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110%er [7971]
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All-In [26968]
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Great player, best of luck to him.***
Dec 19, 2016, 9:50 AM
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All-In [40927]
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what a ########***
Dec 19, 2016, 9:51 AM
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CU Guru [1243]
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Re: what a ########***
Dec 19, 2016, 9:55 AM
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Dislike
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All-TigerNet [14233]
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Jaylon Smith effect
Dec 19, 2016, 9:53 AM
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Don't blame them.
Millions on the line vs playing in a meaningless bowl.
Guaranteed they would be playing if they were in a NY6 bowl or playoffs.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Agree 100%***
Dec 19, 2016, 9:56 AM
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Jaylon Smith effect
Dec 19, 2016, 10:02 AM
[ in reply to Jaylon Smith effect ] |
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It does mean something. It helps build momentum for next year but using that argument it is probably best for the RB who will start next year to play.
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Oculus Spirit [81890]
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110%er [7472]
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get insurance and play- every game for Stanford has been
Dec 19, 2016, 12:24 PM
[ in reply to Jaylon Smith effect ] |
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meaningless for 10 weeks if you going to look at things that way. Guys will start skipping whole seasons.
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Orange Blooded [2638]
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You mean like Clowney did his sr year, I suppose.
Dec 19, 2016, 5:05 PM
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He mailed it in from game 1.
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110%er [5513]
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So much for no "I" in team
Dec 19, 2016, 9:53 AM
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110%er [6320]
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I do not agree with this at all
Dec 19, 2016, 9:54 AM
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He made a commitment to Stanford to play football. He was given free tuition, housing, food, training, coaching, etc to play for them and he ditches them for the last game.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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I think this is only going to become more commonplace.
Jun 18, 2018, 2:58 PM
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It really doesn't make sense for 1st round prospects to go out there and risk injury in a meaningless bowl game. If it were a NY6 game with some prestige then maybe...
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All-In [26968]
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Especially for a running back, more than anyone else.
Dec 19, 2016, 9:57 AM
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Where the chance of a severe injury is higher than for any other position.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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For sure***
Dec 19, 2016, 10:06 AM
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Orange Blooded [2679]
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Insurance Policies will Eventually Be Created
Dec 19, 2016, 9:58 AM
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Just to prevent this
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CU Guru [1806]
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Deshaun ought to take a page out of their books...
Dec 19, 2016, 9:58 AM
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NOT!!!!
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Legend [15748]
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I hate this trend, but I do understand it.***
Dec 19, 2016, 10:02 AM
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Orange Blooded [4048]
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Re: I hate this trend, but I do understand it.***
Dec 19, 2016, 5:24 PM
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Yep
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Orange Blooded [2550]
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Re: First Fournette, now McCaffrey
Dec 19, 2016, 10:02 AM
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Here's my problem with players doing this in "meaningless" bowl games: At what point do you determine that games are meaningless. An argument could be made that any game played after a school is mathematically eliminated from their conference race is meaningless. Would it then be okay for players to quit at that point during the regular season?
IMHO, this is a bad trend that we will only see more of.
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All-In [26968]
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It's a player's individual choice.
Dec 19, 2016, 10:04 AM
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Certainly you can see that a regular season game for Stanford could be meaningful even if they are eliminated. What if the team they are playing is not yet eliminated?
The bowls, except the playoff ones, are just played for fun, and to make gobs of money for everyone. (Except the players)
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Orange Blooded [3362]
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Re: First Fournette, now McCaffrey
Dec 19, 2016, 10:22 AM
[ in reply to Re: First Fournette, now McCaffrey ] |
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Exactly. And you can bet some of them make that decision even when they're still playing, thus a lack of production. Clowney was a prime example. I have never been in a position where millions may be waiting on me down the road and we can't downplay that as an insignificant motivating factor. But not finishing what you committed to is definitely an entitled, generational attitude, and I personally believe it's a dangerous attitude to endorse, not just in football but in life. If I'm an NFL exec, this speaks volumes to me about a persons character and his future commitment to my team.
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All-TigerNet [10632]
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You hit the nail on the head....it is a character issue...it
Dec 19, 2016, 10:35 AM
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is about an institution giving you a 250k education and you turning your back on them when more money is on the line. He will make more money as a Stanford graduate than his four years in the NFL, if he lasts the average years of an NFL running back. I have lost any respect for him that I might have had.....and yeah I really bet all of his teammates are behing him.
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All-In [26968]
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Poor, poor Stanford...how will they recover from
Dec 19, 2016, 10:42 AM
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this betrayal.
Wonder how many #5 jerseys they've sold lately...
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Orange Blooded [3362]
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Re: Poor, poor Stanford...how will they recover from
Dec 19, 2016, 10:54 AM
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I'm willing to listen but so far none of your arguments are convincing and miss the heart of the issue. If a better future (i.e. Payday) is reason to not finish what you committed to then what would you say to your wife who comes to you tonight and says, "I'm sorry, Prodigal, but I found a better looking man with a better bank account and I'm leaving you for him"? Again, I'm willing to listen and be convinced.
