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Hold all students, including athletes, to the same admission
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All-TigerNet [10401]
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Hold all students, including athletes, to the same admission
Jun 21, 2021, 12:36 PM
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standards. Let's see how this plays out.
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All-In [30766]
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And take away the scholarship, trainers, clothes
Jun 21, 2021, 12:41 PM
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Stipends...
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All-In [25889]
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Re: And take away the scholarship, trainers, clothes
Jun 21, 2021, 1:20 PM
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All schools would not agree to that but I agree with you.
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All-In [30766]
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Lol..I doubt any school would agree.. no1 would
Jun 21, 2021, 1:22 PM
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Even mention it as a possibility.
Instant social media death.
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Orange Blooded [3041]
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Re: Hold all students, including athletes, to the same admission
Jun 21, 2021, 1:25 PM
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Agree. Apply to the school and get it. Hold football tryouts. The best students make the team. The games would look more like high school than the NFL but I don't the think fans would be any less enthusiastic about the games.
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110%er [5013]
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CU Medallion [51526]
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All-In [38472]
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Re: Hold all students, including athletes, to the same admission
Jun 21, 2021, 1:47 PM
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Students and student athletes are not the same animal. The "New CFB" will separate it even more.
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Starter [377]
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Re: Hold all students, including athletes, to the same admission
Jun 21, 2021, 2:27 PM
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Okay, but at the same time, hold all students, including non athletes, to the same revenue producing standard for the University while enrolled on campus and lets see how that plays out!!!
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Orange Blooded [3041]
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Re: Hold all students, including athletes, to the same admission
Jun 21, 2021, 2:31 PM
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Why would you do that? You don't hold any football player to revenue producing, do you?
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All-In [30766]
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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All-In [30766]
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Seems like it was a knee jerk entitlement post
Jun 22, 2021, 11:08 AM
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He didn't think it thru.
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All-Pro [654]
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I actually like football
Jun 21, 2021, 2:43 PM
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I'd prefer to keep football.
But if Clemson does decide to completely get rid of sports, I'll still love it.
Hopefully instead Clemson keeps sports & we continue to love them & get past this rights issue being fixed.
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Legend [15730]
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For clarity, student-athletes making money isn't a right.
Jun 23, 2021, 10:12 AM
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They certainly have the right to make money off of their name/image/likeness. They also have the right to accept an offer to go play sports at a college level. They do not, however, have the right to make money off of their name/image/likeness if they accept an offer to go play sports at a college level.
This baffles me that people forget this.
You have the right to not get the vaccine, but there may be some organizations that prohibit you from entering their facilities or participating in their activities.
You have the right not to wear a shirt, but you can't go into the 7-11.
You have the right to spout off with crazy conspiracy theories or far right or left thoughts, but if your spouting damages the reputation of your employer, you will probably be let go. Heck, most of us are limited in our rights to get a second job as long as we work for our primary employer.
Playing college sports means accepting parameters. You must maintain a certain GPA. You must adhere to certain practices, mandatory meetings, etc. You may not profit off of your participation. Want to make a buck and think you can do it without the school affiliation? Knock yourself out. Want to make a buck because you are the super-famous and popular QB of a champion level program? Sorry, we do not allow that. But of course you can still try to make money...just not while we are associated with you.
Whether players profiting off of playing college sports is good or bad remains to be seen (I obviously think it's bad). But the Student-Athletes "rights" were never infringed.
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All-Pro [654]
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Re: For clarity, student-athletes making money isn't a right.
Jun 23, 2021, 10:45 AM
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They do not, however, have the right to make money off of their name/image/likeness if they accept an offer to go play sports at a college level.
This baffles me that people forget this. Whether players profiting off of playing college sports is good or bad remains to be seen (I obviously think it's bad). But the Student-Athletes "rights" were never infringed.
I'm afraid this is only going to sound rude, but I have to disagree. This wasn't just a rights issue, but an inherently basic one at that. Making it clear they should have the right to not be limited by an arbitrary number is what the Supreme Court just voted 9-0 on, for example. We don't have to like it, but the rich old white guys being the only ones making money & in the billions is something I'm OK with not being used to anymore.
I'm actually with you; I don't love the idea of the players being paid. I like the notion they're just doing it for the pure-hearted goodness of it all.
I like the idea of others getting filthy rich at the players' expense far less, but it's because it's a rights issue that it had to change.
I'm hopeful we change with it in the right direction, but this change was always inevitable & we have to deal with it; I'm thankful Clemson University has a defining consistency of impeccable ethics & more to help steer these changes in the right direction, particularly from the players' side (which they've never had before).
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Legend [15730]
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I believe you’re taking a very convenient broad
Jun 23, 2021, 12:27 PM
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Interpretation. Of the recent SCOTUS ruling, which related to providing education-related products to student athletes. The step issues are unrelated, Kananaugh’s write-up aside (which I commented on previously).
I’d be weary of arguments that appeal to authorities like the SCOTUS. There is a lot of nuance in those cases, akin to the Obamacare fine being legal because it is actually a tax. Basically speaking - can an organization limit your ability to profit off of your name/image/likeness if you want to be in association with them? Yes they can. The rest is noise.
