Replies: 56
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Heisman Winner [119710]
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110%er [7207]
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Won't somebody please think of the corporations?***
Apr 5, 2021, 10:06 PM
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Heisman Winner [119710]
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He obviously is.,.,***
Apr 5, 2021, 10:15 PM
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All-In [40933]
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less than 1% of the business employ half the workers
Apr 5, 2021, 10:17 PM
[ in reply to Won't somebody please think of the corporations?*** ] |
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a strong economy helps most everyone. Well public workers get paid good or bad economy, but most of the rest don't.
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110%er [7207]
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Is this some trickle down economics bs?
Apr 5, 2021, 10:20 PM
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I honestly can't tell what you're trying to say.
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Legend [18790]
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Supply side economics....
Apr 5, 2021, 11:08 PM
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Imagine you're a huge company that makes screen doors. The idea is that you provide tax cuts to the screen door company (supply-side economics) and they use the extra money to:
a.) hire more workers
b.) invest in more machinery and produce more
c.) buy back stock
If you said a or b then you know nothing about economics. Neither increases demand so why would you hire more workers, pay them more, or invest in more machinery? The demand is the same.
c is more likely the right answer. Driving up stock prices through buy-backs (reduction of supply ironically) could help those who have 401Ks in these companies but by in large helps big investors or big stockholders in the company.
On the flip side, if you gave the same money to the lower-income folk somehow then they might decide to get that messed up screen door fixed finally. This would increase demand. Increase demand for screen doors and you get a and b.
It's really simple if you think about it. The Supply-side economics fallacy is a lie that never made sense, to begin with. But why would those who could stand to profit from it try and sell it?
The issue is not left or right. There is the poor who abuse the government for hand-outs who upset the hard-working folk who are just trying to get ahead. Supply-side is the lie they sell you at the same time complain about entitlements.
I think entitlement spending is an issue for sure but the real damage is done by money in politics. Again, not going left or right here but the real enemy is corruption.
If libs and conservatives could just get the money out of politics we could begin to see meaningful reform and dialogue but that requires a populace capable of critical thinking amidst a sea of misinformation. Until then we are just reduced to tribes fighting over meaningless BS on the internet.
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110%er [7207]
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Preaching to the choir
Apr 5, 2021, 11:45 PM
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And I was taught by conservative economists.
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110%er [5677]
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Re: Supply side economics....
Apr 6, 2021, 8:54 AM
[ in reply to Supply side economics.... ] |
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There are more than 3 choices.
The screen company could decide to invest in capital improvements in their facility and/or manufacturing process to improve efficiency and increase profit margin.
They could spin up an R&D project to expand their product offering.
They could decide to increase employee benefits, like offering new moms paid time off.
...
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Heisman Winner [111601]
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Re: Supply side economics....
Apr 6, 2021, 2:52 PM
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The screen door company can also take a small business loan at 3%, then reinvest their profits into a combination of debt service and growth in such they do not pay a dime in taxes.. I mean it is kind of the point of raising the corporate rate, it brings in very little revenue anyway. If they need cash, they can borrow at a substantially lower rate they pay it off in a year, then say holding onto it and paying the 28%.
Again, the idea is to incentivize growth and discourage stockpiling of cash.
We are taking our profits and growing them into a second company that will serve as a shell for now, but in 2 years will be built into an e-commerce platform. For now, we bury our R&D costs there and buy back the assets we produce for our own company to use, which in a sense will keep that company from reporting a profit, and gives us another avenue to reduce our tax liability.
Clever, legal little loopholes like this are how you get around high taxes, but in the end, we are investing in growth and not lining our pockets with bonuses.
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All-In [40933]
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I've always had two companies
Apr 6, 2021, 3:10 PM
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One is the company that generates income. The other has all the assets. I would never have one company with a loss and the other with a profit. One company pays the other rent so that it always show just a very small profit. The other thing I do is not to stockpile cash. Cash in the bank goes up at the end of the year and you are taxed on it. At then end of the year the accountant tells us what to do to even things out. S-Corps are taxed at the personal rate which sucks big time. I get to pay double taxes on myself and everyone that works for me.
By far my largest check every month is to the IRS and it's not even close. I have had recession years where I did not make one dime but still paid huge amount of taxes for employees and the match as well. Everyone should have to make payroll while broke a few times, it ain't fun.
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Rock Defender [53]
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So now they’re not only trying to tell all of us what to do
Apr 5, 2021, 10:14 PM
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: So now they’re not only trying to tell all of us what to do
Apr 5, 2021, 10:16 PM
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Yeah, like that is a first for America.
