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WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?
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Replies: 34  

WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?

[1]
May 27, 2022, 1:13 PM
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I cannot believe all those police standing there for all that time could not have had that thought.

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Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?

[1]
May 27, 2022, 1:20 PM
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Students will have to breath that also.

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Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?

[1]
May 27, 2022, 1:28 PM
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After 100+ rounds had already been fired in that classroom the benefit would outweigh the hazard if it helped them stop the shooter and rescue injured children.

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Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?


May 27, 2022, 3:27 PM
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2000® said:

Students will have to breath that also.




At least they'd be breathing...

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Have there been any reasons given for the police

[1]
May 27, 2022, 1:30 PM
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not doing anything for the first 45 minutes to an hour while all of this was going on?

Their behavior seems inexcusable. I'm so angry that it wasn't handled better.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


per the press conference that was just held......


May 27, 2022, 1:41 PM
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reasons were given. Some of the reasons were questionable at the time and most all of them were questionable in hindsight.

the three biggest critical facts that require more information/explanation:
-why wasn't there an armed guard at the school (as originally reported there was)
-propping open the door by a teacher
-Police in the halls ("waiting for backup") for so 45+ minutes w/o entering where the shooter was.

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Re: Have there been any reasons given for the police

[1]
May 27, 2022, 3:44 PM
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They were scared of getting shot, and then no one would be able to stop the guy from shooting people.

“They do not know where the gunman is. They are hearing gunshots,” he continued, doing his best to convey the environment with which police officers were confronted.

“They are receiving gunshots,” he continued.

“At that point, if they proceeded any further not knowing where the suspect was at, they could’ve been shot, they could’ve been killed, and that gunman would have had an opportunity to kill other people inside that school.”

The 911 call was placed at 11:30 a.m., reporting there was a crash and a man with a gun.

One minute later, Ramos arrived outside the school and began shooting toward classrooms, firing up to 100 rounds.

As he shot at the school, responding officers went to the nearby funeral home, near where Ramos crashed and shot at the two men.

One of the responding officers from the school district drove past Ramos, who was hunkered down behind a vehicle, McCraw said.

At 11:33 a.m., Ramos entered the school through the door that was propped open. He began shooting into a classroom, firing more than 100 rounds, according to audio evidence, McCraw said.

At 11:35 a.m., three Uvalde police officers entered the building, McCraw said. They were joined by four other officers.

The three initial officers who arrived went to the closed classroom door and were grazed by gunfire.

More gunfire was heard from inside the classroom at 11:37 a.m., 11:38 a.m., 11:40 a.m. and 11:44 a.m., McCraw said.

At 11:51 a.m., more police and federal agent started to arrive. Shortly after noon, there were at least 19 officers inside the hallway outside of the classroom, McCraw said.

At 12:15 p.m., tactical officers arrived, and the suspect fired again. About six minutes later, officers began moving down the hallway toward the classroom.

At 12:50 p.m., officers entered the classroom through the door after using keys they got from the janitor, and they shot and killed Ramos, McCraw said.

Ramos had 58 magazines with him, though not all were found on his person when he was finally neutralized by police. As for police not being inside the building, there were—19 of them. Several officers were on the scene immediately. Why didn’t officers breach the classroom door where Ramos was holed up? The incident commander on scene felt that it was no longer an active shooter situation. They felt that no kids were inside the classroom and that there was time to obtain keys from a custodian to unlock the door and breach the room with a tactical team. The school doors lock from the inside. How many kids died in that 48-minute window between locating Ramos’ location and breaching the door is not known. Col. McCraw couldn’t give an answer. Yet, there was a flurry of 911 calls coming from the school and its students, so I’m sure we’ll learn more about that miscommunication. McCraw admitted this was a grave error. With the benefit of hindsight, this was the wrong decision.

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48 minutes? It’s a miracle more lives were not lost.***


May 27, 2022, 4:51 PM
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Re: Have there been any reasons given for the police


May 27, 2022, 11:13 PM
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What the heII are they paid for? After the same mistake was made at Columbine, the protocol was changed to take out the shooter ASAP.

