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3 categories of covid protection status
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3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 29, 2021, 7:29 AM
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1) Unvaccinated but previously infected
2) Vaccinated
3) Unvaccinated and never infected

No one in category 1 or 2 needs to be included in any discussions/ debates about covid protection based on vaccination status.

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 30, 2021, 4:32 PM
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What about

unvaccinated and didn't know you were infected?
vaccinated and didn't know you were infected?

I think the issue is this

1) we can give boosters with a vaccine to evolve with Covid .... Can you depend on you natural immunity to do so?
2) If you can depend on your natural immunity to evolve with it, do you know how your body is going to respond to the new version? i.e. maybe it was a slight "cold" the first time but what next?
3) What happens if you have had covid before and hit with a new version and RSV or the flu together? What will that look like?
etc

Personally, yes, natural immunity is best. However, no one knows how your body will react to Covid. Nobody. If you have had it or not. We do know how you'll react with a vaccine. We do know we can provide boosters. We do know there are virtual no side affects

I just don't understand the continual push back on getting a vaccine. It is mind boggling to why you wouldn't get a simple, inexpensive shot

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status

[1]
Aug 30, 2021, 5:01 PM
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Ok let me try one more time since it’s mind boggling to you. I believe my natural immunity post covid is far better than the vaccine. We are seeing more doctors speak up about this. I had an extended conversation today with a doctor. I’ll just say he’s not just any doctor and I’ll leave it at that without giving away any identity. I told him I had a strong dose of covid back in December and have not been vaccinated. He said “Your immunity is most likely much better than any vaccine”. So, I can not understand why people can’t reflect my decision to avoid a vaccine I most likely do not need. I do have a medical background and I believe I can make a competent personal decision. The vaccine is absolutely not without risks and I won’t take a chance on the risks unnecessarily.
I respect the decisions of those who have been vaccinated. I would like others to reflect mine. But if they don’t I really don’t care.

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 30, 2021, 5:33 PM
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"Your immunity is most likely much better than any vaccine"

**most likely much better**

What does that mean? Maybe you're paraphrasing and I get it, but have you taken an antibody test to determine how much protection you currently have in your system? How quickly is it degrading? When does it cross over from being helpful to giving you a false sense of security?

These are the questions i have ... people have requested significant justification of the efficacy of the shots. So i would like the same. Show me. Prove to me. I have seen the Israeli and few other studies which have shown the natural immunity protection. I get that. What i haven't seen is how long that lasts? How does it evolve? What's the response to a different version than Alpha (which you likely had)

But not "i talked to a doctor i can't name and he said probably, most likely i'm ok."

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 30, 2021, 6:07 PM
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Yes “most likely better” is 2 guys standing in the yard talking. I’m not basing anything on one conversation. I’ve done my research. I understand how the body normally responds post infection. I have not had my antibodies tested and it’s been 8 months. I have 2 friends that are 14 months post infection and still have serum antibodies. Please understand that when serum antibodies decline it does not mean your immunity is gone. Your body does not need to circulate serum antibodies forever. Eventually you store memory cells in bone marrow and the “army” can be called up at a later time. People who had the flu of 1918 were found to have “memory cells” some 7 to 8 decades after infection. I can’t “prove” anything g to you. No one can “prove” anything about the vaccine. Sometimes the vaccine works , sometimes it doesn’t. 3 weeks ago I had a 15 minute face to face conversation with a friend who was fully vaccinated. I remember thinking he sounds like he’s got a cold. 2 days later he was more ill and tested positive. I was as directly exposed as you can get. So far I’m good. I’m honestly not trying to be a jerk or discourage anyone from getting the vaccine. But I’m making a decision based on some knowledge. No need to do a risky vaccine. That’s really all it is.

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 30, 2021, 6:23 PM
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1) "I can’t “prove” anything g to you."
2) "No one can “prove” anything about the vaccine"

1 - i thought as much. Your conjecture is that the virus acts like the flu (by your example). Is this true? How do we know? What proof do we have? Have you tested your bone marrow? Or studies which showed this?

