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Replies: 41
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CU Medallion [73569]
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All-In [47796]
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joe should resign in disgrace so champion of the
Mar 22, 2021, 12:54 PM
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immigrants Kamaalalamala can take over
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All-TigerNet [11639]
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It's a Democrat voter incubator. C'mon man.***
Mar 22, 2021, 1:27 PM
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All-In [40933]
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Re: Ruhroh. Kids in cages leaked photos
Mar 22, 2021, 1:29 PM
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CU Medallion [73569]
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HA, forgot about that. Classic***
Mar 22, 2021, 1:40 PM
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All-TigerNet [10887]
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Wow, Joe's running concentration camps.***
Mar 22, 2021, 1:53 PM
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Legend [15749]
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Yikes. The MSM is going to destroy Biden over this.
Mar 22, 2021, 2:10 PM
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! HAAAA! HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Oh my goodness! Can you...can you imagine...Haaaa. Ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaa........aha...
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All-In [34108]
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I assume you're already checking into this?
Mar 22, 2021, 2:44 PM
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Usually when people whine about what the "MSM" isn't reporting, it's followed by examples of the MSM actually reporting on the thing.
At that point, the whining people change their story: It's being reported, sure, but not the right way.
So are we still at part one of this, before someone concerned with reality finds out what the "MSM" actually reports on?
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All-In [26968]
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I never have understood what "MSM" means.
Mar 22, 2021, 3:23 PM
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Like, how does one get to be in that group. Is Fox News not "MSM," even though they're the biggest one?
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All-In [26968]
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Seems like it's actually "media I don't like"
Mar 22, 2021, 3:27 PM
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So, MIDL, not MSM
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All-In [42169]
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I literally means nothing.
Mar 22, 2021, 3:31 PM
[ in reply to I never have understood what "MSM" means. ] |
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It's spouted by people who believe conspiracies and think they're all one giant, organized, unified leftist sinister organization bent on pushing an agenda.
It would be like claiming Ford, GM, Dodge, et al, were all giant unified evil auto producers bent on making all of us drive the same car.
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Legend [15749]
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Mainstream Media doesn't mean "nothing". It is a
Mar 22, 2021, 8:49 PM
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categorization of media outlets typically considered more "established" and "traditional". It has gray areas but to pretend it doesn't exist is like saying fruit doesn't exist because we're not sure what a tomato is.
Your objections derive from Conservatives who generally will carve out a couple of more Conservative outlets (Fox News and WSJ) or Trump supporters who will carve out Trump supporting outlets (Fox News) and lump of MSM into a grouping of left leaning, biased "news" outlets. Which is fine if you disagree. We clearly see journalism differently. I will say, however, that there doesn't have to be an illuminati-level conspiracy for there to be an agenda in the MSM, and although I'm sure there are some that believe that exists, claiming that's what everyone who has a gripe about the MSM thinks is just a strawman. There's (probably) no such conspiracy in public education, higher education or Hollywood either. It could simply be a mindset drawn to such industries, which leads to a culture in such industries, which feeds on itself.
Or we could be a bunch of right-wing wackos. Whatever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream_media#:~:text=Mainstream%20media%20(MSM)%20is%20a,to%20contrast%20with%20alternative%20media.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/mainstream-media mainstream media mainstream media meaning: 1. forms of the media, especially traditional forms such as newspapers, television, and radio…. Learn more.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/mainstream-media Definition of mainstream media | Dictionary.com Mainstream media definition, the traditional forms of mass media, as television, radio, magazines, and newspapers, as opposed to online means of mass communication. Abbreviation: MSM See more.
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Heisman Winner [111601]
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Re: Mainstream Media doesn't mean "nothing". It is a
Mar 23, 2021, 4:40 AM
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it basically means these people are educated professionals that entered into the field through traditional means, you know, like attending Columbia school of journalism, finishing top of their class, only to enter the workforce as a stringer making 25k a year to do a thankless job that their editors end up demolishing at the end of every work day due to conflicts of interests with corporate.