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Re: Have there been any reasons given for the police


May 27, 2022, 5:44 PM
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Sissy's, they should have attacked and saved 5-10 kids! But all the good cops were fired or retired after Defund the Police! Now we have rookies that make no money and don't know how to be aggressive!

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So we shouldn’t defund the police?


May 27, 2022, 1:54 PM
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Am I doing it right?

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Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?


May 27, 2022, 1:56 PM
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They just had a news conference and basically admitted it was a mistake not going in somehow. Apparently, the local police commander made the decision to hold in position for more the Tac team to arrive.

Also, said a teacher left the door cracked open when they went outside. That's going to be a hard one to live with for them.

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Yeah cause that probably doesn't happen

[1]
May 27, 2022, 1:59 PM
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Thousands of times a day during school.

A BS reason to try and draw attention from actual causes and what appears to be police cowardice and failure

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Re: Yeah cause that probably doesn't happen

emoji_events [5]
May 27, 2022, 3:58 PM
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I am a retired teacher. I always told my students that we needed to survive for five minutes until the Sheriff’s department had officers in the building. I cannot believe that the officers waited and did not go in.

All of this tragedy would have been avoided if the back door to the school had been locked. I have personally emailed my district superintendent about school employees leaving doors propped open. I did this after my principal did nothing with my complaints. My room was the second on the left right inside the back door. Look at the map of the school from Texas . All fatalities were in two classrooms right by the door that the shooter entered. So my question is, how many people have to die for school buildings and classroom doors to be locked.

I went back to my old school to substitute last week. The SPED teacher left the classroom for a few minutes and left the classroom door open. Those doors are to be locked at all times during school. I walked over, shut the door and kept teaching. The SPED teacher seemed surprised when she returned and I had her locked out.

School employees have got to be held accountable for being lazy. I have friends that hand their school keys to students to go open a classroom or take the trash outside. Students are able to open classrooms doors during class when the teacher is supposed to do it. Remember the locked classroom door is the only security that kids have while in class. Outside doors are propped open because it is inconvenient to have to unlock it. Heads need to start rolling. I no longer feel safe in a school building and will not substitute anymore.

Don’t get me going on the lack of metal detectors…

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Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?

emoji_events [10]
May 27, 2022, 1:57 PM
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The reason they didn't do anything is the same reason no one whose job it is to protect us ever does anything. They have been put in a position where making decisions is frowned upon. If someone throws tear gas and it negatively impacts one child he is marked for the rest of his life regardless of his noble intentions. Society no longer values making decisions regardless of outcome. Just ask someone at work to order lunch. See how many times they defer to you to make the decision for them. If you make a decision you are accountable to that decision, and the cold reality is that most people are more than happy to struggle in the security of deferring any and all decisions. Everyone wants to manage/lead but few want the responsibility. Rugged individualism has been replaced with groupthink/ communal decision making, which is why the phrase "It takes a village" has been popularized among young adults of child bearing age. Because even if their decisions on raising children are wrong they can blame "the village" and not shoulder personal responsibility. As an ex Army officer I can tell you from experience people are more than willing to delegate decision making even at the cost of their own life. Sad but true.

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Very well said.***


May 27, 2022, 2:05 PM
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Re: Very well said.***


May 27, 2022, 3:06 PM
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Yep, a lot of followers but very few leaders.

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Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?


May 27, 2022, 3:19 PM
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Nobody would have frowned upon some hero or heroes going in.

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Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?

[2]
May 27, 2022, 3:28 PM
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99.9% of our population is not in law enforcement, would never be in one, nor has the guts to do it. Yet, that same 99% sure knows how to criticize and tell them how to do their job.
Solution. You want it to be better- join the forces.

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Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?

[2]
May 27, 2022, 3:39 PM
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Well, the .1% that do do it should have the guts to do it, and should do it better than they did in this instance. It's not logical to say "then do it yourself".

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Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?


May 27, 2022, 3:42 PM
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I was saying nobody would have been punished for acting as a hero. The rest of your post must be directed to another poster.

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In This Case I Believe They Failed Miserably


May 27, 2022, 5:48 PM
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and I believe just about anyone could have had a better outcome than what transpired here. I don't subscribe blindly to trust the experts.