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All-In [26968]
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Can you point me to a document that McCaffrey
Dec 19, 2016, 10:57 AM
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signed that committed him to playing in the Sun Bowl? What is this "commitment" you are referring to?
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Orange Blooded [3362]
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Re: Can you point me to a document that McCaffrey
Dec 19, 2016, 11:29 AM
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Yes but I'm sure that wouldn't be convincing because it's a private and personal matter in your opinion. Take a mortgage out with your local bank and then go to them in 3 years and tell them it's not in your best interest to keep your commitment. Sure, you can do that but not without consequences, namely foreclosure and the inability to buy a home in the next 7years. A system of binding commitments only works when people keep their word.
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All-In [26968]
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I'm saying...you're saying he has a commitment...
Dec 19, 2016, 11:32 AM
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I'm saying he owes Stanford nothing. He has contributed more to Stanford than any other individual football player during his time there.
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Orange Blooded [3362]
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Re: I'm saying...you're saying he has a commitment...
Dec 19, 2016, 11:44 AM
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His contribution is not relevant to the discussion though more visible. Commitment applies to the scout team too. But believing he owes Stanford nothing is completely inaccurate. He absolutely owes Stanford something according to the NLI that bound Stanford to a four year financial commitment to him as a student athlete. Another illustration: commit to the military and walk away. Result? Deserter who is dishonorably discharged. This idea that anyone can do anything that is personally beneficial is ludicrous and undermines not only personal integrity but undermines any idea of making and keeping promises. May seem innocent in the arena of football and/or entertainment but let it be done to you and you certainly appreciate it
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All-In [26968]
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So, you believe all players should play all four years
Dec 19, 2016, 11:47 AM
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every game, or they are quitters?
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Orange Blooded [3362]
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Re: So, you believe all players should play all four years
Dec 19, 2016, 11:56 AM
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No. I believe they should fulfill their commitments or experience the consequence of not doing so. In this case, Mccaffery does as he pleases without consequence, which creates the tension we have. We've normalized this process with coaches, thus buyout clauses. However, there is no recourse for a school that loses a player who decides to not play in a bowl game because of his future.
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All-TigerNet [10632]
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SE Tiger, you are correct on every count...if character
Dec 19, 2016, 4:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: First Fournette, now McCaffrey ] |
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doesn't count with our young men and women then we are in trouble as a nation. I don't want to make a mountain out of a mole hill, but the things we do reveal who we are. I probably would have preferred to stay home from the last war I participated in!
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All-In [26968]
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The fact that fans get bent out of shape on this stuff
Dec 19, 2016, 10:02 AM
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is laughable, as if these players owe something to us.
How many of us, if offered a check for $5 million, or an opportunity to play in a football game and maybe not get any money, would turn down the check? Give me a break.
The only people who have a right to complain about a "lack of commitment to his team," is the team. And I suspect the team would actually be one of his biggest supporters in this decision.
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CU Guru [1088]
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Re: First Fournette, now McCaffrey
Dec 19, 2016, 10:10 AM
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What a POS. Basically says he's "out" to watch his own hide, then at the end of his post, cheers on the team that will be taking the field without him (at his own choosing).
What a loser! If any of our players ever did this it would so classless and a finger in the face of all fans and supporters of the team.
Wow.
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All-In [26968]
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Clemson has so many great players...
Dec 19, 2016, 10:13 AM
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This will probably happen, as soon as next year. When it does, remember what you said about 'em...
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CU Guru [1088]
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Re: Clemson has so many great players...
Dec 19, 2016, 10:15 AM
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Doubt it, we'll always play in a meaningful game, right?
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All-TigerNet [14233]
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What about coaches that leave before bowl games?
Dec 19, 2016, 10:18 AM
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Are they idiots?
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CU Guru [1088]
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Re: What about coaches that leave before bowl games?
Dec 19, 2016, 10:23 AM
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I think a coach has a certain obligation (and i would hope a desire) to coach his kids for one last go in a post-season game.
That is, unless the hiring school clearly stipulates in its contract the start date prior - but left at the coaches discretion i would hope he'd want to stick around -
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All-In [26968]
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Only 4 teams make it....hard to do every year.
Dec 19, 2016, 10:18 AM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson has so many great players... ] |
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It wasn't that long ago that people would have been saying the same things, about players who chose not to stay all four years. Now that is totally accepted and expected. Times are 'a changin'.
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CU Medallion [64574]
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They're in some fairly meaningless bowl games....
Dec 19, 2016, 10:11 AM
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While I don't agree with the decision, I certainly understand it.
If they were playing for one of the four teams in the playoffs, I suspect they'd view things a little differently.
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Orange Blooded [4194]
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Re: They're in some fairly meaningless bowl games....
Dec 19, 2016, 5:22 PM
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The only difference between the meaningless bowls and the CFP are the "trinkets." The day is coming when they will sit out any bowl. #### Hershel Walker for winning that lawsuit.
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All-In [27366]
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What do you expect from the "Selfie" generation?
Dec 19, 2016, 10:17 AM
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I don't know what is sadder: these kind of decisions, or the people supporting making them.