2 - this is not true. We have mountains of data and research to point to. And we know the efficacy declines over time as Covid mutates.

I appreciate the conversation and your continual fact based approach to it.

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status

[1]
Aug 30, 2021, 6:47 PM
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No I have not tested my bone marrow. Look you’ve had the vaccine and you feel confident. I’ve had covid and I feel confident in atural immunity over artificial immunity. I can’t prove I’m completely protected. No vaccinated person can do that either and that’s absolutely being proven. So, let’s just all respect individual choices and call it a day.

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 30, 2021, 7:39 PM
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I'm just asking questions....what's wrong with that?

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 30, 2021, 8:47 PM
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I might have interpreted your last statement as smug when you didn’t mean it that way. I apologize.

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 30, 2021, 8:08 PM
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https://www.rockefeller.edu/news/30919-natural-infection-versus-vaccination-differences-in-covid-antibody-responses-emerge/


It’s all new data but all recent studies are showing natural immunity is much stronger long term.

Read the B cells findings. These are your long term antibodies.

Natural immunity B cells have been continuing to evolve over a year later while vaccine has stalled after 2 months.

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 30, 2021, 8:08 PM
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https://www.rockefeller.edu/news/30919-natural-infection-versus-vaccination-differences-in-covid-antibody-responses-emerge/


It’s all new data but all recent studies are showing natural immunity is much stronger long term.

Read the B cells findings. These are your long term antibodies.

Natural immunity B cells have been continuing to evolve over a year later while vaccine has stalled after 2 months.

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 30, 2021, 8:50 PM
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Thanks for posting this. I just can not understand why this is surprising to anyone in medical community. It’s the way the dang body works. This is not new!!!

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 30, 2021, 10:23 PM
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Interesting, and makes sense, but this is what i read:

- "memory B cells can stick around" - Keyword can

- "natural infection births memory B cells that continue to evolve over several months" - How long does it last afterwards?

- "memory B cells continued to evolve and improve up to one year after infection" - UP TO. What is the average? What happens after a year?

- "maybe it’s that the virus persists in the naturally infected for weeks, giving the body more time to mount a robust response. The vaccine, on the other hand, is flushed out of the body mere days after triggering the desired immune response." - Is this why natural individuals have more instances in long covid? Is this why we have mutations emerging out of hosts that continue to circulate active viruses in their body as opposed to vaccinated?

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 31, 2021, 6:06 AM
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The words “can” and “evolve” are positive words. “Can” means this is what we are seeing to date and this has precedence in other responses to viruses in history. “Evolve” means your natural immunity grows stronger and more broad spectrum to mutations as time goes on. That does not seem to happen with the vaccine. As for your other questions, yes, covid infected people have better opportunity to mount a robust defense and a stronger long term antibody response. I think with your last question you’re suggesting the unvaccinated with natural immunity are spreading the virus more than the vaccinated? ( If I’m understanding). That’s not true at all. Interestingly there was a Stanford medical school professor on Laura Ingram last night saying “you’re probably safer in a room full of recovered people with natural immunity than in a room with vaccinated people”. The quote might not be exactly word for word but you can look it up.
I’ve been saying this for months. Heck, I had covid in December and have been making natural immunity my choice since then. I feel strangely fortunate to have had covid and recovered so I don’t have to consider the vaccine.

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 31, 2021, 8:34 AM
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You're right can is a positive word! How did i miss that in earlier vaccine coverage

"Vaccines help people develop immunity to a virus or other germ ... Later, if the person encounters that germ again, their immune system can “recognize” it and “remember” how to fight it off."

So you are referring to Jay Bhattacharya. Yes I am aware of him, and no, I am not surprised you are getting your positions from Fox News - which by the way has vaccine mandates and requirements for all of its staff #awkward

Yes, you have made it well know you had Covid in December. And it begs the question, on the previous article of protection "up to a year" as you are coming "up to a year" .... so what happens next for you? Do you know what happens in December? Or beyond? Even before then? Are you above average or less? How do we know? Or is it blind faith?

