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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Tough decision for Neff
Jan 19, 2022, 10:55 AM
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"Fire Brownell" is the current catchphrase on TNET.
In a few months that may shift to "Fire Monte" if we don't see some major improvements in the Clemson baseball program this season.
I think most would estimate that if Brownell isn't out of time already that he has got to be nearing the end of his rope. I would assume that it would take a pretty big turnaround to finish the season or some really good conversations (excuses) when he sits down with Neff at the end of the year to explain it all away.
The problem for Neff is that you could possibly lump Monte Lee into the exact same category as a Clemson coach who is not meeting expectations set for the program and who has had enough time to show some progress.
I can't imagine a new AD coming in and firing 2 head coaches out of the 3 or 4 most talked about sports at Clemson.
Is Neff willing to fire both guys if the seasons end up well below expectations?
Will he be willing to fire either one during his first 6 months on the job?
If he is going to pick only one to fire, do you wait until baseball season has ended to then pick the lesser of the 2 evils to keep on staff for another year?
I am glad that I am not Graham Neff at the moment, because nobody wants to have their first major action in a new job be to fire somebody.
Hopefully he will navigate these troubled waters and make the decisions that are best for Clemson athletics moving forward.
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All-In [27317]
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Re: Tough decision for Neff
Jan 19, 2022, 10:57 AM
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I’m pretty sure that catchphrase has been around for years. Also, at this point I don’t think it’ll be a tough decision.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Tough decision for Neff
Jan 19, 2022, 10:58 AM
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It has been around for years, but it does phase in and out.
It's definitely IN right now though.
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Orange Blooded [2679]
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In your discussion you could probably throw in WBKB as well
Jan 19, 2022, 11:02 AM
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This season is pretty disappointing there as well. Good recruiting on the way, but need something to show for it next year in particular. Probably won't be this year for Women's BKB, but next year might be a critical year.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: In your discussion you could probably throw in WBKB as well
Jan 19, 2022, 11:05 AM
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I would say there is almost 0 chance that Butler is let go during the '22 calendar year, unless something crazy happens that forces a firing for cause.
I think with the pressure being applied currently by basketball and what was being applied with baseball last season, Neff has his hands full with those two and isn't even entertaining any other sports at this time.
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Orange Blooded [3212]
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Re: Tough decision for Neff
Jan 19, 2022, 11:04 AM
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12 years of Brownell is more than enough time. The situation with Monte is a different issue in my opinion simply based on the way scholarships are handed out in baseball. But, he has to move the needle in the next 2 years are we look elsewhere.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Tough decision for Neff
Jan 19, 2022, 11:08 AM
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I have heard that the pressure on Monte is much greater than you estimate.
I've been told that he is in a "win now" situation at the moment.
What I don't know is what is considered winning for the baseball program at this point.
Is it getting back to a regional?
Is it super regional or bust?
I don't know that answer just yet.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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Correct - and that's a HUGE difference. We are now in the
Jan 19, 2022, 11:22 AM
[ in reply to Re: Tough decision for Neff ] |
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theatre of the absurd with Brownell, given the amount of time and chances he's been given. I agree that Monte has to show improvement as well, but has a few more years before the axe falls for him.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: Correct - and that's a HUGE difference. We are now in the
Jan 19, 2022, 11:38 AM
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Monte’s contract only goes through 2023. If he doesn’t make it out of a regional this year are we going to extend him or let him coach 2023 with no time remaining in his contract? Leggett, who had one of his best classes in years incoming and a new facility to Christen, was denied such an opportunity.
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CU Guru [1300]
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Re: Correct - and that's a HUGE difference. We are now in the
Jan 19, 2022, 12:01 PM
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Leggett also had a much easier road to success in his time.
The game has changed leaps and bounds since his time. Just look at the amount invested across the country. Leggett would have completely drowned in the next year or two had he been retained.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: Correct - and that's a HUGE difference. We are now in the
Jan 19, 2022, 12:18 PM
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None of that has anything to with whether you let a coach play out the last minute of his contract. It’s supposed to be the kiss of death for recruiting - especially when the coach has never been particularly successful.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Correct - and that's a HUGE difference. We are now in the
Jan 19, 2022, 12:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: Correct - and that's a HUGE difference. We are now in the ] |
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viztiz was not advocating for Leggett staying longer.
