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Replies: 53
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Dan Radakovich injured Clemson family. And we let him.
Jun 10, 2019, 11:53 AM
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If you have not seen this, then you don't have a real opinion on the Jack Leggett firing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loMLPS-Ubo4
The rest of this is only for those who watched that video. Otherwise there's no point in reading any of it.
It was a bad baseball decision. It was a bad business decision. It was a bad moral decision. It was not a Clemson decision. Look at all the quotes from other coaches around the country. The quotes from the players at the time. The quotes from people who had any direct interaction with him. We completely crapped the bed for stupid reasons.
Firing Tommy Bowden was justified and done the right way. Firing Tommy West was justified and done the right way. Firing Larry Shyatt too. All those guys were great people, but it was good for Clemson to let them go. And Clemson did it the right way and at the right time. What happened to Leggett represents the worst of the new big-business era of college athletics. And I still feel terrible about what transpired. I have been through ups, downs and mediocrity in several Clemson sports over the decades. I get angry, I get sad, I get happy, and I have expectations. But the situation with Jack Leggett is a nasty stain on our history and it needs to be cleaned. I know it will be eventually, once enough time has passed. But I call BS right now, not later.
I don't give a #### how unpopular this is. I held back for years because I knew it made no difference once the decision was made... and I wanted to get behind the new coach and the players. But at this point, I've had plenty of time to think about it and there it is. I want it out there. Dan Radakovich was an ####### and he owes JL an apology for his conduct.
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Commissioner [981]
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Re: Dan Radakovich injured Clemson family. And we let him.
Jun 10, 2019, 12:06 PM
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D rad sucks and the coot we have for a coach now is a wanna b but is an o fer
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110%er [6436]
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110%er [6075]
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DRad hired Paul Johnson and killed a once proud GT basketball program
Jun 10, 2019, 12:22 PM
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What did you expect? Most overrated AD in College Athletics.
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Orange Blooded [4997]
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Re: DRad hired Paul Johnson and killed a once proud GT basketball program
Jun 10, 2019, 12:26 PM
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Agree. And it really doesn't have to do with Jack
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All-In [43979]
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110%er [6075]
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Please, hes been riding Dabos coattails since hes been here
Jun 10, 2019, 12:39 PM
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Something he INHERITED mind you.
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CU Guru [1630]
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After football, what are the elite programs at Clemson?
Jun 10, 2019, 1:11 PM
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Men's golf
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All-In [43979]
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Men's golf and soccer come to mind.
Jun 10, 2019, 3:41 PM
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How many elite programs do you feel Clemson should have at any given time?
"All of them" isn't a reasonable answer.
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All-Conference [448]
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Re: Trying to use this against DRad and the job he is doing here
Jun 10, 2019, 1:48 PM
[ in reply to Trying to use this against DRad and the job he is doing here ] |
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PJ did win a conference championship and an Orange Bowl. Not sure I would call his hire a mistake. Letting him stay as long as they did could be considered a mistake but the hire was a good one at the time IMO.
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CU Guru [1944]
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Re: Trying to use this against DRad and the job he is doing here
Jun 10, 2019, 9:33 PM
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He won when he first got to GT because the best OLine, QB & B-back he ever had to run his system were already there. He never recruited to that level. He proved himself that his system won’t work in P5 because of the caliber of players he has to choose from that will come to his system. There’s little to no passing game & his success was sporadic to say the least.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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All-In [43979]
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Hindsight is 20/20, but at the time the program seemed
Jun 10, 2019, 12:27 PM
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stagnant and in need of new leadership. I like Jack, and appreciate all he did for our program, but the multiple years in a row of what seemed like disappointing finishes took their toll on the program and the fan base. Obviously, it's never easy to fire a legend, but at some point the trigger has to be pulled if you want to take a chance on improving things.
