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YOUR BALANCE
Posthumous Poll:
Tiger Boards - The Amphitheatre
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Posthumous Poll:

8

Oct 1, 2024, 8:44 AM
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Charlie Hustle (A nickname which I never did like, by the way) is dead. Should he be put into the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame posthumously?


  Does Peter Edward Rose belong in the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame?    [Results]
 
No, he disqualified himself by gambling on baseball and then lying about it for years.
YES, his on-field accomplishments should override whatever happened later in his life.
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Re: Posthumous Poll:

5

Oct 1, 2024, 8:50 AM
Reply

He was my favorite player as kid. Long before his “gambling” issues. It didn’t affect Jordan. Such a double standard and BS.

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Re: Posthumous Poll:

4

Oct 1, 2024, 9:11 AM
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Wasn't Rose found to have placed bets only on his team to win games, never betting on his team to lose? If so, it seems like that's analogous to what Dabo said about buying all the stock you freakin' can.

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Re: Posthumous Poll:

1

Oct 1, 2024, 10:52 AM
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That was Pete's defense of himself. I do not know if that ever was verified, and with all of his other subterfuge, who knows. But I think he should be in the HOF

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I think they should have voted him in when he was still alive

7

Oct 1, 2024, 8:53 AM
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but I never thought that they would do it. I do think they will eventually vote him in now that he has passed.

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All I will say about that is, if HE ever gets in, Shoeless Joe Jackson should

14

Oct 1, 2024, 8:56 AM
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also be allowed to finally get in.

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Re: All I will say about that is, if HE ever gets in, Shoeless Joe Jackson should

4

Oct 1, 2024, 3:37 PM
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A thousand times this. Even "if" Shoeless Joe Jackson did was he was accused of, it's nowhere near what Pete Rose did.

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Screw Calford.


Re: All I will say about that is, if HE ever gets in, Shoeless Joe Jackson should

1

Oct 5, 2024, 8:52 AM
Reply

Don’t get me wrong. I’m a fan of both Rose & Shoeless Joe being in the HOF. But as part of the 1919 Blacksox scandal, Shoeless Joe was accused of throwing the World Series for gambling purposes. I don’t think he did, as his World Series stats that year testify. But if the allegations were true, that’s far worse than just betting on a game. That would be taking it to a whole other level by intentionally throwing the series.

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What he did was wrong

8

Oct 1, 2024, 8:56 AM
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But if they ever let noted steroid users like Roger Clemens, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds, Jose Canseco, and Alex Rodriguez into Cooperstown, then they surely should let the all-time hits leader in. 4,000+ hits is insane.

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I do not believe any steroid users should ever be allowed into the Hall. Unlike

5

Oct 1, 2024, 9:21 AM
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Rose, they actually cheated AT the game, WHILE they were playing it, getting an unfair advantage. For this reason, I still consider Henry Aaron the All Time Home Run King, not the steroid tainted numbers Barry Bonds put up. Same with the individual season home run records. Aaron Judge with 62, then Roger Maris at 61, then Babe Ruth with 60 in the American League. Ruth should get an asterisk as holding the record for a 154 game season, still. In the National League, Giancarlo Stanton at 59, Ryan Howard at 58, and Hack Wilson at 56. You can throw out all those tainted homers hit by Bonds, McQuire, and Sosa during those juiced years. I do not, and never will, count those as legitimate records.

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Re: I do not believe any steroid users should ever be allowed into the Hall. Unlike

1

Oct 1, 2024, 11:30 AM
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Do you believe that the Football HOF should be held to that standard as well?

Should players that are suspected of steroid use be excluded or just ones that tested positive? Should tests outside of MLB protocols be included where chain of custody is questionable?

Roger Clemens never tested positive for steroids. Barry Bonds has 4 tests associated with him with positive results. Three were by BALCO where his name was not on the sample, but notes lead investigators to believe they belonged to Bonds. There is a 4th test by MLB that came up negative on their results, but was later retested during his perjury trial that came up positive on the second test.

For Bonds the circumstantial evidence is pretty strong that he knowingly used steroids, but there has been no smoking gun and he never failed a MLB test.

During the steroid era of baseball there were a lot of fingers pointed. Most of the accused were probably guilty, but most of the accusers had something to gain, so I think it is futile to try to sort through who is right with all of it. Put players in the Hall based on what they did on the field. If they are suspected of something, put a note but be sure to include reasons that these are accusations and not proven actions. Leaving the men out completely penalizes the fan as much as the player. We should be allowed to think for ourselves.

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Re: Posthumous Poll:

7

Oct 1, 2024, 8:57 AM
Reply

If you have PED users in the Hall of Fame then Pete needs to be there as well.

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Totally different situation. I never thought any juicers should be allowed into

3

Oct 1, 2024, 9:24 AM
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the Hall either. They actually cheated WHILE they were playing, which is much more egregious to me than what Rose did. They should not be in the Hall, and their records for home runs and the like should not be recognized.

