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Varsity [232]
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A few points regarding our quarterback situation:
Apr 7, 2018, 2:43 PM
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https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/453
TOTAL
PASS YDS
RANK NAME TEAM CL G PAS ATT PAS COMP COMP% YD/COMP INT YDS/INT PAS TD PAS YDS
1 Rudolph Okla. St. Sr. 13 489 318 65 15.4 9 545 37 4904
2 Mayfield Okla. Sr. 14 404 285 71 16.2 6 771 43 4627
3 Ferguson Memphis Sr. 13 474 299 63 14.2 9 473 38 4257
4 White W. Ky. Sr. 13 560 368 66 11.4 8 522 26 4177
5 Darnold S. Cal. So. 14 480 303 63 13.7 13 319 26 4143
25 Wolford W. Forest Sr. 12 374 239 64 13.4 6 532 29 3192
26 Stidham Auburn So. 14 370 246 66 12.8 6 526 18 3158
44 Bryant Clemson Jr. 14 398 262 66 7.0 8 350 13 2802
46 Bentley S. Car. So. 13 394 245 62 11.4 12 232 18 2794
From website data, I added the following categories; COMP%, YD/COMP, and YDS/INT.
DW’s effectiveness against Alabama reflected his accuracy and vision (finding receivers downfield, avoiding the rush, and picking running lanes). We struggled while winning a lot of games last year – we had a very good defense. Alabama clearly exposed our problems. IMO Hunter Johnson and Trevor Lawrence are the best quarterback pair of any team in the country and give us the best opportunity to beat playoff level competition.
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110%er [7992]
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Re: A few points regarding our quarterback situation:
Apr 7, 2018, 2:51 PM
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Great work except it does not account for who we lost at wr and TE from the previous year where we did not have a capable replacement on the roster
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Varsity [232]
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Re: A few points regarding our quarterback situation:
Apr 7, 2018, 3:02 PM
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First, sorry but the numbers shifted from their respective heading when I posted. To your point, I agree that we had a letdown from the previous year at TE. That was not the reason for our low passing yards per completion, low yards per interception, our relatively high number of interceptions for low risk passes.
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CU Medallion [58415]
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We missed Jordan Leggett and Mike Williams.
Apr 7, 2018, 11:28 PM
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A lot.
KB is no DW, nobody disputes that, but not having Legget and Williams, or anybody that could do what they did, played a major role in the ineffectiveness of our passing game against Alabama. It very well could have been a different story with those two; I think it's a mistake to put so much of that on KB. It is downright silly to talk about how good Johnson and Lawrence are at this stage.
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Legend [17605]
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Not on the same page with you on this one ...
Apr 8, 2018, 1:48 AM
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We keep hearing from Dabo that Clemson can win with all 4 QB's. We have heard from Dabo and Scott that Lawrence is special, calm under pressure, and further ahead & more ready than Watson was his freshman year. That's good enough enough for me. Put Lawrence in early in the season when he knows enough of the playbook and let him make some mistakes and get ready. Build the QB depth that the Tigers lacked in 2017 and get ready for the playoffs. Winning every game in the regular season is never easy, but Clemson is a clear favorite to do just that in 2018. And that's with any of the four QBs playing.
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CU Medallion [58415]
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I am 100% confident that if Lawrence gives us the best
Apr 8, 2018, 12:49 PM
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chance to win, he will play over the QB that gives us a lesser chance to win. If not, he won't. I'm not saying that Dabo and his staff are never wrong, I'm just pointing out that we don't have enough information to make that call compared to Dabo and Streeter, who know all of these young men personally, talk to them every day, see them practice every day, and have a complete understanding of every aspect of the offense and what it takes to make it go.
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CU Guru [1655]
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Re: We missed Jordan Leggett and Mike Williams.
Apr 8, 2018, 8:17 AM
[ in reply to We missed Jordan Leggett and Mike Williams. ] |
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Only difference is Williams would have caught some of the 50-50 balls Cain did not and there was no replacement for Jordan Leggett, but even if Leggett was there he would have been reduced to short passes because KB could not extend the field. He threw a few deep passes and hit the receivers in stride but that was rare.
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110%er [7992]
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Re: We missed Jordan Leggett and Mike Williams.
Apr 8, 2018, 1:04 PM
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Only difference is Williams would have caught some of the 50-50 balls Cain did not and there was no replacement for Jordan Leggett, but even if Leggett was there he would have been reduced to short passes because KB could not extend the field. He threw a few deep passes and hit the receivers in stride but that was rare.
What you are missing is with Leggett in the game defenses have to account for him which means one less blitz body or one less free DB covering the field. It’s more than just the number of passes caught by the TE...
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110%er [6886]
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CU Medallion [58415]
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Absolutely.***
Apr 8, 2018, 10:15 AM
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Good morning Smiling & too much might be made of MW...
