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Tiger Cub [14]
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10 to 20 years?
Jan 21, 2015, 4:05 PM
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Look, I love Clemson and everything about it. Every season I look forward to going to Death Valley, watching the Tigers rub The Rock and run down the Hill and yelling until I'm hoarse. These are just a couple of reasons that makes Clemson so special. I mean let's be honest, it's a billion times better than running thru fire extinguishers.
But I think there is something a little off about taking away 10 years of a young man's life because of vandalism. Community service, fines, hell, ban him from the games. But destroying his life for vandalization isn't something we should be aiming for.
What he did was stupid and should be punished. But shouldn't the punishment fit the crime? As a fan base, instead of nailing this kid to the wall, couldn't we just use Howards Rock as a symbol to show that through adversity we still stand up and fight back and won't be pushed around?
I know there are going to be some, if anyone reads this, that tells me to get bent, go to hell, go ahead and trash all of my Clemson stuff and pull for the Coots. But to anyone that is rational, is it worth taking away someone's future over a symbol?
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CU Medallion [51531]
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I think this would be a whole different story
Jan 21, 2015, 4:08 PM
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had the case been off when he snuck inside DV and then he took off a chunk. The fact that he broke off the protective case is what's going to make his punishment more severe.
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Tiger Cub [14]
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Re: I think this would be a whole different story
Jan 21, 2015, 4:14 PM
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Ok. But it's still not cool for 10 years for an apparently cheap plastic case. Not like he had to break into Fort Knox. I forgot to mention trespassing to but still...
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Orange Blooded [2455]
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If he doesn't get punished, we set a scary precedent
Jan 21, 2015, 5:22 PM
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Oh, he got off without jail time? Maybe I should go deface/steal a Clemson artifact. It won't be a big deal, they'll just let me off with some community service.
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CU Guru [1898]
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He will probably get very little jail time. As a
Jan 22, 2015, 12:45 AM
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bargaining chip, I would insist that he show places where he placed or threw pieces of the rock - and go to great lengths to find as many remnants as possible.
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All-In [40929]
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that would be admitting guilt
Jan 22, 2015, 2:25 AM
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I doubt his coot lawyer would let him do that
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CU Guru [1925]
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10 years does seem like a bit much
Jan 21, 2015, 4:13 PM
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I'd almost be willing to agree to drop all charges if he gives the rock back.
Almost.
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110%er [8984]
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10 years is too much***
Jan 21, 2015, 4:16 PM
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Commissioner [977]
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Re: 10 years is too much***
Jan 21, 2015, 4:20 PM
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I think this newer charge has been brought up so that he will plead guilty to lesser charge and go to court and get this over with. We are all tired of his shamecocks lawyer and his delaying tactics. I think this is a way to get this over quicker.
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110%er [8984]
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that makes sense, on another note how
Jan 21, 2015, 4:22 PM
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do I get rid of these *** that keep following me around
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Legend [19944]
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The *** indicate that your comment is all title
Jan 21, 2015, 4:24 PM
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and no body.
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110%er [8984]
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thanks!
Jan 21, 2015, 4:28 PM
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nm
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Legend [19944]
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TL;DR this pointless post
Jan 21, 2015, 4:23 PM
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Yes, the MAXIMUM sentence for "grand larceny and malicious injury to property valued at more than $10,000" may well be 10 years, but there's zero chance he will ever serve that time.. even if convicted of those charges. Most likely he will plead to lesser charges and do community service, probation, pay a fine, etc. I'd say at most he could see 6 months in jail, maybe, but I doubt it.
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CU Medallion [64589]
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First of all, it's more than just a simple case of vandalism
Jan 21, 2015, 4:29 PM
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The charges are grand larceny, malicious injury to property worth more than $10,000, and trespassing.
Second, the higher charges, each of which carry a potential sentence of 10 to 20 years in prision, are the maximum sentences allowable.
It is highly unlikely the court would impose the maximum sentence allowable.
If found guilty, he'll likely get-off with very little if any jail time at all, a hefty fine, and be forced to make restitution to the University in addition to paying court costs and fees.
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Oculus Spirit [93667]
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...and a felony conviction.***
Jan 21, 2015, 6:09 PM
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110%er [8681]
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Re: 10 to 20 years?
