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All-In [29860]
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My question how did we get here?
Sep 25, 2021, 11:08 PM
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Dj was not a recruiting pick up, he was a target. Our o line guys were not 2 stars. We got more out of 5 heart recruits a few years ago. These guys are products of our program, our system, our philosophy. What the ever living he77 is so out of synch here? Even if we only had 5 plays, run well, we’d have more offense. We’ve got some deep scouting, development, and play calling issues.
I don’t want to bag on Dj cause he’s just doing what he’s told, but how does he get this far in the program with what seems to be regression, not development, and without plays better designed to suit his talents? so many questions on the o side of the ball.
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110%er [7004]
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Re: My question how did we get here?
Sep 25, 2021, 11:15 PM
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Dj was not a recruiting pick up, he was a target. Our o line guys were not 2 stars. We got more out of 5 heart recruits a few years ago. These guys are products of our program, our system, our philosophy. What the ever living he77 is so out of synch here? Even if we only had 5 plays, run well, we’d have more offense. We’ve got some deep scouting, development, and play calling issues.
I don’t want to bag on Dj cause he’s just doing what he’s told, but how does he get this far in the program with what seems to be regression, not development, and without plays better designed to suit his talents? so many questions on the o side of the ball.
Years of recruiting poorly on O line have come home to roost. Im hopeful this is changing. Bad/no development at that position compounds the poor recruiting.
Bad OC. Just cant get around it. The offense has been on a worrisome trajectory for years. We lost the best rb in school history, the number 1 pick, and multiple nfl receivers. There are no more fig leaves for Elliot.
DJ has a ton of talent but I overestimated how ready he would be to play. Watson and Lawrence are Outliers. Im being reminded of that.
Hiring decisions more focused on culture/continuity than pure ability. This is speculation but I cant name one offensive staff member who is thought of as a rising star. Clemson ties are great but not sufficient. I’d love to have Korn on staff but unenthused is thomas Austin replaces Caldwell.
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All-TigerNet [11207]
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The struggle will be Dabo has mixed friends with business
Sep 26, 2021, 12:09 PM
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Some would even say that all the former players are family more than friends. And what's that old saying? Never mix business and family?
At some point the decision will need to be made - do you want to keep running your business (i.e. Clemson Football)? Or surround yourself with friends? And if you choose the former, well, you have to accept you're going to lose some friends when you cut them out. Such is life and this is business, not personal.
People crow about Saban, but even with the one-year coaches (Kiffin, Sark, etc.) the feeling from Alabama is always "you have a job to do and if you can't do it, GTFO." We need a little of that right now.
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Hall of Famer [21935]
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At the end of the day
Sep 25, 2021, 11:23 PM
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In the college game, it all lies at the feet of the coaching staff. Period.
Coaching wise we've chipped away at the offensive staff to the extent the culture has changed. What they're putting on the field is what they think is a winning product. We can all agree, that at every position, we just look worse. No real other way to say it. There's no creativity. There's none of the eye candy to get defenses confused. The personnel groupings are constant. There zero exploitation of mismatches. Tempo is gone.
Personnel wise, were missing first rounders that mask our disadvantage in coaching. We are desperately missing a slot guy.
We haven't really distributed the ball to all of our weapons in quite some time...and now that's showing up like a red wine stain on a wedding dress bc the guys we got ain't gonna be on any posters.
I think we've been in this spot - schematically - for a few seasons now. We just don't have the horses to make up for it. And I personally think that's why we are so ######. We don't have the capacity to change or fix it, based on what I've seen.
At this point we're going to be beating a dead horse. The fan base is going to split over those calling for change and those thankful for the past. We have a dark few months* ahead of us as Clemson football fans, but luckily we've been here before too haha
*Disclaimer: hopefully it's only a few months
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All-In [29860]
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Re: At the end of the day
Sep 26, 2021, 12:41 AM
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My fear too. We've built a box we're now trapped in. And our punishment is a sh** season.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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We have the highest rated OL we've ever had by far
Sep 26, 2021, 8:40 AM
[ in reply to At the end of the day ] |
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That is a lie
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Hall of Famer [21935]
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What's a lie?***
Sep 26, 2021, 9:12 AM
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Sorry, responded to wrong person***
Sep 26, 2021, 10:08 AM
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110%er [7004]
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You are not wrong, which is why I'm hopeful OL will improve
Sep 26, 2021, 11:21 AM
[ in reply to We have the highest rated OL we've ever had by far ] |
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in the years to come. But bad OL recruiting takes years to climb out of because it is rare for any freshman lineman to be ready to contribute.
McFadden and Bockhorst were 3 stars. Two of our other starters are underclassmen. We also don't take many OL recruits, which cuts down on competition and leaves us in a bad spot when injuries hit, like this year.
"Lie" is a bit harsh, imo.
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All-In [30829]
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Ain't nobody on the team hungry anymore
Sep 25, 2021, 11:37 PM
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I've seen no fight in anybody except for one run that DJ made against GT.
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All-In [29860]
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Re: My question how did we get here?
Sep 25, 2021, 11:42 PM
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The super frustrating part is the program. If were gonna be a 7-5 team, which we might, it's whole lot worse being 7-5 loaded with talent and million dollar coaches vs. a tommy bowden 7-5 packed with 3 stars. After all the wins, and the lessons, and the facilities, and the weightroom, and the training table, and all the infrastructure...were back to this crappy product sh**?