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Not approving of somebody or something they did should not ever be used.

6

Oct 1, 2024, 9:07 AM
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It's the hall of FAME!! Not the hall of HONOR!!

Is Pete Rose famous? Absolutely. By not including him, it is just whistling past the graveyard, IMO.

It reminds me of when Hollywood city council had Donald Trump's star removed from the Walk of Fame. It's silly, especially considering how many criminals are on the sidewalks along Hollywood Blvd.

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"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car."

"I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it."


If you were alive to watch him play would know why he should be in the HOF

4

Oct 1, 2024, 9:21 AM
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I wasn't a fan of Rose but that guy played the game like a warrior who game everything he had including sacrificing his body to win.

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The Artist Formerly Known as "The FIGHTINGDABOS"


If he had simply come clean on day one...

4

Oct 1, 2024, 9:43 AM
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rather then lying and then trying to rationalize/justify his actions, he would likely be in the HOF already.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


If they let him into the HOF, it seems a little lowlife that MLB sat

4

Oct 1, 2024, 9:48 AM
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around and waited for him to pass first!! They have maintained his guilt for all these years, and to suddenly let him in (after his passing) sounds like they knew they were wrong all along, but didn't want to admit it to Pete Rose!!

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Re: If they let him into the HOF, it seems a little lowlife that MLB sat

1

Oct 1, 2024, 12:10 PM
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Is the HOF for the player or the fans? I know to an extent it is both, but my point is that they are no longer punishing the Man. Why should they continue to punish the fan?

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Re: Posthumous Poll:

3

Oct 1, 2024, 9:56 AM
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A person without hope becomes hopeless. I just pray we don't find out he took his own life over this. It sounds like he had a lot of cardiac issues so natural causes is more probable, and his family and fans will rest easier if that was the case here.

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Update: So far, votes are running 4 to 1 in favor of letting him into the Hall.

1

Oct 1, 2024, 10:06 AM
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A lot more forgiveness here on the TNETS than I would have imagined.

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Any record that doesn't include Pete is a travesty!

2

Oct 1, 2024, 10:11 AM
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He deserves to be in the Hall of Fame

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Re: Posthumous Poll:

2

Oct 1, 2024, 10:12 AM
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Pete Rose will still be the alltime hits leader when no one is still around that heard first hand stories about him. Of all active MLB players, only three are halfway to Rose's mark of 4256 hits. Freddy Freeman the active leader in hits is still 2000 behind.

Granted I think that several players that are not in the HOF should be, but, for me Rose is at the top of that list.

I know most would not buy the argument but it would be easy to argue that the 3 best players of alltime are not in the Hall. Roger Clemens has 7 Cy Youngs. Only 3 got to half of that total, Randy Johnson with 5, and Carlton and Maddox have 4. The last may be the most controversial, but Barry Bonds,in my opinion, was the best all around hitter that I was fortunate enough to watch. At the peak of his career, teams would walk him with the bases empty. That's what you do to the star little leaguer, not in a guy in the majors.

Put whatever notes you want by their names, but if you don't put them in, why have the HOF? I will not see another 7x Cy Young winner in my lifetime. I will not see anyone else have a 0.609 OB% for a season in my lifetime. Nobody will ever see another person have 4256 hits in MLB. What's the point of having a Hall Of Fame if you are going to exclude so many of the greats

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If you put a Cyborg out there, and he shattered all existing records, would you

1

Oct 1, 2024, 10:25 AM
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want him in the Hall of Fame? To me, that is what putting all those juicers in would be tantamount to.

If there were some ironclad way to get them to admit to when they actually started juicing, and consider what they had done in the game PRIOR to that time, if that still warranted inclusion, then put them in, with those ADJUSTED numbers.

That, to me is the real shame of the Barry Bonds situation. He was HOF worthy BEFORE he started juicing. But, he wanted that extra edge, that unfair advantage. He rationalized it by saying EVERYONE was doing it. If all the other lemmings are jumping off the cliff, does that mean you should follow them?

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Re: If you put a Cyborg out there, and he shattered all existing records, would you

1

Oct 1, 2024, 12:04 PM
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I do think that Barry Bonds knowingly took steroids, but he never failed a MLB test. I just think that it is pointless to try to figure out who was guilty in that era, who was not and to what degree. Put a note and let the fan figure out their opinion for themselves.

What might be the biggest injustice is all of the people that Barry Bonds is keeping out of the HOF. People look at what he did and have decided that steroids give somebody a huge advantage. Barry Bonds would have likely went down as one of the top 10 hitters of all time without steroids. You compare him to a cyborg, but his gains were not something that others have not achieved naturally. The difference is none of those people could swing a bat like Bonds.

If we are going to take the stance that suspicion of steroids is an offense that should keep players out of the HOF, what do we do with pitchers accused of scuffing baseballs? Should we remove Gaylord Perry from the Hall for throwing spitballs?

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He and Shoeless Joe belong in the Hall

2

Oct 1, 2024, 10:19 AM
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If Bonds and others of his ilk ever get in and those 2 haven't I'll be done with MLB entirely.