Jan 21, 2015, 4:51 PM
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Honestly he'll probably get very little jail time if any at all, a ton of community service, and a year or 2 of probation.
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CU Guru [1497]
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You guys need to give it a rest.
Jan 21, 2015, 5:04 PM
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Yes, 10 years and $10,000 is the maximum sentence a judge could impose...
The prosecutors will hold this over the kid's head, he will admit that he trespassed and damaged the property and accept a plea deal.
He will end up with a 3 year suspended sentence and something like 5 to 8 years of probation, meaning he will have to check in with a parole officer once a month for at least 5 years, be drug tested regularly, etc.
He will have to notify his PO of any movements around and out-of-state, and will probably never be allowed to set foot in Clemson again as a condition of his suspended sentence.
The kid won't spend any time behind bars unless he violates the terms of his probation, he will also probably have to pay around $5K restitution to Clemson University in monthly increments as the judge sees fit.
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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well said, i agree***
Jan 21, 2015, 5:43 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93667]
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A felony conviction will ruin his life.
Jan 21, 2015, 6:08 PM
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Six months on the chain gang will be enough on top of the conviction.
If the monkeychit has any brains he's negotiate the return of the piece of the rock for a reduced charge with a guilty plea. If he rolls the dice trying to get off scot free he deserves what he gets.
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110%er [5776]
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Perhaps since somebody paints on my wall once a month
Jan 21, 2015, 10:18 PM
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I sort of don't share your assessment that boys will be boys. I will tell you that I do not wait with a loaded shotgun to kill whoever is doing this to our property. That is my special consideration for my fellowman. Otherwise, ten years is fine with me for him to have to think things over.
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Heisman Winner [111572]
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Re: 10 to 20 years?
Jan 21, 2015, 10:21 PM
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As much as I love our traditions, if that kid were to be sent up the river for ten years over this, it would be a tragedy and a black eye on this program.
Maybe ask yourself, what would Frank Howard have to say about this?
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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Rogers did "lifetime" damage to the Rock, a symbol of our
Jan 22, 2015, 7:12 AM
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family. So why shouldn't he be burdened with a relative long-term punishment?
So make him run 10 40's under 5.2 every day for the next 10 years. Then he'll think outside of his, "Duh, what outside-the-lines fun can I have in the next 10 minutes paradigm."
I think ol' Frank would approve - he might even sit up to watch....
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CU Guru [1692]
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Oh come one people
Jan 21, 2015, 10:28 PM
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No one here is thick enough to think the kid is actually going to get 10 years in prison. Its meant to scare him into pleading out a lower charge to make it easy on the system.
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Heisman Winner [111572]
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Re: Oh come one people
Jan 21, 2015, 10:30 PM
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you are probably right, in esscense he damaged a rock of techically no value. They got him for vandalizing a display case and petit theft.
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CU Guru [1692]
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Re: Oh come one people
Jan 21, 2015, 11:36 PM
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The prosecution valued the rock at over $10,000. I mean ask yourself this question: If it were put on ebay, would people bid money to own it? If the answer to that question is yes then it technically has value. No one would spend money on a rock I go outside and pick up, but people would spend plenty of money to own one of the more famous college football artifacts in existence. That's why assigning it a value is so arbitrary. I mean technically a diamond is "just a rock", but we (as a society) have arbitrarily assigned a great value to it due to how rare it is. Well there's only one Howard's rock (maybe 2?). It has a decently large value because of its rarity and the history surrounding it. When the story broke my dad said "who cares, its just a rock". But clearly to us it has more value than "just a rock". No how you equate that with a monetary value escapes me, but I'm going to respectfully disagree with your "in essence" conclusion. Someone would be willing to pay money for Howard's rock specifically, meaning technically it does have real, monetary value and should be treated the same as if someone vandalized your car, or house, causing $x.xx worth of damage.
Message was edited by: tigerfan22334®
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CU Medallion [60228]
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Updyke has to pay Auburn $800,000 for the trees
Jan 22, 2015, 8:30 AM
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he killed.
Updyke served six months in prison after poisoning the trees at Auburn's Toomer's Corner, but along with his jail sentence he was also ordered by a judge to pay $800,000 in restitution to the school.
And of course, this A-hole (capital "A"), hasn't paid squat of it.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24704325/harvey-updyke-has-only-paid-99-of-the-800000-he-owes-auburn
You could compare this to the Rock.
