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Hall of Famer [21846]
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I've seen a lot of Winning % talk about how good CBB is,
May 28, 2022, 6:21 PM
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and he has outperformed our historical average, which is irrefutable.
However, I thought, let's take a look at our last 5 coaches. You know a more "modern" look.
Brad Brownell(2011-present) - 56.8% (3 NCAAT)
Oliver Purnell(2004-2010) - 61.1% (3 NCAAT in a row)
Larry Shyatt(1999-2003) - 45.5% (0 NCAAT)
Rick Barnes(1995-1998) - 60.7% (3 NCAAT in a row)
Cliff Ellis(1984-1994) - 58.1% (3 NCAAT in 4 years)
Take from it what you will, just a different way of looking at facts.
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All-TigerNet [10452]
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Fourth out of five over last nearly 40 years based on that.***
May 28, 2022, 6:26 PM
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110%er [6006]
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Re: I've seen a lot of Winning % talk about how good CBB is,
May 28, 2022, 6:46 PM
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Not trying to defend CBB, but of the other 4 coaches, the 3 that had a higher winning percentage left on their own.
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Hall of Famer [21846]
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Some may look at that as some kind of indicator in and of
May 28, 2022, 6:52 PM
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Itself.
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All-In [28363]
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Re: Some may look at that as some kind of indicator in and of
May 28, 2022, 6:58 PM
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you’ve already got the dumb responding.
valleygirl sees ricks 3 year tenure as same.
you can’t make this sh*t up.
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All-In [28363]
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this proves, without a doubt, cbb is better than
May 28, 2022, 6:53 PM
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shyatt.
shout out to jk. nice work!
top 80% baby.
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110%er [8534]
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Re: I've seen a lot of Winning % talk about how good CBB is,
May 28, 2022, 6:53 PM
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What it tells me is there is not much difference in performance over the years as expected. It also tells me if a coach has a career winning % at Clemson, he should be in the Hall of Fame.
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110%er [6981]
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Re: I've seen a lot of Winning % talk about how good CBB is,
May 28, 2022, 10:22 PM
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Took Brownell longer to do less than the other three coaches above him. He is better than shy it, but shy it actually got fired from Clemson
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Legend [16902]
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Re: I've seen a lot of Winning % talk about how good CBB is,
May 30, 2022, 3:35 PM
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Larry got fired in only 5 seasons because we still had standards for basketball then. Controlled for SOS, Brownell is arguably no better than Shyatt.
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Legend [17596]
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Another point
May 28, 2022, 7:53 PM
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The ACC was the top conference in the land with top coaches and players during the Foster, Ellis, Barnes and Purnell eras. Not so much anymore.
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All-TigerNet [10400]
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Re: Another point
May 29, 2022, 7:37 AM
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Yep. The ACC is mediocre in basketball now.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Another point
May 30, 2022, 2:12 PM
[ in reply to Another point ] |
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The ACC was the top conference in the land with top coaches and players during the Foster, Ellis, Barnes and Purnell eras. Not so much anymore.
When Purnell went to the ACC championship game (an accomplishment that people say is equivalent to brownell's sweet 16 run) the ACC was one of the worst it has been in recent memory.
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Legend [16902]
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Orange Blooded [4558]
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Re: Another point
May 30, 2022, 3:43 PM
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Thank you for providing receipts on an utterly ridiculous take by mountaineer.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Another point
May 30, 2022, 4:18 PM
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Utterly ridiculous?
That year was extremely weak by acc standards. Only 4 teams made the ncaa tournament. The only ranked teams we played in conference all year in conference were Duke and unc. Only 4 ACC teams had a winning conference record. UNC went to the final 4, Duke and vt lost in the the round and of 32, and Clemson lost in the first round.
The ACC was garbage that year.
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Orange Blooded [4558]
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Re: Another point
May 30, 2022, 4:38 PM
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Yes, utterly ridiculous. We’d never hear the end of it from you Brad made an ACC championship.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Another point
May 30, 2022, 4:52 PM
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Why is it utterly ridiculous?
Making the ACC tourney was a great accomplishment. That was one hell of a game against UNC. Really wish we won it. We outplayed them, but unfortunately we went 14-26 at the free throw line and that caused us to lose. We then went on to lose in the tourney in the first round as a 5 seed, which was a very disappointing end to a season. We went 14-23 at the free throw line.
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All-In [40767]
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What does this really tell us?