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Freshman [-100]
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Re: Hold all students, including athletes, to the same admission
Jun 21, 2021, 2:52 PM
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If this is on a college-by-college basis, then USuC would probably be beating us after a few years.
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Associate AD [832]
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Re: Hold all students, including athletes, to the same admission
Jun 21, 2021, 3:01 PM
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Schools like Howard would win the National Title every year. At least Notre Dame would suck.
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All-In [30766]
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Schools like Howard already win NC every
Jun 21, 2021, 3:19 PM
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Year
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Associate AD [832]
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Re: Schools like Howard already win NC every
Jun 21, 2021, 5:55 PM
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Yeah they would have to move up a division too, but they have only won it twice in the last 90 years and haven't won it since 1996..
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CU Guru [1697]
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They are already held to the same standard...
Jun 21, 2021, 3:47 PM
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there are no students competing with athletes for admission to any university. If you believe that there are, please provide the source. Non-athletes are competing against non-athletes for admission, just review the admissions vs the applicants numbers to see that not all get in because there are far more applicants than admissions.
When an athlete meets the Clemson standard for entry, he or she does not take away an opportunity for any qualified non-athlete to gain admission... please stop with the class warfare...
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All-In [30766]
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Completely disagree. You can make derogatory
Jun 21, 2021, 8:54 PM
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Comments all day but it doesn't make it true.
The minimum sat score for power5 athletes is 400. You seriously believe the average highscool applicant has a 400 sat? Do you think any power 5 would look twice at an applicant that only had a 400 say score?
If the freshman class can only hold 3000 incoming students and there are 500 student athletes then you can easily say those 500 spots could have gone to another student who wasn't an athlete. That's just math.
...there are definitely student athletes who would easily qualify academically for the schools they are in. No doubt.
But do you honestly, in your heart of hearts, swear on everything you hold dear... believe the majority of these scholarship student athletes would be qualified if they didn't get special cosideration?
Do you think they would qualify if they were held to the same academic standards?
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CU Guru [1697]
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College admissions is not 100% about academics
Jun 23, 2021, 12:32 AM
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Community service, school activities, and more are part of the admissions process... the numbers of incoming freshmen slides according to the admissions considerations of each school. There is not a set number of incoming freshmen that is intentionally equal to any other school. For the 25 football players, 4 basketball players, 5 baseball players, and keep counting the number of freshman in each sport, 3000 becomes 3000 + the number of incoming athletes.
Don't allow yourself to believe that myth of athletes taking anything away from a non-athletic student. Why does Clemson or any other school have a concrete cutoff of whatever number of new admissions when a margin of error is favorable? Do you not realize that transfer students don't get counted as new freshmen?
A school can make any designation of students exceptions, exemptions or otherwise labeled to achieve whatever purpose the school desires...
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Legend [15863]
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admission standards to what ?
Jun 21, 2021, 3:52 PM
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Nursing ? Chem E ? "political science" ?
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Team Captain [495]
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Re: Hold all students, including athletes, to the same admission
Jun 21, 2021, 5:42 PM
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There is no such standard. Admissions at essentially all colleges/universities these are more about getting the PC mix they want. Go look at all of the admissions records that were released after the courts ruled that students could see them. There is more gerrymandering in admissions than in voting.
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All-In [43994]
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This, times a thousand!!
Jun 21, 2021, 7:20 PM
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I agree 100%.
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Associate AD [832]
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Re: This, times a thousand!!
Jun 21, 2021, 7:33 PM
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The schools make too much money off the great athletes to do that. I wonder what % of our team would have got in without football? 30% Who knows? What about at UNC?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: This, times a thousand!!
Jun 21, 2021, 7:45 PM
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Associate AD [832]
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Re: This, times a thousand!!
Jun 21, 2021, 7:51 PM
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It's entertainment for the regular student body and alumni. It makes the school more appealing for many people applying ...imo.
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110%er [9646]
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One could easily make the argument that admission to
Jun 23, 2021, 9:54 AM
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Clemson is more difficult now due to the success of the football team - so theoretically, Clemson is getting better students. So - sports is a necessary evil perhaps?
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Hold all students, including athletes, to the same admission
Jun 23, 2021, 12:40 PM
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Include the 40YD dash, 5K times, bench-press/deadlift, 10 free throws, shotput, and one's standing vertical for other student and you got a deal.
Still, I have no issue looking at the total application package for the student. Athletics can show similar accomplishment standards while having additional time demands and constraints. Just as you would look to community service or other extra curricular activities, a successful student go beyond just the academic metrics. - And this is a PhD speaking here.
The problem is when schools are deliberately ignoring that a potential student/athlete does not have the capacity to be both a student AND an athlete and solely uses the kid for their own gain in which the kid neither progresses academically and is cast off if there is no athletic benefit. See South Carolina, OSU, SEC and UNC.
I think that "washout" scholarship recipients SHOULD count against the school's scholarship counts. Thus if you give a kid a scholarship his freshman year and he skips classes, flunks, dropsout etc, then the school is on the hook for 4 years for that scholarship.
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