Then we have the chiropractors of the profession(not main stream), the guys that failed out of journalism school, attended trinity college and spend the rest of their career spouting off about how corrupt the mainstream media is, you know, like Tucker Carlson. He is a chiropractor, as in no, you do not have a slipped disc and need surgery, just come see me every week and I will make you feel good for about 30 minutes, then back to your miserable life full of back pain. I'll lie to you about your problems so they never get fixed, but you will keep coming to me for the solutions.
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Legend [15749]
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I see we agree that the MSM is a "thing".
Mar 23, 2021, 9:20 AM
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And I enjoyed the chiropractor analogy. Clever.
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All-In [26510]
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All-In [42169]
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Sure it does.
Mar 23, 2021, 8:41 AM
[ in reply to Mainstream Media doesn't mean "nothing". It is a ] |
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It's a made-up term in the sense to paint the media as this amorphous, unified blob that works with an agenda. Do this. Tell me exactly which news sources make up that list. Make no omissions. Give me the exact list.
Your objections derive from Conservatives who generally will carve out a couple of more Conservative outlets (Fox News and WSJ) or Trump supporters who will carve out Trump supporting outlets (Fox News) and lump of MSM into a grouping of left leaning, biased "news" outlets. Which is fine if you disagree.
Yes, this is the problem. It's a fabricated concept by their definition.
We clearly see journalism differently.
I continue to fail to understand why you don't hear me on this. I'm the one who knows this subject. I know the industry. If you want to educate me on your areas of expertise, I'm all ears. But it's not this.
I will say, however, that there doesn't have to be an illuminati-level conspiracy for there to be an agenda in the MSM, and although I'm sure there are some that believe that exists, claiming that's what everyone who has a gripe about the MSM thinks is just a strawman.
Sorry, but your average news room is a massive mess of editors, reporters, photographers, and layout people who are fighting, arguing, miscommunicating, and yelling over what will go in the ####### teasers. They can't even get their own agenda straight let alone work with other media outlets to push one.
There's (probably) no such conspiracy in public education, higher education or Hollywood either. It could simply be a mindset drawn to such industries, which leads to a culture in such industries, which feeds on itself.
There isn't. I hope you don't even have an inkling of a thought there is. I did raise my eyebrows a little bit when you mentioned social media companies favoring one political party. I hope you aren't drifting conspiracy-wards.
It's not really a shock that Hollywood has a lot of leftists. You remember the drama kids in high school? As for public education, that all boils down to location demographics. People pay too much attention to the teachers' unions in a few states and thus think that represents the ideology of most teachers. Hell, I would wager most people running school districts on the office level lean right.
And finally, in any speech, argument, or piece of writing, never, ever quote the dictionary. And I notice Cambridge didn't give me that list...
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Legend [15749]
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Who is not hearing who?
Mar 23, 2021, 9:19 AM
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It's a made-up term in the sense to paint the media as this amorphous, unified blob that works with an agenda.
It is NOT a term made-up to paint the media as this amorphous, unified blob the works with an agenda. It is a term to differentiate it from the slew of random newsletters and websites that have popped up on the internet.
Do this. Tell me exactly which news sources make up that list. Make no omissions. Give me the exact list.
I feel like I'm eating crazy pills. Did the tomato analogy not work? Does Country Music exist if you can't tell me exactly who is and isn't a Country Music singer?
I continue to fail to understand why you don't hear me on this. I'm the one who knows this subject. I know the industry. If you want to educate me on your areas of expertise, I'm all ears. But it's not this."
Sure, you think this. And what I see when I read your comments on this industry is an emotional need to defend something that you feel ownership in. Respectfully, I don't consider you the authority on this industry and we can probably put "Hey, I know a lot about this and you don't" to rest on the message board. Or just ignore my posts on the topic as the ignorant ramblings you consider them to be.