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All-TigerNet [14233]
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Spare us
Dec 19, 2016, 10:18 AM
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Coaches have been leaving before bowl games all the time.
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All-In [26968]
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If you were offered a 100% raise to do the same job
Dec 19, 2016, 10:19 AM
[ in reply to What do you expect from the "Selfie" generation? ] |
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you are doing now, would it be selfish of you to take it? What about your commitment to the people you currently work with.
Athletes are the only people we hold to this ridiculous standard of "commitment". Any other line of work in the world, it's smart to take advantage of opportunities. But if an athlete wants to, they're QUITTING ON THEIR TEAM!!!!
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110%er [7971]
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The bad thing is, I picked them to beat the holes in my bowl
Dec 19, 2016, 10:26 AM
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pick ems. I need a mulligan.
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CU Medallion [64574]
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Well...the Holes still have Fedora...
Dec 19, 2016, 10:33 AM
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and he'll likely make some really boneheaded coaching decision to ###### defeat from the jaws of victory.
I think you're still good.
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110%er [6153]
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Just another good reason for me to dislike pro sports ...***
Dec 19, 2016, 10:34 AM
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Orange Blooded [2986]
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I'm not a huge fan of pro sports either
Dec 19, 2016, 10:44 AM
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but without the money being generated by the pros, the overall college game would clearly be less athletic/dynamic.
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All-TigerNet [11188]
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Thank you CJ. They asked him about why he playing
Dec 19, 2016, 10:37 AM
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In the bowl game, and he said he did it for Clemson. Love that guy
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All-TigerNet [10632]
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Character & commitment .....nuff said!********
Dec 19, 2016, 4:14 PM
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All-In [29036]
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My take
Dec 19, 2016, 11:20 AM
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1) In my estimation the only people with room to complain about his decision are his teammates (and to a lesser extent his coaches). And that reaction/discussion is between him and them. Not Stanford fans, and certainly not college football fans in general.
2) I don't see a huge difference between this decision and the decision to leave school with eligibility remaining. Couldn't the same argument about "quitting" on his team, be applied to Watson choosing not to return to play football at Clemson next year? In fact, I'd argue the weight of what is being lost is much greater in that all of next year is meaningful at this point, and Stanford's bowl game carries no real significance. It wasn't long ago that folks would complain about players going pro early. But, in my estimation, that was about our greed as fans and not about us caring about people "living up to their commitments".
3) I feel about this issue much the same way I feel about the NCAA video game, and jersey sales, and issues of that sort. I wish we could return to the era where those things weren't issues and we could blindly just have fun, but at some point the arguments that were being made began to make too much dang sense to me. I don't like it, but there is a very real argument about individuals being able to monetize their skills and likenesses. I don't much like the directions that appears to be leading NCAA football, but I can't help but see it as the fair and right thing for the individuals.
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110%er [6153]
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I don't understand the "greed as fans" perspective ... how
Dec 19, 2016, 11:29 AM
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The "fans" are the one crucial component of all sports. They're the reason the games are played in the first place and certainly the reason they're televised and offer multi-million dollar contract to those players who have the talent.
How do any of these guys ever have the opportunity to play in college and then get benefit from that big pro contract if not for the fans who follow the teams they play for from high school onward?
If nobody is in the stands, or watching on TV, what future does a Leonard Fournette or a Christian McCaffery have for a free college education and a huge payday as a pro?
Fournette and McCaffery owe absolutely everything they have and will have in their sports career to the "fans" who follow them and support them.
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Orange Blooded [3981]
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Re: First Fournette, now McCaffrey
Dec 19, 2016, 11:49 AM
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Good. There needs to be less bowls. Make 10-12 bowls. Will be more important. Everyone will play
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All-In [48078]
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Considering the scrub bowls they are in, ...
Dec 19, 2016, 11:49 AM
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and with the current playoff system, they are making great calls. I fully support them and it makes complete sense. They are smart.
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CU Guru [1476]
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Clowney is rubbing off on people.***
Dec 19, 2016, 11:58 AM
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Associate AD [819]
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With any luck, this starts a trend where stars pick and
Dec 19, 2016, 6:29 PM
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choose all the games they will play in during the year and give the coach a list before the start of each season so the staff will know how to prepare accordingly. That seems like a fair deal.
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Asst Coach [708]
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Re: With any luck, this starts a trend where stars pick and
Dec 19, 2016, 6:41 PM
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Isn't getting a free education considered "pay"? What's tuition at Stanford? LSU? Etc... Personally I think the player is indebted to play for his "employer" who payed him $30,000 per year for his education. What do I know?
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Associate AD [819]
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I agree with you.
Dec 19, 2016, 7:01 PM
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I was being sarcastic. I wish McCaffrey would play and should play because it will be his last chance to be the top dog. That fella isn't doing jackcrap in the pros. Then again, I'm not a pro scout. I just don't see it, though. He is just projected to be a late first rounder. Nuts.
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Asst Coach [708]
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Re: I agree with you.
Dec 19, 2016, 7:05 PM
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Sorry I wasn't just replying to your comment. I just voiced my opinion after reading everyone's responses and yours happened to be the last one I read and I just hit the reply button! Lol
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