Apr 8, 2018, 9:23 AM
[ in reply to We missed Jordan Leggett and Mike Williams. ] |
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as he wasn't playing in 2015, yet Clemson put up 405 yards passing and 40 points on Bama in the title game. Clemson's greatest deep threat was sent home as well, when DC pissed hot? Did MW make some individual plays that DC was learning to manage? Yeps, but DC had no problem taking the top off with DW4 dropping the ball in the bucket over the top.
2015 34 582 17.1/ 5 tds
2016 38 724 19.1/ 9 tds
2017 58 734 12.7/ 6 tds
Clemson's offense was actually rated higher in 2015[than 2016] - without MW, while Art Scott, Charone Peake[out of pos] & Hunter Renfrow, unknown for the most at the time, manned the WR spots. Hunter had to beat out, supplant GHop for the starting spot during the reg. and only caught 33 balls for the season.
Jordan Leggett is a conundrum of sorts, a better target in the passing game, probably more of a liability inline blocking. Was he missed in the passing game. Sure, but DW4 immediately makes Milan Richard a lot better, but no, you can't make him 6'5", 260 - big target in JL.
If you look at the numbers at the 2 spot alone, 2015 AS & RRIII[49 catches as back-up] caught 125 balls for ~1,100 yards & 7 tds? In 2016 RRIII[49 catches as starter] & AR caught 68 balls for ~626 yards & 1 td? A lot of production lost there, very telling for me as the 2 had become such a high volume target, Art Scott owning the Clemson receptions record.
There are numerous possibilities/reasons for the fall off, losing 2 senior leaders in MW & JL certainly mattered, no doubt, but I'd shoulder most of it on KB2 individually & the staff managing some things while wanting to reel it in by limiting turnovers and/or not putting the ball at risk, something they harped on coming into the season. KB2 had a short leash, where DW4 was given free rein over audibles, pre-snap adjustments...
The thing that I'll continue to point to in hopes KB2 gets better is what Renfrow said was the greatest difference between DW4 & Kelly B.
HR said, DW4 scrambled with his eyes downfield, looking to make plays in the passing game first and always, while when KB2 scrambled, he did so to run. Huge difference in making things happen downfield, keeping the defense honest.
Going to be another crazy post spring game into the Summer and then fall camp. Haha, can't wait.
Happy Sunday @Smiling Tiger®, enjoy.
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CU Medallion [58415]
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DW was a better downfield passer than KB has been,
Apr 8, 2018, 11:47 AM
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all other things being equal, and that impacted our offense without a doubt. No argument about that whatsoever.
You know the Disraeli/Twain quote about lies and statistics as well as I do. Not saying you are lying, of course, but I'm just not sure the stats you use prove anything. As far as I'm concerned, we don't beat Alabama for the title in 2017 (2016 season) without Watson, Williams, Leggett, and Gallman (I left him out of my previous post, but his role was significant). It's clear to me that we missed all of them in the 2018 playoff game. It's just my opinion based on my observation, but our receivers had a lot more trouble getting open against Bama this past year than they did previous years, and more trouble making the tough catches. DW had to make the throws, for sure, but without MW making some spectacular, very physical catches, or Leggett getting open for a few key plays, it doesn't matter how good DW was. I think Bama had a lot to do with that; the individual matchups were simply less favorable for us, plus Bama played with a chip on their shoulder that was not there the previous year.
Looking back and analyzing, it's all a matter of opinion, and we'll never know or prove anything. Going forward, I want the QB that gives us the best chance to win, and I'm hoping that includes an improved downfield passing game, whether it be Bryant, Johnson, Lawrence, Brice, or DSP. I always enjoy your take, and Happy Sunday to you as well.
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Associate AD [814]
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Re: A few points regarding our quarterback situation:
Apr 8, 2018, 9:06 AM
[ in reply to Re: A few points regarding our quarterback situation: ] |
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Dude it doesn’t matter. What’s the difference between Cain being overthrown or Mike Williams being overthrown? It didn’t matter who KB had around him he cannot throw downfield. He also cannot read defenses and won’t stay in the pocket. He can only beat decent teams
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Oculus Spirit [83121]
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KB2s running and passing was our best offensive weapon
Apr 7, 2018, 2:56 PM
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last year.
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Varsity [232]
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Re: KB2s running and passing was our best offensive weapon
Apr 7, 2018, 3:04 PM
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I don't believe that KB has the running back skills to lead our running attack. I think that we have plenty of good running backs.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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WRs made great catches for DW, they dropped the ball for KB
Apr 7, 2018, 3:32 PM
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Mike Williams and Jordan Leggett made several catches against Alabama that helped DW. The WRs did virtually nothing this year against Bama to help KB.
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110%er [6281]
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Re: WRs made great catches for DW, they dropped the ball for KB
Apr 7, 2018, 3:42 PM
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Agreed. I do think DW is better and played better but he also had more help. It is also a huge difference having a grown Wayne Train for pp instead of young ETN and Feastmode.