Sorry, but your average news room is a massive mess of editors, reporters, photographers, and layout people who are fighting, arguing, miscommunicating, and yelling over what will go in the ####### teasers. They can't even get their own agenda straight let alone work with other media outlets to push one.
It is precisely that chaotic, fast-paced environment where inherent biases will flow through to print without anyone stopping it and saying "My goodness, we are coloring the perspective on this completely differently than we did when _______ was in office."
There isn't. I hope you don't even have an inkling of a thought there is. I did raise my eyebrows a little bit when you mentioned social media companies favoring one political party. I hope you aren't drifting conspiracy-wards.
Do you just not read what I write? I specifically point out that there need not be a conspiracy for an industry or organization to develop a culture in support of a political party. Social Media is another easy example. It is certainly not crazy to think that an industry whose epicenter is the San Francisco area would lean heavily left.
And finally, in any speech, argument, or piece of writing, never, ever quote the dictionary. And I notice Cambridge didn't give me that list...
The question at hand is whether or not MSM is a thing. I was illustrating that it is.
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All-In [42169]
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Re: Who is not hearing who?
Mar 23, 2021, 9:34 AM
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We'll just number your points for quick reading:
1. That's not how the term MSM is used here or on fringe sites/shows. Is a podunk little newspaper out in Iowa considered part of the "MSM"?
2. No, it didn't. Neither does the country one. Because I'm not using the term "country music" to label all music I hate or paint it as having an agenda (although with today's country music, we could argue the agenda is to put out pure ####).
3. Eh, I'm an authority on it. Your assumption that I'm not is the only ignorance here. But I'm used to people thinking they know a lot about the journalism industry and pretending they do on this board. If I tried to tell you what's up on a professional level in an area of your expertise, you'd lose your mind. I don't come on this board and try to tell engineers how they should build bridges.
That being said, you've posted some pretty gross mischaracterizations of how the journalism industry works and, by your own admission, when asked to back up those claims, you decline to because it's apparently too much work or something.
Even as Spoon points out here, there's been many a "they aren't covering it!" sentiment from you which then morphs into "but they aren't covering it how I want them to" once proven that they are.
4. No. That's not how that works. There are many, many cogs in the machine in a newsroom pointing out, "Hey, maybe we shouldn't do it like that." But by all means, feel free to describe the newsroom environments you've witnessed where you have seen this happen.
5. I'm thinking you didn't read what I wrote. I explained how Hollywood would be that way. The perception over education is a false one (pushed by the right-wing fringe media). The social media one is a new made-up one because they policed Trump and his followers' violation of their terms of service. Social media outlets have been a massive forum for all political viewpoints and are not pushing any agenda. When I open up Facebook and see nothing but Zuckerberg posts supporting Dems, I'll change my mind. Until then, it's still just everyone's political rants, baby pics, and stupid memes.
6. Again, how the term "MSM" is used here and in the fringe right-wing circles is meant to be derogatory and conspiracy-driven.
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Legend [15749]
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Re: Who is not hearing who?
Mar 23, 2021, 9:49 AM
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1. That's not how the term MSM is used here or on fringe sites/shows. Is a podunk little newspaper out in Iowa considered part of the "MSM"?
2. No, it didn't. Neither does the country one. Because I'm not using the term "country music" to label all music I hate or paint it as having an agenda (although with today's country music, we could argue the agenda is to put out pure ####).
Huh. It's almost like "[y]our objections derive from Conservatives who generally will carve out a couple of more Conservative outlets (Fox News and WSJ) or Trump supporters who will carve out Trump supporting outlets (Fox News) and lump of MSM into a grouping of left leaning, biased "news" outlets." So weird. I wish someone had pointed that out before.
3. Eh, I'm an authority on it. Your assumption that I'm not is the only ignorance here. But I'm used to people thinking they know a lot about the journalism industry and pretending they do on this board. If I tried to tell you what's up on a professional level in an area of your expertise, you'd lose your mind. I don't come on this board and try to tell engineers how they should build bridges.