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Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?


May 28, 2022, 8:15 AM
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and apparently 100% of those who go into it lack the guts to do it, because they all stood out in a hallway for an hour waiting for the janitor to show up with a key. I guarantee you if they'd been breaking into the wrong house on a no-knock warrant, they would have gotten the ###### door down.

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Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?

[1]
May 27, 2022, 4:11 PM
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If one kid was killed because of someone going in.. the parents of that child would not have blamed the situation.. they would have pointed the finger at the officer and his career would forever be viewed in a negative light. There in lies the dilemma. Ethical decision making many times involves a no win situation. As an Army Officer we were trained in diverse scenarios that put us in no win situations and we were forced to reconcile in our own minds our reasoning independent of outside influence. The purpose of the exercise was to get you accustomed to shouldering the responsibility of action. I am in agreement that action should have been taken, but the people involved were clearly not prepared mentally to deal with action accountability and in the moment of decision froze up.

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Thanks for your service and your wisdom on this point.


May 27, 2022, 9:03 PM
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Would love to hear you develop more thoroughly this concept of action accountability and the risks of leadership as viewed through your experiences in the military.

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GO TIGERS


Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?


May 27, 2022, 3:24 PM
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This is interesting.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/border-patrol-tactical-team-ordered-170904118.html
https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/z7_ffiwe3rN3Nb471o.k1g--~B/aD00MTYwO3c9NjI0MDthcHBpZD15dGFjaHlvbg--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/the_new_york_times_articles_158/98ac1c89d907a11cd83d01036ae20c81">


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Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?

[1]
May 27, 2022, 5:11 PM
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They were probably not equipped with tear gas or gas masks when they went into the building. Their objective was to make sure the shooter did not fire his weapon once he was confronted. Tossing a tear gas cannister into an enclosed room, requires you having a tear gas mask if you are going to rush in while the tear gas is still active. They would have been just as incapacitated as the target. Once the door was breached, the goal was to instantly make sure the shooter could not fire his weapon again.

The police could not have handled the crisis any worse than they did. Incompetence and lack of leadership extraordinaire.

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Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?

[1]
May 27, 2022, 5:35 PM
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After running his truck into the ditch, the shooter waited outside school for app. 12 minutes, then walked through the door that was propped open. He shot through window to open the door to classroom, then told the teacher, “Good Night” and started shooting. 100 rounds. Children that were left alive were having to smear blood from their classmates on their bodies and pretend they were dead, while trying to call 911. Nine 911 calls were made from the classroom. Shots are still being fired, and there are 19 officers standing out in the hallway. Waiting on a ### janitor with a key to come open the door. The door that they claim was “barricaded” was actually never barricaded, just locked. The door is open, and the officers finally enter the classroom and shoot the SOB.
Failure at every level. Imagine being the parents of these children in that classroom and hearing this.

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Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?


May 28, 2022, 4:44 AM
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A locked door is barricaded. They had no idea what was inside that door and no good way to open it.

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Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?


May 28, 2022, 8:20 AM
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Wasn't the window broken? Isn't that how the killer got in?

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Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?


May 28, 2022, 12:47 PM
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Yet, the shooter has shot and shattered the glass window on the door and managed to get in….

Good to know the officers waited on the janitor for the keys. Wouldn’t want to damage the door any more than necessary.

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Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?


May 28, 2022, 8:20 AM
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That's awful. Yeah that was the summary on the news this morning.

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Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?


May 27, 2022, 6:44 PM
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Protect and serve is a myth. Cops are only there to investigate AFTER a crime. If they happen to be on the scene, they will fire 15 rounds to protect themselves and will scream like a girl if they get into a confrontation and the perp gets the drop ...

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Re: WHY did nobody throw a teargas cannister into the room?


May 27, 2022, 8:31 PM
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Because they're cowards. Nothing but a bunch of posers and wimps who should all be summarily fired.

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I'll take a guess. If the shooter had been just randomly


May 28, 2022, 8:36 AM
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shooting around him, a teargas cannister would have really set him off on another quick spree. He was in what soldiers call a "target rich environment", meaning, he didn't have to aim to hit somebody.

That's just my guess, but it makes sense to me.

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