I never got the feeling that DRad and Leggett were a good fit personality wise. There are surely some things behind the scenes we aren't privy to, but at some point, we need to trust our AD. He has a tough job to do. By all accounts, he's done a great job as our AD. We are currently enjoying unprecedented success in football, recently had one of our best basketball seasons ever, and have invested significantly in facility upgrades for many sports including baseball. Overall, DRad is doing a great job.
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Commissioner [981]
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Re: Hindsight is 20/20, but at the time the program seemed
Jun 10, 2019, 12:35 PM
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??? Made one good hire so far ! Amanda butler football saving his ####!
Keeping brownell speaks volumes of his ability ! zero
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Oculus Spirit [76636]
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Re: Hindsight is 20/20, but at the time the program seemed
Jun 10, 2019, 12:40 PM
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Seek decaf.
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All-TigerNet [13031]
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All-TigerNet [13031]
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Also, ADs outsource a great deal of the hiring process
Jun 10, 2019, 12:48 PM
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to search firms. They make the final call (likely with input from others), but it's not D Rad is spending all of his time compiling detailed notes on potential candidates for all the sports he oversees.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: The notion that all ADs do is hire and fire coaches is
Jun 10, 2019, 2:13 PM
[ in reply to The notion that all ADs do is hire and fire coaches is ] |
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It's certainly not the only thing AD's have to do. But fundraising on Dabo's coattails isn't exactly rocket science. And doing everything that Dabo tells you to do facility wise also isn't rocket science. He is pretty much letting everything else fester and rot. Jack raised the money himself for the new digs Monte gets to call home. Just one of the indignities he inflicted on Jack. Not putting his foot down about leaving the ACM also shows he isn't exactly engaged in the administrative side of business as he should be. He is a bad Athletic Director. Football National Championships whitewash a lot of problems.
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All-In [43979]
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What makes him a bad AD?
Jun 10, 2019, 3:39 PM
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Judging DRad’s tenure on Clemson’s baseball program is silly. Sorry, but college baseball isn’t that important in the grand scheme of college athletics. Besides, under DRad’s watch, we have upgraded baseball facilities and made the NCAAs every year despite a coaching change. What else do you want him to do?
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Legend [16900]
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Re: What makes him a bad AD?
Jun 10, 2019, 4:01 PM
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Well, since you consider our men's basketball program a paradigm of success we're not likely to see eye to eye on this issue. And, as I pointed out in the post your replied to, Jack raised the money for the baseball renovations. Then, wasn't even afforded the dignity of using them for even one season. We've also finished 4th in our division twice in baseball in the last four years. Something that only happened to Jack once in a decade of divisional play. Defining down our baseball expectations appears to be what the Monte Lee era is all about. Much like the Brownell era in basketball. Why go to the NCAA tournament every year when you can go once a decade. You'll appreciate it so much more!
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All-In [43979]
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Dramatic much, Mrs. Leggett?***
Jun 10, 2019, 9:16 PM
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Legend [16900]
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that’s rich from Brownell’s taint washer.***
Jun 10, 2019, 11:29 PM
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Orange Blooded [2828]
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CU Medallion [67617]
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Re: Wait are you talking about Jack or Brown-L?
Jun 10, 2019, 1:06 PM
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You can debate this but it is two very different situations. The sports and the drafts are very different. Plus the status and name recognition of the two programs is miles apart. So to reduce it to one should go and one shouldnt is an over simplification. Jack seemed to be on a downward spiral for several years and couldnt turn it around. Brad has gotten close but isnt winning close games. It seems he had a promising blip w the sweet 16 run. I think that bought him this next year. Now he has lost a lot of guys though hoops may not continue much longer without changes.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Dan Radakovich injured Clemson family. And we let him.