Rest assured, we all know you consider yourself an authority on the topic. I'm okay with you not respecting my opinion but I'm not changing it based on "trust me, I know this industry...there's no bias" because I see it. As the cliché goes, I don't know how to run a restaurant but I know when my meal is terrible.
6. Again, how the term "MSM" is used here and in the fringe right-wing circles is meant to be derogatory and conspiracy-driven.
Correct. Again, if only someone had pointed that out before...
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All-In [42169]
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Re: Who is not hearing who?
Mar 23, 2021, 10:00 AM
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On point 2, it seems we are violently agreeing here. And that's the crux of my issue with the term.
On point 3, there are many, many people and organizations that consider me "an authority" on the topic. I supposed I don't have to prove it to a random guy on the Internet. If he's going to dismiss my expertise on the matter because of his own biases, that's his prerogative.
And I have never, ever argued that there isn't a problem with bias in the industry. I will flat-out admit it exists for all major cable news networks. Most of the claims of bias on this board are ridiculous and false.
So sure, we can run with your restaurant analogy. Of course you can tell me if a meal isn't to your liking if I'm the chef. But what you engage in on here is trying to tell me how the process occurs in the kitchen and all the working parts that go behind it when all you experience is the waiter taking your order and bringing you the food. And your one meal is just a small sampling of what the chef has to offer.
But, if you want to show me up here, please give me a step-by-step process of how information is gathered, written, reported on, and the process it goes through with the editors, copy desk, and layout coordinators. You know, just a basic run down to how a story is covered and born on the pages of a newspaper (or print news website). Maybe you can tell me what's changed in the industry.
On point 6, again, violently agreeing here...
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Legend [15749]
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Re: Who is not hearing who?
Mar 23, 2021, 10:29 AM
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But, if you want to show me up here,
I have absolutely no interest in this.
But what you engage in on here is trying to tell me how the process occurs in the kitchen and all the working parts that go behind it when all you experience is the waiter taking your order and bringing you the food. And your one meal is just a small sampling of what the chef has to offer.
How have I done what you described? Have I anywhere tried to say definitively what the inner workings of the journalism industry looks like? I don't recall having ever done that. What I HAVE done is give my impression of the end product, declared my opinion of a general issue with the industry, and hypothesized as to how that might come about. In no way do I consider myself an expert on this industry and I'm not sure how I would have indicated otherwise. I will say, though, that it's not one meal...it's a consist product delivered and tested over many years. Whatever is going on in the kitchen is producing a bad product.
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All-In [42169]
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Re: Who is not hearing who?
Mar 23, 2021, 10:58 AM
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I have absolutely no interest in this.
Yes, I know. Because you do not know this process. I do. This covers the basics. It's making grilled cheese as a chef. It's learning ball handling fundamentals as a basketball player. It's the intro biology class to a doctor. It's learning how to mount the horse for a cowboy.
That's a simple litmus test to show that I know more about this industry than you. Now, I'm 100 percent certain that whatever industry you specialize in, you know 1,000 times more and then some about it than I do. And I wouldn't dare challenge it. That's where you need to flip the roles here. What would be your reaction if some rando who you know didn't know a lot about your arena tried to claim he knew more about it than you. Or, was at least, dismissive of your knowledge?
Now the only person engaging in real folly here is me as I'm trying to convince a complete stranger that I know more about this stuff than he does when I already know I do. For that, shame on me.
But one of the important traits of a journalist is that when challenged to prove a claim or knowledge, he seeks to do so. By your own admission, you want to avoid that on this topic while instead insisting you know more.
How have I done what you described? Have I anywhere tried to say definitively what the inner workings of the journalism industry looks like? I don't recall having ever done that. What I HAVE done is give my impression of the end product, declared my opinion of a general issue with the industry, and hypothesized as to how that might come about. In no way do I consider myself an expert on this industry and I'm not sure how I would have indicated otherwise. I will say, though, that it's not one meal...it's a consist product delivered and tested over many years. Whatever is going on in the kitchen is producing a bad product.