And no my last question isn't around spreading differences between vaccinated and unvaccinated. It is the question that Covid can infect both. This is clear. However, vaccinated people are able to fight off the disease quickly whereas unvaccinated cannot (the difference is roughly 5-6 days versus 10-14). Thusly Covid is replicating and mutating for a longer period of time in unvaccinated individuals leading to more instances of long covid and further mutations of the virus because it is allowing more time to work it's way around a body.

Now as a man with a medical background, as you continually state, this is quite obvious yes? This is a benefit of vaccines. How does this work in previously infected individuals? How does your immune system respond to fight back against this?

I am just curious, because you state very strongly your opinion though your statements are based on "luck" "I have had covid" "I spoke to a friend" "I know a guy" "Here's an article that Judge Keller put up" etc.

I would enjoy seeing some evidentiary information supporting this position rather than look and feel. Wouldn't you?

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccine-what-you-need-to-know


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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 31, 2021, 2:50 PM
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Just remember when we’re talking about the unvaccinated we should be referring to the never infected. Unvaccinated and previously infected is different. It’s apples and oranges. How do I know I’ll be immune in a year or more? I don’t. Neither does any vaccinated person. We make decisions based on what we observe and what we can forecast based on historical precedence with viruses. It seems viral load likely plays a role in amount of memory cells and longevity of immunity. I was sick as 3 eyed goat so I got a pretty heavy load. There’s no guarantee in any of this. We are still learning about an ongoing virus. You can research and find well decorated and respected doctors on both sides of the immunity debate. Time will determine which side is right.
By the way, I watch Fox News on occasion but I assure you I don’t base my opinion about immunity on what the news tells me.

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 31, 2021, 3:24 PM
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Unfortunately you can't change what words mean. Vaccinated has a distinct meaning, and i would suggest you wouldn't want to be called vaccinated since you feel it is a lesser form of protection.

But others have pointed this out, and you are seeing it as well ...

If you want to lump the previous infected into the vaccinated pot so as to be given access overall to society, how do we know someone has had covid before?

Are you willing to engage in iterative testing every 4-6 months to prove you still have immunity and if you fall below a level then you would be restricted? We clearly cannot take people for their word. So how do you propose we address this?

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 31, 2021, 6:33 PM
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I absolutely would not submit to such testing. Are the vaccinated folks going to submit to testing? No, and they should not have to either.

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 31, 2021, 11:50 AM
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It’s up to 1 year because the stuff has been going for you guessed it, one year lol. It’s says they have evolved every time they’ve rechecked every time though.

That same article says small pox vaccine B cells can last 60 years. Think they knew that instantly or after 60 years of studying?

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 31, 2021, 12:10 PM
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Covid has been circulating for nearly 19 months now ... not a year.

So what happens?

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 31, 2021, 1:02 PM
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The study** has been going for a year

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 31, 2021, 1:07 PM
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So what happens to people who had Covid in march/April 2020?

Please enlighten me if you do. These are answerable questions.

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 31, 2021, 1:09 PM
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And the vaccine studies have been going since they began administering them. And have proven the B cells stop evolving after 2 months. After a year of retesting those infected and recovered their B cells are still a year later. Maybe they will stop at some point maybe they will evolve for 5 years. 20. 100. We obviously don’t know that yet. But we do know at an absolute bare minimum naturally immune B cells evolve for up to 5 times longer than the vaccine.

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 31, 2021, 1:38 PM
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And what happens when the virus mutates and uses this "immunity" against a non-vaccinated person as was the case in the 1918 Spanish Flu with people who were infected during the Russian Flue Pandemic of 1889-91?

i.e. the people who gained "immunity" during the Russian pandemic in 1889-91 had the highest sick and mortality rates in the 1918-1919 Spanish flu precisely because the virus evolved to trick this natural "immunity"? How quickly does that happen with Covid? 1 year? 5? 10?

