than triple $3,190. To put it another way, the price has increased by 213%.
I'm starting to understand why education is so important.
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All-In [40868]
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well they are certainly wrong
Apr 15, 2021, 10:06 AM
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$3190 was about what average tuition costs were per year in 1987 and $9970 is about what average tuition costs are today.
Yes tuition costs have risen more than other costs, but not by that much. The biggest reason is lending money with no consequences, professors that teach one class at the most, and insane coddling with buildings.
I just put three through college. Their total tuition costs for 4 years was about 24k, they all got some scholarships some help from me and small loans and all three worked to help pay their way. It wasn't hard and all three ended up with great jobs and all three either got or are getting their graduate degrees paid for by their employer.
Hey we chose to go the community college route to save money. It wasn't tuition so much but room and board that we saved.
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Lot o points [155517]
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Wanna know what's mind-blowing?
Apr 15, 2021, 9:24 AM
[ in reply to It's unafforable, but attainable through loans. ] |
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In 1990, a BMW 325is was $28,950, or $58,099 in 2021 money.
A new BMW 440i (closest thing I can find to a 325is) starts at $51k and change.
SO TUITION SHOULD BE EVEN LESS TODAY!
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CU Medallion [55989]
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Are you being stupid on purpose?
Apr 15, 2021, 9:54 AM
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If that 1990 BMW - adjusted for inflation at $58k - increased in price at the same rate as tuition, it'd cost over $175k in 2021. Get it?
Tripling the price of things like cars, houses, and college tuition is problematic. Apparently that's difficult to comprehend.
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Lot o points [155517]
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WHOAH, easy on the butthurt
Apr 15, 2021, 9:56 AM
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I thought i was pointing out, to a car guy, my incredulity that a German car was a relative bargain now compared to the 80’s. I don’t really GAS about the pointless tuition bickering.
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CU Medallion [55989]
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Evil Clown
Apr 15, 2021, 10:20 AM
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Evil Clown is very quick with a joke, but his jests always have a barb. He has little patience for in-depth discussions and will often disrupt exchanges between serious forum participants by introducing irrelevant topics, fatuous quips, and offhand comments. His greatest thrill is to taunt and humiliate weaker or more plodding Warriors with his snappy ripostes. Not a particularly powerful Warrior, Evil Clown will attempt to avoid defeat by accusing his attacker of having no sense of humor.
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Lot o points [155517]
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That hurts cause there might be some truth.
Apr 15, 2021, 12:19 PM
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For reals though, I've been bichin about tuition costs for over a decade now, and most of them end with "nothing on this planet has inflated at the rate that college tuition has".
We might disagree on the underlying causes, but I'm pretty well on record agreeing with you regarding the insanity of the rate of increase of tuition.
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All-In [40868]
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CU Medallion [55989]
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All-In [41912]
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That starts with...
Apr 15, 2021, 8:42 AM
[ in reply to They should just make public universities affordable. ] |
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Cutting back admin salaries and preventing them from giving themselves raises while simultaneously raising tuition. That's the #1 reason college costs have spiked so much in the past 30 years.
Clemson is a major offender in this. Hell, in the past 20 years, admin positions have just been made up out of thin air to give some people jobs at Clemson.
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110%er [5639]
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Re: That starts with...
Apr 15, 2021, 9:18 AM
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Totally wrong.
The no. 1 reason for college tuition increase is too much free or nearly free money going to students which increases the money supply going into the college system.
Beyond that other reasons are:
- the ultimate white privilege scheme - TENURE
- bureaucracies naturally become more bureaucratic (inefficient), which increases costs
- Diversity and inclusion departments and stupid-a$$ chit like a bias incident response team (for real this exists at NC State)
- in recent years too many useless majors have been invented along with entire fields of fake study - these programs cannot support themselves and thus have to be subsidized from the people studying topics with which they can get a job
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All-In [41912]
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Re: That starts with...
Apr 15, 2021, 10:15 AM
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No, I'm not, and can provide the data to show it. From 2011 to 2016, Clemson admin salaries increased by $100 million.
What you listed (loans) has definitely been a factor, but it's not the primary one. Loan companies AND college admins have generated artificial demand for college to boost enrollment and raise prices.
Your other points:
1. Tenure: No. Professor salaries have risen on par with cost of living and inflation.
2. Bureaucracies produce more inflated jobs and thus inflated salaries, therefore proving my point.
3. That has not risen the college costs.
4. The majors do not increase the price tag.
I know you're just spouting ideas off the top of your head but maybe attempt a little research.
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Oculus Spirit [80930]
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Sure, student loan forgiveness to everyone
Apr 14, 2021, 12:44 PM
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Do I get a 20+ year old payment in the amount of my college tuition (adjusted for inflation of course) for not having student loans to pay off?
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All-In [46765]
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You mean back when minimum wage was $1.40
Apr 14, 2021, 12:46 PM
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and you could work 5 hours a week, pay off your tuition and save for a $5,000 house?
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Oculus Spirit [80930]
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Thats about what your house cost, isn't it?
Apr 14, 2021, 1:48 PM
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You've made it happen so far.
Why the fsck does anyone think as a taxpayer I somehow owe them a college degree?
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110%er [8876]
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Re: If you truly wanted to teach a man to fish
Apr 14, 2021, 1:11 PM
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what are you teaching him when you make someone else repay his debt
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110%er [8876]
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Re: If you truly wanted to teach a man to fish
Apr 14, 2021, 1:12 PM
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what are you teaching him when you force someone else to repay his debt
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All-In [47639]
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Can sumbody come to teach me to fish?
Apr 14, 2021, 1:49 PM
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I ain't caught squat lately...
McLovin
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Oculus Spirit [85013]
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I went last night
Apr 14, 2021, 1:58 PM
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Caught a couple on a ned rig
Caught 1 missed 1 on weightless bubble gum trick worm
Spinnerbait should work well on rip rap next couple weeks with a lil wind
Just for catching fish, 1/15 shroomz jig head and 2-3/4 Canada Craw TRD is the way to go.
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Oculus Spirit [80930]
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All-In [47639]
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Last thing I caught was on spoiled chicken.
Apr 14, 2021, 2:01 PM
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A huge snapping turtle
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Oculus Spirit [85013]
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That's not a snapping turtle
Apr 14, 2021, 2:22 PM
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hth
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All-In [47639]
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ALL turtles are snapping turtles. Just like all snakes are
Apr 14, 2021, 3:25 PM
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poisonous...
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All-In [48078]
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Re: If you truly wanted to teach a man to fish
Apr 14, 2021, 5:18 PM
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I think their should be free college educations, but only for degrees where there is a need.
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CU Medallion [50635]
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go to bass pro shops***
Apr 16, 2021, 2:15 PM
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50