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Great question, fun discussion. We know it didn't happen
Sep 25, 2021, 11:49 PM
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overnight: we had the same symptoms last year but with a generational QB, RB and WR's. We still underperformed then got exposed, and the oline issue is a decade old. So I'll have to again quote Mark Richt quoting B Bowden when Charlie Ward was struggling: "Mark, he's throwing to the other team, and I've seen enough of it. Is it his fault, your fault, or my fault?" In this case, which is it?
Of those factors, I'll say its not the players. Sure, a four star might not pan out, but the players are too good to play this bad. Missing on some four stars doesn't mean a whole unit of them gets beat up every week. They can play better than this.
It can't be Dabo, because he predated all this. He built what became Clemson football, so its not him.
That leaves the O coaching staff. It's easy to rag on them, but the recruiting has been too good to play this bad. While this situation was developing, the O staff became almost all ex players, which is a different profile from the D staff. Correlation is not causation, but if you're stacking evidence for where the issue is, the factors seem to isolate that staff.
All that is captain obvious I suppose, so maybe the question is whether its motivational ability within that staff, standards of performance, work ethic, etc. The O side of the ball does seem lifeless, running in sand (except Shipley). I don't think we can know the exact shortcomings of the staff. If we could, Dabo would not be worth a bunch of million dollars. Only he can know, I think.
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All-In [29860]
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Re: Great question, fun discussion. We know it didn't happen
Sep 26, 2021, 12:40 AM
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Good insight. The culmination of what we've seen coming, without generational talent to mask it. Dabo's made tough decisions to take the program to the top in 2016 and 2018, and I trust he'll do the same again.
I get loyalty, and pride, so maybe it's time we see an "OC in waiting" or "OL coach in waiting." That let's everyone save face. Dabo gets to say he didn't make a bad hire, and others get to say they were ready to retire or spread their wings elsewhere. What ever works. What happens behind closed doors during that transition period, ie, who's doing the actual work and who's preparing their resume or retirement, can stay behind closed doors.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Right. The scenario that came to my mind was TE being
Sep 26, 2021, 1:40 AM
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reassigned to some other duty, and the dominos falling from there depending on who is hired to be OC. Dabo has always had a person in mind for situations like this. I don't know if he can pull another Venables out his hat, but we'll see. I am trying to remember a situation where a team grew out of a situation like that, but I can't remember one. New leadership seems to always been needed.
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Lot o points [155901]
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The worst part about that scenario.....
Sep 26, 2021, 2:00 AM
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dollars to donuts it's an internal promotion, likely Streeter.
Dabo's allergic to interviewing. It's like he hit big on BV and cashed in all his chips.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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I would hope that is not the case, but id so will have to
Sep 26, 2021, 2:01 PM
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hope Streeter or whoever happens to have the OC ability necessary.
Leadership is everything. Arkansas has gone from horrible to great with new leadership. That is lacking somewhere on the O side.
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Lot o points [155901]
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Most of my answers have been taken already, but yes, some
Sep 26, 2021, 1:57 AM
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of us have been pointing this out about our playcalling for 2-3 seasons. It was just as bad then but no one was going to stop the horses we had even with a high school offense. It didn't get much traction as a gripe because who gripes about an OC when the team is winning and RUTS on most people?
Chickens have come home to roost though. Either Dabo got complacent with hiring or started sniffing his own farts so much that he thought inexperienced former players of his with known integrity and work ethic were all he needed to turn into world-beaters. When the time comes for the coaches to have to earn their pay by winning games with strategy, our glaring inexperience has come to the surface.
Tony - I've written enough about his shortcomings
Streeter - Love the guy and apparently a good recruiter, but what QB have we had since he took the position (other than Stoudt vs OK) who actually showed real progress over their careers here? DW? No. KB? No way. TL? Nope.
Grisham - WR play dropped off last year and is abysmal this year. We have veteran guys who don't know the plays, how to get separation...it's insane.
CJ - SMDH. We might not have a decent backup now to Pace, but hey, we know the hierarchy in the RB room!
Caldwell - He's the epitome of the definition of insanity and has been for a decade.
Dabo knows there's an issue. I don't believe him stupid enough to not know. I have doubts that he has the stomach for the wholesale changes that need to be made to rectify them. They've occurred under his watch, and besides violating his loyalty to these guys, it's a smack to the ego to crap can a large portion of a staff that you built---it's a big neon sign that you failed. Bigger issue is they aren't changes you make mid-season. We're eating a shid sandwich this year, and the worst part is we have no clue if the staff next season will look much different.
Right now though, it's the keystone cops on that side of the field. You can play the Benny Hill theme song (I used this reference before Ted Lasso ever did, so eat it apple) for most of our offensive plays and it works.
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All-In [45744]
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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We lost our humility. And stopped having fun.***
Sep 26, 2021, 2:48 AM
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CU Medallion [60043]
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How are you so wrong all the time?
Sep 26, 2021, 5:03 AM
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Football. Coronavirus. Life. Liquor. Beer.
You swing and strike like it’s a profession.
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All-In [45744]
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Is it too late....
Sep 26, 2021, 5:43 AM
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To enter the transfer portal? It sucks to be us on the down slide. We are cycling out.
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CU Medallion [60043]
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I heard it 100x yesterday
Sep 26, 2021, 6:03 AM
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it’s where we belong.
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Lot o points [155901]
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And you may ask yourself, where is that $2M OC?***
Sep 26, 2021, 9:27 AM
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All-In [45744]
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