Replies: 35
| visibility 1
|
Oculus Spirit [90202]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 45299
Joined: 10/18/09
|
Would you say that 25% of Heisman Winners weren't best choice
May 26, 2022, 9:38 AM
|
|
the year chosen.
I could think of at least 2-3 Clemson players more worthy..Spiller, Watson & Lawrence.
What say you?
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3615]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 8864
Joined: 5/16/22
|
Re: Would you say that 50% of Heisman Winners weren't best choice
May 26, 2022, 9:39 AM
|
|
I think Trevor was beat out by Burrow and who else?
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [82752]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80022
Joined: 11/29/99
|
Devonta Smith in 2020.***
May 26, 2022, 10:15 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3615]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 8864
Joined: 5/16/22
|
Re: Devonta Smith in 2020.***
May 27, 2022, 1:01 AM
|
|
So he was never ripped off. I think Deshaun deserved it though.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44188]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4274
Joined: 9/24/06
|
Re: Would you say that 25% of Heisman Winners weren't best choice
May 26, 2022, 10:13 AM
|
|
Spiller was great in 2009, but by that point I saw that it was consistently the most popular player on the best team in the country...
Watson was definitely robbed in 2016 because Lamar jumped over someone...
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3273]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6499
Joined: 1/13/04
|
Re: Would you say that 25% of Heisman Winners weren't best choice
May 26, 2022, 10:16 AM
|
|
Lamar jumped over someone who played for Charlotte or Western Carolina or something right? In the 4th quarter where they were already up 6-7 TDs. ESPN fell in love and that was the end of it. Derrick Henry beat out Deshaun the previous year, but anyone with half a brain saw who the best player on the field was in the National Title game despite the loss by our Tigers.
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [82752]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80022
Joined: 11/29/99
|
Think it was Syracuse. Could be wrong. He became the front
May 26, 2022, 10:42 AM
|
|
runner with their 63-20 win over FSU. FSU was still very good then.
He had great numbers against us that year. I had no problem with him winning it.
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [17661]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16579
Joined: 9/1/12
|
Re: Think it was Syracuse. Could be wrong. He became the front
May 26, 2022, 4:00 PM
|
|
I am with you. Heisman is a regular season award. As such no issue with Jackson taking the trophy.
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [82752]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80022
Joined: 11/29/99
|
Maybe, but Mark Ingram, Derrick Henry/Lamar Jackson,
May 26, 2022, 10:15 AM
|
|
Joe Burrow/Devonta Smith, the ones who beat out Spiller, Watson, and Lawrence, were all well-deserving and ARGUABLY the best those years.
|
|
|
|
|
1st Rounder [618]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 6166
Joined: 8/30/14
|
Burrow & Jackson's #s were otherworldly-easy choices for their Heisman wins
May 26, 2022, 6:03 PM
|
|
Easy
|
|
|
|
|
All-Pro [653]
TigerPulse: 71%
Posts: 1259
Joined: 7/21/20
|
Every one and no one
May 26, 2022, 10:24 AM
|
|
There is no way to get the Heisman right essentially ever (or any award for that matter).
What's frustrating is how polarizing the Heisman alone seems to be, especially here at Clemson.
Alabama, with all their accolades, hadn't won a Heisman before going wildcat with Mark Ingram & winning their first title since Dabo Swinney played there.
The tricky part is every year every nominated player is worthy of being celebrated for their nomination & would be a worthwhile choice for the Heisman.
If, say, Trevor won in 2020, would there not be an argument today about how Burrow deserved it instead?
I think once we win one it will clear up some of the fog (and we WILL win a Heisman, & I'm ready to celebrate it). Still, never take the honor of our guys being good enough to compete for this one award for granted; we are living in a golden age of the sport & Clemson is one of the few teams defining its competitive ceiling. IMO, the ACC being less competitive is arguably the biggest outlier for many of the votes, and if the ACC becomes more competitive (plus playing Notre Dame absolutely doesn't hurt) we'll have more opportunities for Heisman-defining moments.