Jun 10, 2019, 12:45 PM
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If you have not seen this, then you don't have a real opinion on the Jack Leggett firing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loMLPS-Ubo4The rest of this is only for those who watched that video. Otherwise there's no point in reading any of it. It was a bad baseball decision. It was a bad business decision. It was a bad moral decision. It was not a Clemson decision. Look at all the quotes from other coaches around the country. The quotes from the players at the time. The quotes from people who had any direct interaction with him. We completely crapped the bed for stupid reasons. Firing Tommy Bowden was justified and done the right way. Firing Tommy West was justified and done the right way. Firing Larry Shyatt too. All those guys were great people, but it was good for Clemson to let them go. And Clemson did it the right way and at the right time. What happened to Leggett represents the worst of the new big-business era of college athletics. And I still feel terrible about what transpired. I have been through ups, downs and mediocrity in several Clemson sports over the decades. I get angry, I get sad, I get happy, and I have expectations. But the situation with Jack Leggett is a nasty stain on our history and it needs to be cleaned. I know it will be eventually, once enough time has passed. But I call BS right now, not later. I don't give a #### how unpopular this is. I held back for years because I knew it made no difference once the decision was made... and I wanted to get behind the new coach and the players. But at this point, I've had plenty of time to think about it and there it is. I want it out there. Dan Radakovich was an ####### and he owes JL an apology for his conduct.
Oh the drama...
A coach is fired after five seasons of disappointing results. A coach by many accounts did not work very hard at developing a relationship with his boss. A coach who had good career results but could never win on the biggest stage. How exactly is this a stain on Clemson?
BTW he showed what type of man he is by his continued presence at Clemson instead of giving the new HC some space to develop the team chemistry.
Finally, if this coach is as good as he thinks he is why is he not coaching somewhere?
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Commissioner [981]
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Re: Dan Radakovich injured Clemson family. And we let him.
Jun 10, 2019, 12:49 PM
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Gold metal!! Next
Omg just make more excuses for monte hall Lee
Players look like hobos and thugs under him!!
Of course his teams eat pressure like candy! He hasn’t done crap
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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gold metal??
Jun 10, 2019, 1:37 PM
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nm
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Commissioner [981]
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Re: gold metal??
Jun 10, 2019, 1:42 PM
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Medal
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Dan Radakovich injured Clemson family. And we let him.
Jun 10, 2019, 12:46 PM
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I disagree. Leggett needed to go. Radakovich has been a very good AD for Clemson.
He's smart enough to give Dabo whatever he needs.
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Orange Blooded [3875]
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Re: Dan Radakovich injured Clemson family. And we let him.
Jun 10, 2019, 1:47 PM
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I disagree. Leggett needed to go. Radakovich has been a very good AD for Clemson.
He's smart enough to give Dabo whatever he needs.
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Orange Blooded [3875]
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Re: Dan Radakovich injured Clemson family. And we let him.
Jun 10, 2019, 1:48 PM
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Well said Felix I concur.
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CU Medallion [51781]
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All-TigerNet [13031]
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I don't know whether or not Leggett was let go the
Jun 10, 2019, 12:50 PM
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"right way" or whether Monte Lee is ultimately the answer going forward, but i still firmly believe it was time for a change.
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Commissioner [999]
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Re: Dan Radakovich injured Clemson family. And we let him.
Jun 10, 2019, 12:57 PM
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Question: would your opinion be different if we made it to the College World Series that last couple of years?? Analyzing whether a decision was right or wrong should not be impacted/second guessed by the outcome.
If it's 4th and 1 on the 1 inch line and we run it up the middle with power: if we score = great call; if the defense stops us = why did we run it up the middle?? I have gotten better/wiser over the years (44 yr old now) to analyze the decision on the information at hand at the time of the decision and not the outcome as a result of the decision.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Dan Radakovich injured Clemson family. And we let him.
Jun 10, 2019, 2:17 PM
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the outcome of a decision is literally the only way it can be analyzed and evaluated. From there, we are supposed to learn from our mistakes. I can not imagine what you are actually trying to convey here. If you get a problem wrong on a math test you should disregard the outcome and continue doing math the wrong way?
