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110%er [9101]
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If we were to mix it up with Russia and/or China
Jan 24, 2022, 4:03 PM
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what kind of shape is our military in to be able to take care of business? We haven't had a major "conventional" war since WW2 or maybe Korea. Vietnam was more guerilla warfare with cold war weapons, and Afghanistan and Iraq have definitely been more guerilla warfare, in terms of how our enemies fight. Do we have the equipment and training to go toe-to-toe with either of these - hi-tech to hi-tech conventional warfare? The Navy hasn't impressed with it's at-sea collisions and breakdowns, and retiring new classes of ships (littoral combat) after not even 10 years (I think - close to it, anyway), and having ships totaled due to in-port fires started by one sailor. All branches seem to be overly occupied with political initiatives - vaccines, transgender policies, politics, etc. But that's just what's making the news, so what do I know.
Those of you who are currently in or have served in recent years, what do you think?
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110%er [5672]
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Re: If we were to mix it up with Russia and/or China
Jan 24, 2022, 4:18 PM
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Good questions.
They call them "near-peers." You first need a scenario to establish context, and then we can debate whether the military can handle it.
Like, where are we fighting? If we have to travel 4,000 miles to fight in someone's backyard, that brings a lot of challenges with it.
How far are we willing to escalate without fear of a nuclear exchange? If we went against Russia or China, we would try to limit it to an air and space war (as usual). How many bombs are we dropping and on what? If we pound them too badly, they may light off a nuke in our face.
How much are we willing to risk an attack on the US homeland? Or, Hawaii, Guam, Alaska?
China has demonstrated via test they can take out key US satellites. It is hard to defend. If they were to surprise us with an all-out attack on our space infrastructure, that would be a big problem for us that would seriously hamper all command and control. It would keep us home.
Things get messy real fast. I suspect if we get serious, we get serious with special forces going in at night with surgical precision. Unless they get captured, we still have plausible deniability.
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CU Medallion [57064]
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Re: If we were to mix it up with Russia and/or China
Jan 24, 2022, 4:20 PM
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We’re in pretty good shape. Once GEN Milley has a chance to consult his dog-eared copy of “White Fragility,” he’ll know just what to do.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: If we were to mix it up with Russia and/or China
Jan 24, 2022, 4:22 PM
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110%er [9664]
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I'm afraid if we went toe-to-toe with either or them, it
Jan 24, 2022, 4:23 PM
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wouldn't remain conventional warfare if/when someone got the advantage.
I don't like the idea of sending troops to Ukraine. We definitely have to pick our battles and they aren't NATO, so...
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I'm afraid if we went toe-to-toe with either or them, it
Jan 24, 2022, 4:31 PM
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110%er [5672]
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Re: If we were to mix it up with Russia and/or China
Jan 24, 2022, 4:30 PM
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Also, important to note the US has something called OPLANS (Oh plans) for perceived, credible go-to-war scenarios. Like N. Korea attacking S. Korea. Those plans have been around for decades...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPLAN_5027
I assume we have OPLANS for China-Taiwan and other near-peer aggressions that would "require" a US response.
If these OPLANS are being executed, some big chit has hit the fan. We won't be worried about transgender women on the swim team.
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110%er [9101]
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If we were ever to get in a large scale conventional war
Jan 24, 2022, 4:50 PM
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with either, but particularly China, it could become a war of attrition. Unlike WW2, we're not going to be able to replace our losses in months. Most won't be able to be replaced at all - if nothing else, much of our tech comes from China, and of course, most weapons systems these days are mostly tech. No chips, no satellites, no fighting capability. The US is no longer self sufficient like we were back then. We're very much China-sufficient, and other countries as well, so that would throw a whole different element in there.
A war with Russia, would most likely be in one of its neighbor's backyards, like Ukraine.
A war with China would mostly be a naval and air battle. I don't see where ground forces, except for special forces, would be involved much.
The converse would be true with Russia - air and ground forces mostly, with little naval involvement, short of missions from aircraft carriers and SLCMs and such.
I used to love reading Tom Clancy's takes on all this - like Red Storm Rising. But I sure don't want to live through one. I'm with most that China plans to topple us financially, not militarily. But who knows. Like I said - I'm content leaving these scenarios to books and movies!
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All-TigerNet [13098]
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Re: If we were to mix it up with Russia and/or China
Jan 24, 2022, 5:37 PM
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We would lose. Bigly.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: If we were to mix it up with Russia and/or China
Jan 24, 2022, 5:44 PM
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Yet, some Trumptards on this site think we should go stop them with military.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: If we were to mix it up with Russia and/or China
Jan 24, 2022, 5:55 PM
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110%er [6692]
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Re: If we were to mix it up with Russia and/or China
Jan 25, 2022, 4:29 AM
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There have been a few who have stated that Biden should stop them and that they would never do what they are doing if Trump were in charge. Why, because they would be scared of Trumo?? Why? The militray is what they are saying, Einstein. Moreover, you should be ashamed to be a Trumptard. You chimed right in.
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All-In [34582]
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110%er [6692]
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Re: If we were to mix it up with Russia and/or China
Jan 24, 2022, 5:42 PM
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We would be destroyed if we did it there. They would be destroyed if they did it here. Ir's that simple.
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All-TigerNet [12591]
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Re: If we were to mix it up with Russia and/or China
Jan 24, 2022, 10:22 PM
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We are in a situation in Europe where a misstep could set in motion unimaginable horror across the globe.
If we get in a war with Russia and/or China, it will not be lengthy and could escalate into a nuclear exchange- probably limited, but a limited nuclear exchange is an oxymoron. Everyone loses.
Hopefully there will not be a misstep or miscalculation.
We sit on the precipice of a war that could spin out of control, yet there are those at the highest levels of our government who are so myopic to believe white supremacy is our greatest threat.
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