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [82752]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80022
Joined: 11/29/99
|
I think people just need to realize, it's for the best Sep/
May 26, 2022, 10:36 AM
|
|
Oct/Nov player for the most part, and not for the whole season.
|
|
|
|
|
1st Rounder [618]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 6166
Joined: 8/30/14
|
Re: Every one and no one
May 26, 2022, 6:11 PM
[ in reply to Every one and no one ] |
|
Burrow's team won the NC and his numbers dwarfed Trevor's and nearly every other QB in the history of college football, not even close. No debate for the literate and sane.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [30340]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 47391
Joined: 12/20/99
|
As long as the award continues to be given out BEFORE the
May 26, 2022, 10:45 AM
|
|
season ends... it will NEVER be valid
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4056]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2448
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Would you say that 25% of Heisman Winners weren't best choice
May 26, 2022, 11:09 AM
|
|
Watson should have won it.
He would have won it if the vote had been after the playoffs.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3273]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6499
Joined: 1/13/04
|
Re: Would you say that 25% of Heisman Winners weren't best choice
May 26, 2022, 11:24 AM
|
|
Both years.
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [75788]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28258
Joined: 12/1/18
|
More.
May 26, 2022, 11:23 AM
|
|
Baker Maysfield? Johnny Menzel? Lamar Jackson? Crab Legs???????
The only one in recent history I think they got right was Murray. Henry, didn’t even deserve it!
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3273]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6499
Joined: 1/13/04
|
Re: More.
May 26, 2022, 11:25 AM
|
|
Famous Anus was the best player on a FSU team that won the National Title wasn't he? I'm not sure I could argue with his winning the trophy. In fact, he might be the last one that deserved to win it (until Joe Burrow did).
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [75788]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28258
Joined: 12/1/18
|
The award embodies leadership and character, no?
May 26, 2022, 11:37 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [82752]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80022
Joined: 11/29/99
|
All that you named were ARGUABLY the best. You could say
May 26, 2022, 1:08 PM
[ in reply to More. ] |
|
the same about a few others who didn't win.
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [75788]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28258
Joined: 12/1/18
|
Ironically, they are all, arguably,
May 26, 2022, 3:46 PM
|
|
scumbags. Maybe not Lavar. Don’t really know much about him.
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [17661]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16579
Joined: 9/1/12
|
Re: More.
May 26, 2022, 4:04 PM
[ in reply to More. ] |
|
Baker is the only one I might have an issue with on that list.
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [75788]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28258
Joined: 12/1/18
|
Because they’re all high character guys, right?***
May 26, 2022, 5:45 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Walk-On [120]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 71
Joined: 1/17/13
|
Re: Would you say that 25% of Heisman Winners weren't best choice
May 26, 2022, 11:33 AM
|
|
It’s highly subjective and outcome is influenced by the media for sure. There have been some questionable winners like Manziel and Winston, whose questionable character should have eliminated them in my opinion. But I don’t think it’s that high of a percentage. Many great players have not won the Heisman. Take Joe Namath and Joe Montana for instance. Both won Natties and subsequently Super Bowls but no Heisman.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5344]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4889
Joined: 10/21/15
|
Re: Would you say that 25% of Heisman Winners weren't best choice
May 26, 2022, 11:41 AM
|
|
Validity of the award ended when Peyton Manning didn't win.
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1868]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 963
Joined: 9/9/18
|
Re: Would you say that 25% of Heisman Winners weren't best choice
May 26, 2022, 8:22 PM
|
|
Yep. I’ll never forget when they announced charles woodson. He was a great player, but that was a joke
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5510]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4028
Joined: 10/3/03
|
The Heisman is a crock
May 26, 2022, 11:42 AM
|
|
...that's what I say.
I rarely remember the best college football player getting it.
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [82752]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80022
Joined: 11/29/99
|
I can't remember when one of the best didn't win. It's just
May 26, 2022, 1:11 PM
|
|
like any individual award. The MVPs in the NFL, MLB, NBA are much the same. There are several players each year deserving of the award.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [30949]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9048
Joined: 8/31/15
|
Re: Would you say that 25% of Heisman Winners weren't best choice
May 26, 2022, 1:31 PM
|
|
Most definitely. Could be a great player but your team has to also do very well, so it seems. Hard to believe we haven’t had anyone win it.
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [12985]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 22308
Joined: 4/24/04
|
We've never had anyone clearly robbed
May 26, 2022, 2:31 PM
|
|
I think our best case was Watson in 2015 (not 2016), but i would have given the award to McCaffrey that year over both Watson and Henry.