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110%er [7207]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Just to be clear
Apr 5, 2021, 10:19 PM
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110%er [7207]
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You know this isn't a unilateral thing, right?
Apr 5, 2021, 10:23 PM
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Like the other G20 countries have to agree to it.
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Rock Defender [53]
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First paragraph
Apr 5, 2021, 10:29 PM
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110%er [7207]
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What do you think the word agreement means?***
Apr 5, 2021, 10:43 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: What do you think the word agreement means?***
Apr 5, 2021, 10:48 PM
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110%er [7207]
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Re: What do you think the word agreement means?***
Apr 5, 2021, 10:53 PM
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There's no evidence that we're on the wrong side of the Laffer curve for individual income tax or corporate taxes. By competing to bring corporations inside our borders, a race to the bottom, everyone loses but the corporations.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: What do you think the word agreement means?***
Apr 5, 2021, 11:00 PM
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110%er [7207]
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I'd love to see that math.
Apr 5, 2021, 11:10 PM
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You can't just look at nominal revenues. After adjusting for economic growth and inflation, the Trump tax cuts costs around $275B in 2018 alone.
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Rock Defender [53]
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ask and ye shall receive
Apr 5, 2021, 11:20 PM
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110%er [7207]
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You're a god #### genius Gump
Apr 5, 2021, 11:48 PM
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That's literally showing the nominal revenues. Just out of curiosity, how do you think the economy kept growing when the corporate tax rate was 35%?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: You're a god #### genius Gump
Apr 5, 2021, 11:53 PM
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110%er [7207]
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Don't be mad.
Apr 6, 2021, 12:08 AM
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I mean I suck just like all military service members suck, right? And what's funny is I was taught economics (BS and MA) by Clemson professors who skew conservative. One of the ways Trump really gave the game away to me, is how he went out of his way to preach populism over solid economic principles. To each their own though, if you have convinced yourself that the best thing for America is to throw money at rich people and corporations, I can't help you.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Don't be mad.
Apr 6, 2021, 12:12 AM
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110%er [7207]
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Zero taxes for everyone! Math is fun.***
Apr 6, 2021, 12:16 AM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Zero taxes for everyone! Math is fun.***
Apr 6, 2021, 12:22 AM
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110%er [7207]
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Tell me bout the good ole days***
Apr 6, 2021, 12:32 AM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Tell me bout the good ole days***
Apr 6, 2021, 12:38 AM
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110%er [7207]
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Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden***
Apr 6, 2021, 12:53 AM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden***
Apr 6, 2021, 12:59 AM
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110%er [7207]
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Says the guy bringing up Civil War tax rates.***
Apr 6, 2021, 1:06 AM
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110%er [5677]
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Re: Says the guy bringing up Civil War tax rates.***
Apr 6, 2021, 8:59 AM
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So why not tax corporations 100%. Do not allow any corporations to make profit, just let them cover expenses; the rest goes to the government.
By your logic, this should be ideal, right?
And if you are found (or suspected of) inflating expenses, the death mobile comes to visit.
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110%er [7207]
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Read a God #### book
Apr 6, 2021, 9:28 AM
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Despite it's serious problems, here's a quick rundown on how the Laffer curve works: at a 0% and 100% tax rate, you get zero revenue. If you assume a single peak curve, you want to find that peak (hooray calculus). The issue is that there is zero evidence that we're on the wrong side of the curve where any tax increase discourages the taxed activity. So even by supply side theory, it's dumb to cut corporate tax rates.
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Oculus Spirit [97722]
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I think you both are missing the point.
Apr 6, 2021, 9:22 AM
[ in reply to Re: Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden*** ] |
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Biggest problem with America, as I see it anyway, is in how we define what you are arguing about, the word "successful". Today in America that means money, lots of toys, a huge house, etc.
And powerful? I'm not sure anymore. I mean people won't wear a freaking mask during a pandemic, how would you expect everyone to sacrifice to fight a war? Heck, 50% of Americans would be against any war, because of whichever President is in office at the time. I'm not sure we can FIGHT a war. We have tons of money, but have lost our soul IMO.
Happiness? We are nowhere near the top in happiness. Freedom? Irony not lost we're not even near the top there either. And dropping btw. Economic freedom? Surely we're top there. Nope. Not in the top 10. 19 other countries with more economic freedom.
And traditionally the United States was NOT a world power, economically or militarily. That's a recent development in our overall history. The trick is to not be a world power until you NEED TO BE. It is not a perpetual state to be in really. Nor is economic progress and improvement a perpetual state to be in really.