May 28, 2022, 9:25 PM
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1) At least we don’t still have Shyatt.
2) Cliff Ellis's winning percentage though not that impressive is still better than Brownell’s.
3) Barnes and Purnell inherited dumpster fires. The start of their tenures brought down their overall winning percentage therefore their overall winning percentage doesn’t paint an accurate picture of their tenures.
4) Barnes and Purnell greatly improved the program by the time they left which in turn got them good job offers. BTW That’s what happens when you’re good at what you do. If you’re not getting what you want from your employer you go to work for someone else because if you’re good enough someone else will meet your demands.
5) Purnell made a mistake by leaving. Clemson made a mistake by not doing what it took to retain him.
6) Brownell has been the coach at Clemson for 12 years. For all of the talk about the support that he’s not getting apparently no one has pitched a better offer at him because well, you know, potential employers don’t think he would be a great hire. Wonder why they would think that way?
Pulling hard for Brad and the team this year but at this point I’ve become numb so that I don’t set myself up for disappointment.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: What does this really tell us?
May 30, 2022, 2:23 PM
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1) At least we don’t still have Shyatt.
2) Cliff Ellis's winning percentage though not that impressive is still better than Brownell’s.
3) Barnes and Purnell inherited dumpster fires. The start of their tenures brought down their overall winning percentage therefore their overall winning percentage doesn’t paint an accurate picture of their tenures.
4) Barnes and Purnell greatly improved the program by the time they left which in turn got them good job offers. BTW That’s what happens when you’re good at what you do. If you’re not getting what you want from your employer you go to work for someone else because if you’re good enough someone else will meet your demands.
5) Purnell made a mistake by leaving. Clemson made a mistake by not doing what it took to retain him.
6) Brownell has been the coach at Clemson for 12 years. For all of the talk about the support that he’s not getting apparently no one has pitched a better offer at him because well, you know, potential employers don’t think he would be a great hire. Wonder why they would think that way?
Pulling hard for Brad and the team this year but at this point I’ve become numb so that I don’t set myself up for disappointment.
The talent level left for OP in year 2 was just as good as what brownell inherited
Who would you rather have?
Sharod Ford, akin akinbala, Shawn Robinson, olu balbaloloa
Or....
Tanner smith, Andre young, Milton Jennings, Devin booker, catelin baciu..
It's close, but not so far off. I personally would rather have what was left over for OP in year 2. I know that your reaction is going to be, "but we went to the tourney 3 years in a row prior"
WOW, we went to the tourney and lost 3 times in a row as the higher seed. We still had bottom of the ACC facilities, financial support, and our coach left for a better job at DePaul. LOL. That screams program stability.
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All-In [40767]
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Brad hasn’t done a better job than Purnell.
May 30, 2022, 3:29 PM
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That’s not even debatable to any logical person. Make your case with a brick wall. Maybe it’ll hear what you have to say.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Brad hasn’t done a better job than Purnell.
May 30, 2022, 4:25 PM
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Correct. Brownell has not performed better than OP. I have never said that, so not sure why you are making #### up. He has had better accomplishments, but not the consistency that OP had. I do think OP peaked at Clemson. That's just my opinion.
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Legend [16902]
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: What does this really tell us?
May 30, 2022, 4:28 PM
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Why do you think it’s acceptable to bash former players?
Wow what a snowflake you are. Lol.
Comparing the talent level of former players is bashing them?
Man, I can't say statements like, Trevor Lawrence was a better qb than DJU without getting viztiz triggered. My bad. I will try to keep you fragility in mind when I post from now on.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: What does this really tell us?
May 30, 2022, 6:26 PM
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So ultimately your answer is that you do support bashing players as a means to defend the coach. Even when that defense is founded entirely on fallacies.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: What does this really tell us?
May 30, 2022, 7:18 PM
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So ultimately your answer is that you do support bashing players as a means to defend the coach. Even when that defense is founded entirely on fallacies.
You are embarrassing.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: What does this really tell us?
May 30, 2022, 7:23 PM
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You constant, unrelenting defense of mediocrity is also embarrassing. That you freely bend the truth, lie, and insult our former players to accomplish this is pathetic.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: What does this really tell us?
May 30, 2022, 11:00 PM
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Have you ever said that brownell needs to
Recruit better? Doesn't that infer that our players haven't been good enough? Would that be bashing our players and unacceptable per your dumbarse logic?
If you don't think brownell needs to recruit better and that our mediocre play has been directly because of brownell's coaching ability, what planet are you living on?