You claim to know more about how this industry works than I do, and have been dismissive of my knowledge in it. And maybe that's my fault for not really going into full depth on that topic, which I'm not going to do here. I don't care to air too much about my background in front of the nutjobs (you are NOT one of those nutjobs... I think you get the idea).
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Legend [15749]
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Re: Who is not hearing who?
Mar 23, 2021, 11:35 AM
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This is getting a bit nutty.
I clearly quoted "But, if you want to show me up here," and then responded "I have absolutely no interest in this." I have no interest in "showing you up." But I know this is important to you, so again I concede - as I have said on this thread, I have no idea what the inner workings are of the...journalism...media...news...whatever you would like to call this "industry." I don't believe anywhere I have presumed to say I do know. The difference is that you are dismissing my opinion because I don't know (nor claim to know) such inner workings and I argue that I need not know the inner workings to have formed my opinion. The inner workings are not relevant to what I am saying. You'll try to explain how the inner workings result in an unbiased product, and I see the product.
Funny story. Year ago I redid my bathroom and would come home every day to check on the progress made. The shower was done so I turned it on. The "hot" side was cold and the "cold" side was hot. I called the contractor and raised the alarm that something was wrong. He said no, that's not possible. I said I just turned it on and felt the water. He said no, it can't happen because of the way the valves are designed...they can only go in one way. I said that, although I know nothing about plumbing, the only thing that I would say is impossible is that somehow my body reverses the sensation of hot and cold ONLY when it feels the water coming out of this faucet. Of course I was right. I have no idea why the water flows were reversed or how he fixed it, but I'm not letting the fact that he's the expert stop me from pointing out something I can see with my own eyes (or feel with my own hands).
"You claim to know more about how this industry works than I do, and have been dismissive of my knowledge in it."
I do not claim to know more about how this industry works than you do. I claim that your conclusion is wrong. And I certainly hear you on not airing more background here...I wouldn't advise it either, and it won't matter. I should amend my earlier comment - it's not that I don't consider you an expert on this industry so much as I believe my conclusion doesn't require expertise in the industry. Any more than I need to be a doctor to assess that my stomach hurts.
Holy smokes, have we ever had a discussion with more analogies?
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All-In [42169]
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Re: Who is not hearing who?
Mar 23, 2021, 11:37 AM
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Definitely could be an analogy record. Sorry if I misinterpreted what you were trying to say earlier, and just ignore any responses I made that did that. I think I see where wires were crossed on my end.
Anyway, cheers.
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Legend [15749]
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Oh, this one's key as well...
Mar 23, 2021, 9:53 AM
[ in reply to Re: Who is not hearing who? ] |
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Even as Spoon points out here, there's been many a "they aren't covering it!" sentiment from you which then morphs into "but they aren't covering it how I want them to" once proven that they are.
That's fine. As I said to spoon, it's all the same. They aren't covering it at all, or they're covering it at a fraction of how they would generally cover it for a different administration. If I shorthanded it into "They aren't covering it!" and you feel the need to point out that sloppiness as a win, I'll concede. Like when two black teenagers burn a white man alive...hey...some CNN affiliate in New York wrote an article about it...what the heck did I want?
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All-In [42169]
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Well, what did you want?***
Mar 23, 2021, 10:00 AM
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Legend [15749]
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They are one and the same point. I think this particular
Mar 22, 2021, 4:01 PM
[ in reply to I assume you're already checking into this? ] |
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counterargument was discussed well in this thread:
https://www.tigernet.com/forum/message/I-think-the-media-ignores-it-alludes-to-the-fact-that-ok-28743545#28743545
My thoughts on the topic are summed up by most posts "I think 'the media ignores it' alludes to the fact that, ok," and "To further the point, I looked at CNN.com. It's not on the". Clemson Mountaineers had a good example at the end of the thread, when we compare the coverage of the subject story with that of the woman who claimed to be set on fire in Madison by four white guys (although coverage wasn't quite as robust about law enforcement finding no evidence of said crime).