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All-TigerNet [13031]
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Are you not familiar with "analyze the process, not the
Jun 10, 2019, 10:08 PM
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results?" Sometimes good decisions do not work. There are many great examples of that in poker. The goal is to make the decision that gives you the best chance to succeed. Sometimes that decision does not work out. That does NOT mean it was a poor decision.
The math test analogy is not good because there is typically only one correct answer to a math problem on a test. That's very black and white. Real life decisions are often very grey and must be made with incomplete information.
I'll admit that it's often difficult to analyze the process, especially here where we are on the outside looking in and know almost nothing about the process that was used to fire Leggett and hire Monty Lee. But i would say that over half of the hires made in major college athletics do not work out. Are those all the result of dumb ADs making poor decisions or is it possible that even good hires sometimes don't pan out? I'm inclined to believe the latter.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Are you not familiar with "analyze the process, not the
Jun 10, 2019, 11:27 PM
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I responded to a post that said “Analyzing whether a decision was right or wrong should not be impacted/second guessed by the outcome.“. Full stop. No qualifiers. An outcome “should not” impact whether a decision was right or wrong. That has nothing to do with the process and making informed decisions. It’s full blown vaccine denier / flat-earther level crazy talk. And you seem to think it’s deserves defending.
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110%er [7434]
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Re: Are you not familiar with "analyze the process, not the
Jun 11, 2019, 10:38 AM
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Viz, by your analysis, we should have fired Dabo after his 3rd season. Where would we be today? Probably looking for our second coach after firing Dabo and a lot less bling in the cabinets.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Why would "we" fire a coach that after his 3rd year...
Jun 11, 2019, 10:47 AM
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won the Atlantic twice, the ACC for the first time in 19 years and took Clemson to its first BCS bowl?
Surely you're not trying to hold his interim against? He did a magnificent job salvaging what could be.
Whether you like/love Bowden or not, his players did.
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Associate AD [805]
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Re: Dan Radakovich injured Clemson family. And we let him.
Jun 10, 2019, 12:57 PM
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So, to hell with the money raised and improvements in facilities that he initiated and has realized: Littlejohn, Tennis, Doug Kingsmore, West Zone and Oculus, football operations complex, soccer practice fields, new softball stadium, hitting bays at golf facility, other Memorial stadium improvements including suites, press box, letter winners lounge, IPTAY west zone phase III, academic services, and etc. . . all with a relatively small alumni group.
Easy to deride and disdain from a distance, but if you indict DR, you also have to indict senior administrators who have, publicly and privately, supported his decisions and retained his services for the foreseeable future.n
Problem is, you see symptoms but don't understand the underlying problems nor are you knowledgable of any internal efforts to improve the products.
But, hey, this is a forum for lobbing unsubstantiated rumors and innuendo, so, have at it. I'm sure that no outsiders, recruits, prospective donors, or parents are reading this board.
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Legend [16646]
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Personally, I'd be very troubled by an AD
Jun 10, 2019, 1:10 PM
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That has to do a lot of terminating and hiring. That would be bad optics.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Dan Radakovich injured Clemson family. And we let him.
Jun 10, 2019, 2:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dan Radakovich injured Clemson family. And we let him. ] |
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Are you really giving Dan Radokovich the credit for the money pouring in because of football? do you really think he is deciding the prioritization of football facility improvements? That is where the overwhelming majority of work is being done and his job is to keep Dabo happy. At that he has not screwed at least. But, virtually anybody could do that job. That Doug Kingsmore improvements were planned and financed by Leggett's fundraising - at least that was accepted as truth 5-6 years ago on this board.
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110%er [5699]
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Re: Dan Radakovich injured Clemson family. And we let him.
Jun 10, 2019, 1:56 PM
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Thanks for posting as I not only watched the Part 2 video that you posted but also Parts 1,3 and 4
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Legend [18407]
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Re: Dan Radakovich injured Clemson family. And we let him.