The truth is, you have no clue what my viewpoint is on brownell. You aren't arguing with me, you are arguing with your deranged, wrong perception of my viewpoint.
You are a Moran.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: What does this really tell us?
May 31, 2022, 4:00 PM
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Love how viztiz scurried away when he realized his logic was incredibly stupid.
I have another suggestion for you. Can you adjust the win total for year 11 to 23 wins? It was one of the best regular seasons we have ever had. The season was cut short due to covid. We won 2/3's of our games. Adjust that out to a normal season still getting bounced first round of NCAA and ACC TOURNAMENT WOULD BE 22 or 23 (if you round up)
I understand you won't do this because it makes brownell look slightly better. Most haters on here have no clue about our basketball program and just take this dumbarse chart at face value.
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CU Guru [1868]
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Re: I've seen a lot of Winning % talk about how good CBB is,
May 29, 2022, 8:24 AM
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Agree that barnes and purnell are better coaches than brad.
Difference in career trajectories and time at clemson is kind of interesting, though. All three basically built one good team at clemson. For barnes it was the McEntire/jamison team. Purnell had the booker/rivers team. Brad had the et/devoe/mitchell team. Barnes took the texas job and has kept on grinding as a top tier coach for a long time. Purnell took the money from depaul and never did anything again. Brad has rested on his laurels, stayed at clemson a long time, complained about money and milked the program for all it’s worth . . . And failed to be competitive in a floundering acc . . . That’s what’s so frustrating.
Maybe he’s close to as good as the other two. Maybe he’s as good. I don’t think he is. It’s the attitude combined with the longevity and large salary that is aggravating
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: I've seen a lot of Winning % talk about how good CBB is,
May 30, 2022, 2:07 PM
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Who had bragged about how good brownell is based on his record?
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Hall of Famer [21846]
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I see reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit
May 30, 2022, 2:39 PM
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Or perhaps it’s that you can’t take your emotion out of it.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: I see reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit
May 30, 2022, 3:20 PM
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You said "I've seen a lot of Winning % talk about how good CBB is"
Can you please point a post/poster that you have seen posting about "brownell's winning % and how good CBB is"
That would be cool. I'm not saying you are wrong, I just haven't seen it.
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Hall of Famer [21846]
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There were a few threads over the weekend, but I'm not going
May 31, 2022, 4:06 PM
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searching for them.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: I've seen a lot of Winning % talk about how good CBB is,
May 30, 2022, 2:10 PM
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What is his record been his last 5 years compared to his first 7?
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Hall of Famer [21846]
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What does that have to do with my OP?***
May 30, 2022, 2:40 PM
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: What does that have to do with my OP?***
May 30, 2022, 3:22 PM
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Because your post lacks context.
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Hall of Famer [21846]
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Lacks context? There's very clear context....
May 31, 2022, 4:07 PM
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You trying to cherry pick lacks context
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Legend [16902]
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Re: I've seen a lot of Winning % talk about how good CBB is,
May 30, 2022, 3:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: I've seen a lot of Winning % talk about how good CBB is, ] |
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So you want to give him a curve for really sucking years 2&3? How about years 5-8 against 9-12? Better yet, how about throw out best and worst and see how close his total average is to the last four years? He isn’t a good coach.
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All-In [40767]
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According to your chart we are clearly in
May 30, 2022, 3:42 PM
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bear market territory with Brad right now. Now we may experience a short bull market but if history is any indication we will quickly slip back into a recession. To be the 37th highest paid coach in the land I would say we’re not getting a good return on our investment. We clearly need to have a talk with our financial advisor.
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Legend [16240]
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According to that accurately reported chart Brown L
May 30, 2022, 3:36 PM
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is the worst coach we've had since the 80's not named Larry Shyatt.
But #OverAchieve lol.
Also, if you look at salaries over their spans Brad has earned more than all of those others combined. But we don't support him lol.
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Orange Blooded [2847]
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Somebody left the door open
May 30, 2022, 4:40 PM
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To the Lunatic Fringe Clubhouse where beating a dead horse is a constant activity.
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Legend [16902]
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and in walks jstone.
May 30, 2022, 6:29 PM
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Did you just get out of a therapy session with coach Lee. Got a love a guy who pushes to hold back Clemson athletics so long as he gets access to the coaches. Can’t risk hiring a winner. They might not make time to stroke your ego like Brownell.
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110%er [5683]
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