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110%er [5024]
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Re: KB2s running and passing was our best offensive weapon
Apr 7, 2018, 3:42 PM
[ in reply to KB2s running and passing was our best offensive weapon ] |
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I think that's a bit unfair to say considering Bryant has ZERO pocket presence and abandoned the pocket before plays could develop...
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110%er [6281]
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Re: A few points regarding our quarterback situation:
Apr 7, 2018, 3:40 PM
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You do realize DW4 had Mike Williams and Jordan Leggett to throw to as well right? I know DW4 is better than KB2 but he had better weapons as well. Now we have talent at WR and TE but not the growth and talent combo that Williams, Scott, and Leggett had.
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Varsity [232]
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Re: A few points regarding our quarterback situation:
Apr 7, 2018, 4:09 PM
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Willians and Leggett were excellent. The point is that our obvious problem last year was not our level of talent at receiver or TE - it was clearly the quarterback. If our receivers had played for other teams, do you think their quarterback would have averaged 7 yds per completion? Of course not.
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110%er [6281]
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Re: A few points regarding our quarterback situation:
Apr 8, 2018, 4:21 AM
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Yes it was clearly our QB that was the problem. We lost to Cuse when he was injured and missed half the game but yes he was our problem. Lmao.
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Legend [17605]
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Here we go again ...
Apr 8, 2018, 1:33 AM
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Was it the chicken or was it the egg? We have 3-4 good QB's. Two were ranked tops in country for high school. Trent Dilfer said one of them has the talent but not the experience to be an NFL starter, and Dilfer likes Dabo & Clemson but fails to understand why all these good QB's are wasting their time on the same team. Our 1st year starter played most of last year, and much of it with an injured ankle. He was never the same after the ankle sprain as he's a dual threat QB who relies on the run and threat of the run to keep the Defense honest for hit-and-miss passing consistency. Much of the Tiger fan base blamed the receivers and O-Line for the starting QB's inconsistent play. Three O-linemen were named 1st team All-ACC - just like the year before. The other two O-Line starters were voted 3rd team and honorable mention All-ACC. And two Clemson WR's made 3rd team All-ACC and one made HM despite the very limited vertical passing threat from Tigers. Opposing Defenses camped on the line and waited on predictable runs and short throws. It typically didn't matter as this 2017 Tiger team had one of the best Defenses in Clemson history and enough Offensive skill sets that Clemson won all but one regular season game. Youth at RB made the blocking suspect and the starting QB took some hits and failed to be recognized with even Honorable Mention All-ACC. After a great year, especially against Auburn, Gamecocks and Hurricanes, the Tigers met their match when Bama predictably stacked the line, blitzed to QB's on-film tendencies, and shut down the RB's and QB run. This left only short passes in the coaching playbook. Clemson coaches feared or maybe just declined going to the vertical pass or going to another QB against Bama. And Clemson fans were right who said the backup QBs were not proven - they had rarely played even when the starter was too hurt to walk much less run against Syracuse. So here we are again. And what will happen at QB as the year plays out? Will the coaches seek to build any QB depth? Will the coaches show more confidence in vertical passing game to take the pressure off this past year's "eight men in the box" line of scrimmage? We are all pulling for the Tigers to win it all with 14-15 talented returning starters. Only time will tell. And yes, go Tigers! All of them!
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Haha, no, here you go again & I'm sure there'll be others...
Apr 8, 2018, 8:45 AM
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that follow.
Happy Sunday SocMan2®, enjoy your day.
Go Tigers.
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CU Guru [1655]
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Re: A few points regarding our quarterback situation:
Apr 8, 2018, 8:11 AM
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IMHO, Last Year, which is what was last year, KB could not throw a deep pass consistently, he could not stretch the field. Bama loaded the box, brought pressure and they played very tight coverage. If we had a deep threat, a legit deep threat and a QB that could throw anything other than a 50-50 ball they may have had to honor that. we also got exposed at pass blocking, ETN; for all the excitement he brought, was not up for the pass blocking task.
KB is good QB, the team follows him. They went as far as he could take them, that was the semi's. I'm not sure if a guy can "learn" to see the field, feel pressure and step up in the pocket (another thing KB did not do very well, if he stepped up he usually took off) and find the guys who are open. Something DW4 was very good at.
Looking forward to see if we can manage our QB situation.... too many QB's with too much talent for them all to stick around. Only one can start.
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CU Guru [1261]
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Re: A few points regarding our quarterback situation:
Apr 8, 2018, 9:07 AM
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Kelly Bryant did a good job last year,better than I thought he would. He is a good runner but not a good passer. Trevor Lawrence is apparently a very rare talent. KB can beat most teams but he is not a great quarterback. Don't play "not to lose"but play the best quarterback and play to win it all. Make the right decision before the season starts and be done with it. All these guys did not come back to play scared. Nut up and let it go. Screw politically correct.
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Commissioner [961]
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Re: A few points regarding our quarterback situation:
Apr 8, 2018, 12:59 PM
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We struggled way more in ‘16 than in ‘17. Just look at the scores and the opposition. Should be obvious even to the most casual observer.
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50