If some guy poisoned a couple oaks in my front yard, would he get fined $800,000? No. But he damaged/killed a priceless relic. Same with this Rogers kid.
I'd have no problem with him being fined something in the high 6-figures. Prison is not really appropriate in my opinion. But this cannot go without severe punishment, as it is way beyond simple "vandalism".
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All-TigerNet [10929]
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Has his gamecock lawyer used the....
Jan 22, 2015, 11:21 AM
[ in reply to Oh come one people ] |
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"It used to be a door stop, for goodness sakes" defense yet?
Per wiki...
In the early 1960s, the rock was given to then head coach Frank Howard by a friend, Samuel Columbus Jones (Clemson Class of 1919). It was presented to Howard by Jones, saying "Here's a rock from Death Valley, California, to Death Valley, South Carolina." Howard didn't think anything else about the rock and it was used as a door stop in his office for several years. In September 1966, while cleaning out his office, Howard noticed the rock and told IPTAY executive director Gene Willimon, "Take this rock and throw it over the fence or out in the ditch...do something with it, but get it out of my office.
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Orange Blooded [3257]
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If guilty and can produce the rock.....6 months at most.
Jan 21, 2015, 10:28 PM
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No rock.....have to wait and see.
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Walk-On [105]
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Re: 10 to 20 years?
Jan 21, 2015, 11:19 PM
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10 years behind bars seems like a bit much to me too... but there's no way he will be sentenced the max penalty as a first time offender.
I'm not sure the prosecution would be willing to accept a plea deal this late in the game... considering they've been dealing with this case for more than a year and half now. I'm sure the state offered a deal of some sort in the beginning (& one that had to look a hell of a lot better than the Grand Larceny felony charge looks to him right now) in an attempt to get the rock back... but apparently... he's not only disloyal; he's an idiot.
I'd be okay with--
6 months to a year in jail (knowing he will only serve approximately half that)
5 years probation
a lifetime ban from all property owned by Clemson
and a hefty fine to the school for restitution.
If convicted, he'll likely get--
30 days in jail
2-3 years probation
some form of ban from all property owned by Clemson
and a fine equal to or above the value given to the rock.
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Enthusiast [120]
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Re: 10 to 20 years?
Jan 22, 2015, 12:33 AM
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He's not gonna get prison time lets just make that clear.
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All-In [40929]
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There is zero chance he get's the maximum sentence
Jan 22, 2015, 2:23 AM
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unless he has a really bad rap sheet. Even then, it's just not happening.
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All-In [36450]
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First of all he won't get 10 years.
Jan 22, 2015, 7:28 AM
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If he gets anytime it will be 2-4 years and then with good behavior and community service he will be out in 1.
2nd, he did this to himself. And sometimes people have to face the consequences for their actions. He knew what he was doing was wrong.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Well that won't happen, but think of this theft this way...
Jan 22, 2015, 8:32 AM
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How you feel if you read in the paper that John Doe broke into a museum, stole a pretty famous and valuable work of art, severely damaged it in the process, and was subsequently sentenced to 10 years in prison (of which they would maybe serve like 2)? That's essentially what happened here. The rock has very real value in addition to the sentimental value to all Clemson fans. If it went up for auction how much do you think somebody would be willing to pay to own it? It would probably be the absolute pinnacle of Clemson memorabilia.
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All-In [25393]
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Interesting question regarding its value in an auction.
Jan 22, 2015, 8:39 AM
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Imagine being a die-hard Clemson fan, having a hefty bank account and the chance to own Howard's Rock!
$10,000 wouldn't even begin to touch it (no pun intended.)
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Nope, i would have to think it would be somewhere in
Jan 22, 2015, 8:41 AM
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the 6-figure range.
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All-TigerNet [10498]
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In all likelihood won't get anywhere close to ten years
Jan 22, 2015, 8:40 AM
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As many others have said, that charge is just posturing by the prosecution. My theory is he refused to plead guilty to the misdemeanor charges or disclose where the missing part of the rock is. By charging him with a more severe offense, this may well encourage one or both of those to happen in exchange for dropping the felony charges.
I don't feel bad for the kid at all. You make stupid decisions, you have to face the consequences.
Message was edited by: CTiger423®
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