He is saying that Monte shouldn't be treated any different.
Either extend him or fire him, but don't let him turn into a lame duck.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Correct - and that's a HUGE difference. We are now in the
Jan 19, 2022, 12:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: Correct - and that's a HUGE difference. We are now in the ] |
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Also I think at this point people have gotten far from demanding that Monte reach the same levels of success that Clemson used to call normal.
I think at this point fans want to make sure that he is going to stop getting worse.
Last season he got worse.
If he does it again, his days may be short in Clemson.
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Orange Blooded [4453]
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Re: Tough decision for Neff
Jan 19, 2022, 12:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Tough decision for Neff ] |
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Yes Monte has not had enough time. 2 more years should show what he has got. Same for Amanda Butler. Not enough time. 2 more years should show direction of her program.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Tough decision for Neff
Jan 19, 2022, 1:06 PM
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I'm not sure women's bball and baseball can be looked at through the same lens.
Women's basketball at Clemson couldn't get worse than it was when Butler arrived. She hasn't improved as much as most hoped, but she didn't make things worse.
Monte on the other hand made improvements initially by hosting several regionals in a row which Clemson hadn't done in the handful of years prior.
Even though he wasn't winning the regionals it was a quick improvement.
The problem with Monte is that the last couple of complete seasons have shown the same results that got Leggett fired.
It it stayed the same the whole time Monte was in charge then I think more would be willing to give him a couple more years, but he has shown regression from his original improvement.
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110%er [6444]
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Re: Tough decision for Neff
Jan 19, 2022, 11:30 AM
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This is Monte’s “do or die” year. He owns this team. He’s done fairly well with recruiting. It’s up to him and his staff to develop/prepare these players and to build and foster team chemistry and mentality.
Unfortunately, fans have always more or less accepted mediocrity with basketball. If Monte continues to lose mid-week games, and they don’t make Regionals, he’ll get canned before Brownell.
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Legend [15526]
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Re: Tough decision for Neff
Jan 19, 2022, 11:33 AM
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As he (Brownell) should. He makes way too much money, and he has been provided plenty of resources not to have accomplished any more success than he has brought us.
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110%er [6444]
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Re: Tough decision for Neff
Jan 19, 2022, 11:40 AM
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I agree with you there on his salary. It’s ridiculous that he’s paid that amount for what is seen on the court. He should be in Neff’s office right now offering to take a pay cut.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Tough decision for Neff
Jan 19, 2022, 11:34 AM
[ in reply to Re: Tough decision for Neff ] |
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This is more along the lines of what I have been hearing with baseball heading into this season.
I think we will know early in the season how things will go based on the performance of the pitching staff.
The 2020 season that was lost to COVID had Monte's best pitching staff at Clemson and he fell far short of replacing what he lost.
That area needs the biggest improvement heading into this season IMO.
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110%er [6031]
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That was a good rotation that year
Jan 19, 2022, 12:54 PM
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I wish we could have seen how it would have played out. I’m sure we would have at least gotten out of the regional that year.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: That was a good rotation that year
Jan 19, 2022, 1:08 PM
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I also think the rotation's results so far in professional baseball shows how good they really were.
It wasn't some fluky hot start to the season for the pitching staff.
Those guys were true studs and were the type of guys Clemson was missing when Monte couldn't get out of regionals in his first few seasons.
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All-In [30459]
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Honestly Monte is a bigger disappointment
Jan 19, 2022, 12:45 PM
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But baseball at Clemson would be much easier for a decent coach to rebuild
So I would say replace Brownlee first
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Honestly Monte is a bigger disappointment
Jan 19, 2022, 1:11 PM
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Your statement confuses me.
Replace the head coach of the program with no upside and let a disappointing coach stay in charge of a program that could do much better?
I'm not sure that I agree that Monte is a bigger disappointment since Brownell has had 12 years to get to his current status, but I don't understand the idea of keeping the wrong coach if you think somebody else could quickly turn things around for a program.
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Orange Blooded [4035]
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Re: Tough decision for Neff
Jan 19, 2022, 1:14 PM
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I don’t see it as tough. I see it as doing their job.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Tough decision for Neff
Jan 19, 2022, 1:19 PM
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Whether or not it is part of someone's job doesn't mean it's any easy part of the job.
What a wasted comment.
I know of any quality leader that enjoys firing people even if they know it has to be done.
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