Jun 10, 2019, 9:13 PM
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Yep, I appreciate you posting this too. Like HT2, I listened to them too, but in all honesty, HT2 and others have posted pretty much what CJL said.
I don’t know enough to say whether or not DRad is a good AD or not. Imho, Clemson is where it’s at because of Dabo. I have said this before, and been chewed a new one for it too, DRad says a lot of good stuff but the proofs in the pudding. I want to see the same support, passion, and desire for all sports at Clemson. Men and Women’s... sometimes I wonder if he does have a clue.
As for firing CJL, it was handled wrong and I question what was the basis. In these interviews, it sounds like DRad wasn’t willing to give Leggett the support he wanted and it was as if DRad wasn’t understanding the baseball landscape.
Now, that being said, if you just look at CJL’s recruit rankings in the ACC, his last 5 classes ranked 7,5,5,4, and 6 behind other ACC teams... let alone our arch rival was consistently ranked in the top ten- usually right around 5th. As Dabo proves, recruiting rankings mean little if you’re putting out a great product.
To me, firing Jack would be the same logic as firing Penley and saying that Penley hasn’t taken us to match play... and that’s crazy logic.
I do support Monte and will continue to support whoever the coach is in whatever sport the Tigers are in.
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Hall of Famer [24507]
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I agree that the Leggett situation could have been handled differently...
Jun 10, 2019, 3:14 PM
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But that being said, at the end of the day, Leggett HAD to go....
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Scout Team [153]
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Re: Dan Radakovich injured Clemson family. And we let him.
Jun 10, 2019, 9:48 PM
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I grew up G Tech and went to Clemson. D Rad is a builder and thats it. He hired Brian Gregory at Tech. He has kept Brownell three years too long. I rest my case.
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Orange Blooded [2634]
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Wow.
Jun 10, 2019, 10:09 PM
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Thanks for posting this. I support Monte and the current program, but didn't realize how poorly this was handled. Having worked with Jack in the past I can see how him and Dan Rad wouldn't get along, but that's no excuse for how Jack was treated. Really poor handling of things even if one assumes that Jack needed to go. Not sure which the worst move was out of this, running Jim Davis off, letting Trevor Adair go without letting legal issues play out, letting the Leones take another job, or the end of Kriese.
I miss Jack, but nice to see him less irritable than he was for awhile at the end. I think I may understand why now.
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CU Guru [1354]
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Re: Dan Radakovich injured Clemson family. And we let him.
Jun 10, 2019, 11:44 PM
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Leggett single handedly dismantled a superior Clemson baseball program. He should have been dismissed a year or two before he was.
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CU Medallion [64885]
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Radakovich did what had to be done in that situation.
Jun 11, 2019, 10:28 AM
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Since Leggett would not bow out on his own, there was never going to be a graceful way to get it done. Coaches who have been sucessful for a long time have a hard time admitting that their best is behind them.
We want to pillory the Old Ball Sac for leaving the Cawks the way he did, but the only real mistake he made (other than going there to begin with) was letting himself be talked into starting that season. He should have walked away the year before.
Jury still out on Monte Lee. I for one believe he should have more time to find what works for him here at Clemson. But, his results one way or the other do not change the fact that it was time for Leggett to go.
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Legend [15862]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7658
Joined: 12/4/06
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Re: Dan Radakovich injured Clemson family. And we let him.
Jun 11, 2019, 11:11 AM
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IMO Red Parker , Danny Ford and KH should be included in your list as well when giving examples of how not to fire somebody. Along with the 3 coaches listed above and Jack Leggett IMO these were a major embarrassment for the BOT, some of the Presidents involved such as Max Lennon, the AD’s and to some extent the fans themselves embarrassed Clemson University.
Let’s hope going forward we get it right. But let’s also hope we don’t have to go through a firing anytime soon.
Although I am not a CU grad, my daughter is as well as other close family members. I love Clemson just as much as 99% of the fans and it has been this way since I was a kid.
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