Anyway, yall just keep on arguing politics, which has basically become an institutionalized coping mechanism for avoiding reality and/or assigning blame.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden***
Apr 6, 2021, 9:59 AM
[ in reply to Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden*** ] |
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So if we follow Sweden as an example we get to have legal automatic machine guns instead of semi-automatic guns so I am good with that.
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All-Conference [400]
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Re: Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden***
Apr 6, 2021, 10:04 AM
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If legalizing automatic weapons is all it takes to get conservatives to agree to adopt something like the Nordic model, I'm good with that too.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden***
Apr 6, 2021, 10:24 AM
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Do remember the Nordic model expects citizens to have a job or be actively seeking one. How are we going to do that, kick out a whole lot of people out of the U.S. while we have opened up the borders. Explain totally how the Nordic model will work in the U.S. I am interested.
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All-Conference [400]
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Re: Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden***
Apr 6, 2021, 11:12 AM
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The employment rates in these countries are not significantly higher than in the US. I don't think it would be necessary to deport jobless Americans in order to catch up, especially considering the number of public sector jobs that exist in these other countries.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.EMP.TOTL.SP.ZS?end=2020&most_recent_value_desc=true&start=2020&view=map
I do not have the time or knowledge to "explain totally" how the US might go about implementing a system similar to the Nordic model. It seems to me though, that trying to adopt similar policies to countries that consistently rank higher than us in terms of personal and economic freedom, happiness, quality of life, etc. makes common sense. It always confuses me why some people seem to believe we are incapable of achieving these things in the US.
The article below goes into detail about the nordic model, the challenges it faces, and potential solutions. If you're really curious, it's a pretty interesting read. I thought this paragraph from the introduction summed things up pretty well.
"The Nordics have been embracing both globalization and the welfare state, and we argue that the security offered by collective mechanisms for sharing risks has been instrumental in enhancing a favourable attitude to globalization and competition. This key characteristic of the model must be preserved – in order to maintain an economic and social climate which is conducive to future welfare and growth. Collective risk sharing should continue to offer a safety net which helps workers and their families to cope with risks and to adapt to new requirements in times of change."
https://economics.mit.edu/files/5726
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden***
Apr 6, 2021, 11:25 AM
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All-Conference [400]
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Re: Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden***
Apr 6, 2021, 11:36 AM
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I thought you conservatives hated Delta right now, why you trying to sell me a ticket?
By the way, can you put me back on ignore? Thanks
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden***
Apr 6, 2021, 11:43 AM
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110%er [7207]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Are you trying to make Murica better? Then GTFO!!!!!!!!!!!!!***
Apr 6, 2021, 12:10 PM
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110%er [7207]
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He said, yelling into the internet.
Apr 6, 2021, 12:48 PM
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So I'm assuming you're bald? Otherwise, how do you comb your hair in a house with no mirrors?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: He said, yelling into the internet.
Apr 6, 2021, 1:06 PM
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110%er [7207]
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Re: He said, yelling into the internet.
Apr 6, 2021, 2:19 PM
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Congrats on the great year. Apparently the world didn't end when Biden took over after all.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: He said, yelling into the internet.
Apr 6, 2021, 2:46 PM
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110%er [7207]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden***
Apr 6, 2021, 2:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden*** ] |
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To become a citizen of Sweden you have to establish a permanent residence and stay at that residence for five years, be able to prove identity with a photo ID (and liberals think this is racist),be on your best behavior and obey the law during your wait(so this rules out ANTIFA,BLM,the nuts on JAN.6th who wear waved in by the capitol police , and anyone who has broken the law .So yes a lot of people will not be allowed to be citizens of the U.S. to institute the Nordic plan.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden***
Apr 6, 2021, 2:57 PM
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To get into Sweden you have to have a passport/photo ID so to implement the Nordic plan in the U.S. people would have to provide this which liberals say is racist and not everyone has one so these people would have to exit the U.S.
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110%er [7207]
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Orange Blooded [4018]
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Re: Just to be clear
Apr 5, 2021, 10:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: Just to be clear ] |
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Do you consider tariffs part of free market principles?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Just to be clear
Apr 5, 2021, 10:34 PM
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110%er [8984]
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Re: Biden want to DOUBLE taxes
Apr 6, 2021, 10:40 AM
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the middle is where the volume of cash is, but hey no meanie tweets
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Hall of Famer [21940]
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Janet Yellen is a ####### ####
Apr 6, 2021, 11:16 AM
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and should be a top 3 enemy of the Blue team based on all this "tax the rich", "wealth inequality", "make the rich pay their fair share!" ######## we've had to listen to for over a year.
If any of those morons knew why we are where we are, their target would fall flat on this hobbit looking swamp rat white headed #####.
But hey, she's a woman so that's cool - diversity and all.
printer go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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