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I couldn't agree more!***

1

Oct 1, 2024, 10:51 AM
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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: Posthumous Poll:

2

Oct 1, 2024, 10:20 AM
Reply

I was a huge Rose fan growing up. I tried to play the game like he did. I just didn't have the coaching or talent. When it came out that he possibly bet on baseball I, like most others, thought it was a set up. Then he took a VOLUNTARY lifetime ban. At that point I realized he had been lying to us all from the beginning. NOBODY that is innocent takes a lifetime ban. So for a longtime Rose kept up the lies. FINALLY, when he thought it would get him reinstated, he admitted he bet on baseball and the Reds in particular. Now there are those that say, he only bet on them to win. Okay, but say they're up 9-8 in a close game he has bet on and decides to bring in a closer that has already pitched back to back days. Say that closer blows his elbow out. Now he's jeopardized that man's career to save his bet. Makes it no better than betting against his team.

There is ZERO justification for what he did!!! RULE 1) DON'T BET ON BASEBALL!!!! Rose not only violated that rule, but he flaunted it in the face of baseball and those that were fans of his. Shoeless Joe Jackson has a better case to be let in than Pete will ever have!!!

Never put Pete in the Hall. He doesn't deserve it!

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Re: Posthumous Poll:


Oct 5, 2024, 8:58 AM
Reply

Shoeless Joe Jackson has a better case to be let in than Pete will ever have!!!


Thumbs up for that statement alone!

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Re: Posthumous Poll:


Oct 6, 2024, 12:10 PM
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The mere fact we are speaking about shoeless Joe this many years later is proof of his Fame. Fame and history belong in the Hall. Just let them know what they did bad right along with it. It may make the HOF more interesting in the future

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Re: Posthumous Poll:

3

Oct 1, 2024, 10:28 AM
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Does a lifetime ban go away when you are dead?
Put him in the hall of fame.
He earned it!

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YES, without a doubt he should go in within the next 3/4 years

2

Oct 1, 2024, 10:30 AM
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And possibly next year.

Yes he did something terribly wrong, and he admitted as much.

However, your sport cannot have the man with the most hits ever in MLB history, not be in anything called a HOF and it be considered legit.

Also, Mark/Barry/Sosa along with others from the steroid crew need to be in the HOF. The sport was coming off a very bad strike in 1994 and something had to happen to keep baseball alive and the summer of 1998 was it. What a spectacle, it was unlike anything I've ever seen in my lifetime. Baseball was back, and I will be darned if some steroids will take anything away from that summer and those years. It was an infusion of interest from around the world, and I loved it.

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Option 3

2

Oct 1, 2024, 10:53 AM
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There needs to be a section of the Hall of Fame for players that get in with an asterisks/issue. It can be a room that has them with a plaque, but also contains history of what kept them out for an extended period of time. Shoeless Joe, Pete Rose, and Bonds/Clemens/Sosa/McGwire/etc could be potentially inductees to that room.

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Re: Posthumous Poll:

1

Oct 1, 2024, 11:34 AM
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It’s odd knowing why he’s banned and watching espn these days with a live crawl at the bottom with odds on every player, game and circumstance.

Watched the documentary on Charlie hustle and thought he had a great chance to present his case to a largely sympathetic audience. He came across as pretty sleazy actually.

That being said he should be in the hall of fame. Played the game with such passion and the greatest hitter who ever lived. Rip Charlie hustle.

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I wonder if he placed a bet on himself making it in after he died?

1

Oct 1, 2024, 11:40 AM
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That’s so Pete!

~JKB

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Re: Posthumous Poll:

2

Oct 1, 2024, 12:05 PM
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Hate the sin, love the sinner! As an athlete, he was HOF worthy. As a human, he was less honorable and someone you would probably walk across the street to avoid if you knew about him. We tend to conflate one with the other. HOF player/athlete - YES. Good all around human - Hell to the no!!!

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Re: Posthumous Poll:

2

Oct 1, 2024, 12:07 PM
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Yes. A suspension was warranted, but not a lifetime ban.

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IMHO in with an asterisk along with Joe Jackson***

2

Oct 1, 2024, 3:25 PM
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Re: Posthumous Poll:

2

Oct 1, 2024, 3:50 PM
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Yes, without question.

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Re: Posthumous Poll:

1

Oct 5, 2024, 6:51 AM
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Ray Fosse votes NO!

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Re: Posthumous Poll:

1

Oct 5, 2024, 7:17 AM
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Absolutely YES!!! If they let all of these steroid users in then they should definitely let Pete in. And I don't care if they put an asterisks symbol by his name, but he and Joe Jackson should both be recognized.

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"If a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal."


Re: Posthumous Poll:

1

Oct 5, 2024, 8:57 AM
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The only way I'd be OK with Pete Rose getting in the Hall, is if it's a package deal with Shoeless Joe Jackson. If one deserves enshrinement, so does the other.

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