Lamar gets unfairly criticized here, he was incredibly good in 2016 and 2017 despite having far less talent around him than Watson had at Clemson. He had 1600 yards RUSHING both seasons (while averaging around 6.5 ypc) in addition to what he did passing. That's insane. I think you can easily make the case that he was the most dynamic athlete to play CFB in the last 20 years (since Vick).
Burrow had the best QB season in CFB history in 2019 so Trevor never really had a chance.
And in 2020 you could basically take your pick from Smith, Mac Jones, or Harris. That Bama offense was incredible and they crushed everyone that year. Trevor missing 2 games due to COVID protocol certainly didn't help his chances, but i don't think he would've won it anyway. If they were going to give the award to a QB that year it would've been difficult to make an argument for Lawrence over Mac Jones.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [30949]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9048
Joined: 8/31/15
|
Re: We've never had anyone clearly robbed
May 26, 2022, 6:24 PM
|
|
Yea LJ was a beast for a couple of years and have been really surprised his game is as good as it is in the NFL.
Some years it’s fairly obvious but again it helps if your team is in the mix and you have the media backing you.
|
|
|
|
|
1st Rounder [618]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 6166
Joined: 8/30/14
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1056]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 942
Joined: 4/23/22
|
Re: Would you say that 25% of Heisman Winners weren't best choice
May 26, 2022, 4:01 PM
|
|
The votes are counted before all of the games have been played. I have no doubt DW4 would have won had it not been for this misguided aporoach
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [306]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 212
Joined: 7/4/21
|
Re: Would you say that 25% of Heisman Winners weren't best choice
May 26, 2022, 5:07 PM
|
|
I have 2 points #1 is the Heisman doesn't carry the same weight as it did 15 or 20 years ago it doesn't. #2 As long as Dabo is the the coach we will never have a player put up the numbers that's required for a Heisman. He will pull the starters in a blowout (as he should) for the development/experience/insurance for the rest of the season. Louisville played LJ up by 40 on several teams for the entire game and they aren't the only ones. Big picture team wise it doesn't make sense. Heisman or Natty make your call.
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18527]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4980
Joined: 7/15/13
|
Re: Would you say that 25% of Heisman Winners weren't best choice
May 26, 2022, 6:29 PM
|
|
It should be an end of the season award. Deshaun would have won the year that we beat Alabama with his playoff performance. Also, they need to make standards for voters. Some of these guys have no reason to have input on the voting.
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [52]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Would you say that 25% of Heisman Winners weren't best choice
May 27, 2022, 1:46 AM
|
|
I do think a lot of Heisman winners weren't the best choice (much more than 25%), but not because of Clemson players.
In 2009, Suh was the best player in college football, and it wasn't very close. McCoy singlehandedly almost won the national championship and would have won had he not been injured in the championship. Tim Tebow was pretty phenomenal then too. CJ was great, and the most exciting player I've seen, but I don't think he deserved it more than any of them. As for running backs, Gerhart was unbelievable. 28 touchdowns from scrimmage is incredible and blows away Spiller and Ingram's numbers. Mark Ingram was better than CJ is pretty much every stat. CJ had 1,700 yards from scrimmage, 16 touchdowns, and 5.6 ypc. Ingram had 2,000 yards, 20 touchdowns, and 6.1 ypc. He played on a much better team, but also played much better competition. Were it me, I would not have given it to Ingram, but CJ didn't earn it either.
2016, I do think Deshaun deserved the Heisman. It's hard. Lamar is the better QB. But that season, Deshaun won it on the field, and that's the strongest argument for not awarding the Heisman before the post-season.
2019, the Heisman was Trevor's to lose, and he did it after a terrible start. But even then, are you really going to argue he deserved it over Burrow, who played the best season for a QB in history? Burrow threw 2,000 more yards, 24 more touchdowns, and threw 2 less interceptions. We would have killed last year for DJ to have that season, and that's what he had ON TOP OF Trevor's season. He also humiliated teams when it mattered most, including us. There's 0 argument for anyone over Trevor. Trevor wasn't even top 5 in 2019.
2020 was a weird year all around. But there's 0 doubt Smith was the best player in college football.
|
|
|
|
Replies: 35
| visibility 1
|
|
|