In summary, claiming they "covered it" by showing a link to a story is weak sauce. Adding a story on a digital platform is cheap and easy. Like when Fox News has the true story seven paragraphs down in a story with an inflammatory headline. When one story "is covered" with such a report while another story has article after article after article prominently displayed, opinion pieces published and story and analysis on their TV network, it is worth noting the disparity.
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110%er [5677]
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Re: Ruhroh. Kids in cages leaked photos
Mar 22, 2021, 2:38 PM
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Lib response: must be a) old Trump photo, b) photoshopped, c) not in the USA.
But, yes, doesn't matter because MSM won't show it.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Ruhroh. Kids in cages leaked photos
Mar 22, 2021, 2:40 PM
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I remember when AOC lied and said kids were drinking out of toilets to cause an outrage. A lot of the photos people shred were from another country or during Obama’s term. They had to manufacture pictures to cause outrage. Ow the same ones that were doing that are helping cover for Sleepy.
Sad!
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Re: Ruhroh. Kids in cages leaked photos
Mar 22, 2021, 2:44 PM
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110%er [9664]
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CNN has similar photos on their front page right now. The
Mar 22, 2021, 2:45 PM
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article states that the Donna, TX facility is one of the better ones. Makes one a little curious what the bad ones look like...
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All-In [42169]
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Agreed.
Mar 22, 2021, 2:53 PM
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The media are showing this, and it's still as troublesome as it was before.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Agreed.
Mar 22, 2021, 4:05 PM
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The media are showing this, and it's still as troublesome as it was before.
You’re dumber than a box of rocks if you believe the media is covering this the same way
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All-In [34108]
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All-In [42169]
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Re: Links to MSM articles for the lazy
Mar 22, 2021, 3:08 PM
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"I don't trust the MSM, so I won't actually read/watch them, and instead I'm just gonna trust this fringe website when it tells me the MSM isn't covering something!"
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All-In [34108]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33612
Joined: 9/13/99
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Re: Links to MSM articles for the lazy
Mar 22, 2021, 3:44 PM
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Best part: the fringe website linked to at least one of those articles
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CU Medallion [73569]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 78044
Joined: 11/30/98
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once again. just lol
Mar 22, 2021, 3:47 PM
[ in reply to Links to MSM articles for the lazy ] |
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this was 24/7 Trump bash fest on tv for weeks. Twitter calling for Trump to be murdered.
Call me back when it gets to that level. The media was foaming at the mouth.
Your links are nothing what I was talking about and you know it.
If I see the Trump level of lunacy by the media, I'll take it back gladly
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All-In [42169]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38251
Joined: 11/30/98
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Hold up.
Mar 22, 2021, 3:50 PM
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The people who run Twitter called for Trump "to be murdered"?
And they're part of the media?
Please provide a link.
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CU Medallion [73569]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 78044
Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: Hold up.
Mar 22, 2021, 3:53 PM
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Legend [15749]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17372
Joined: 2/1/99
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Oh my goodness! These links were awesome.
Mar 22, 2021, 10:14 PM
[ in reply to Links to MSM articles for the lazy ] |
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The poor Biden administration. This is tough! They are in a pickle!
My favorite was the ABC report that pointed out that at least it's not chain link, but instead plastic sheets. Chain link is so mean!
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All-In [48078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 49059
Joined: 5/16/04
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Re: Oh my goodness! These links were awesome.
Mar 23, 2021, 4:39 AM
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Exactly. I never got the problem with chain link. It's a barrier. Did it have to be wood?
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Legend [15749]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17372
Joined: 2/1/99
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Honestly if I was housed in a temp facility in Texas I
Mar 23, 2021, 9:21 AM
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absolutely want it made of chain link fencing and not sweltering in little sections divided by plastic sheets.
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