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 31, 2021, 4:47 PM
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I'd go get the vaccine...lol. What ifs are an unintelligent argument.

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 31, 2021, 1:09 PM
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And the vaccine studies have been going since they began administering them. And have proven the B cells stop evolving after 2 months. After a year of retesting those infected and recovered their B cells are still a year later. Maybe they will stop at some point maybe they will evolve for 5 years. 20. 100. We obviously don’t know that yet. But we do know at an absolute bare minimum naturally immune B cells evolve for up to 5 times longer than the vaccine.

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There is push back because NOBODY knows about long-term


Aug 31, 2021, 1:43 PM
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effects, and there's ZERO evidence supporting the need for a booster. You can get covid no matter what your vaccine status is.

I have been jabbed, but don't come after me about boosters. It was risk enough taking an unknown (long-term) vaccine.

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I'm not sure I get the, "we can give


Aug 31, 2021, 2:07 PM
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boosters to evolve with covid".

Do you mean new recipes of an original vaccine will need to be created, or are you saying the original formula will naturally evolve with a mutating virus?

The latter is not true.

We've seen the original vaccine formula have great efficacy against the delta variant, but precisely like flue shots a new recipe will be needed every year. The original vaccine will not naturally evolve just because some people want to provide booster after booster.

Just like the flu shot, newly developed formulas are needed every year to fight mutated flu strains
Being this way since 1918. Continually pumping people full of booster shots hasn't shown any true efficacy. Fauci is far from an expert.

Amd too, we don't even have a clue what long-term effects of the vaccine are. I'm vaccinated; stop trying to repeatedly jab me for no proven reason or proven (long term) safe recipe.

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Nope. There are 4

[1]
Aug 30, 2021, 6:25 PM
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#4 - Smug vaccinated Tiggity that thinks he knows everything.

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1. Should be "Unvaccinated but still within the 90 day

[1]
Aug 31, 2021, 8:38 AM
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window of getting COVID to where you can't get the shot."

Your bull #### of "I'm naturally immuned. I've had it once so I can't get it again" is ########.

There are tons of data out there of people who have had COVID getting it again.

There are also a lot of people who have had COVID, got the shot, and got COVID again but because they got the shot it wasn't so bad.

This idea of one and done is getting a lot of people killed.

Yall like comparing this to the flu. But even with the flu you can get it multiple times.

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We've all heard of folks getting COVID twice - but have


Aug 31, 2021, 8:58 AM
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many of them been really sick the second time? (I haven't heard.)

Perhaps natural immunity helps make the symptoms milder - just as the vaccine's immunity helps with that...

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Re: 1. Should be "Unvaccinated but still within the 90 day


Aug 31, 2021, 12:04 PM
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I don’t think I ever said I can’t catch covid again fbcoach. I did say natural immunity is equal to or greater protection than the shot. That is true and as time goes by you’re going to find that to be true.

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Re: 1. Should be "Unvaccinated but still within the 90 day


Aug 31, 2021, 12:05 PM
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It's not though

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I really don't follow this logic for those that are


Aug 31, 2021, 10:42 AM
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unvaccinated and haven't had COVID though, which are typically the ones using this as justification for not getting the shot.

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" is a crock of shit.

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Re: I really don't follow this logic for those that are


Aug 31, 2021, 12:07 PM
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You don’t follow the logic for the unvaccinated who have never had covid because natural immunity does not apply to them!!! As I read these posts I’m starting to think some of the problem is that people do not understand what is meant by natural immunity.

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I don't think we are the ones confused***


Aug 31, 2021, 12:08 PM
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No, I understand your point. What this thinking has led to


Aug 31, 2021, 12:11 PM
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though is folks who "swear I had it" think they shouldn't get a vaccination, or prefer to have a bout with it instead of being vaccinated.

Get the vaccine, booster if/when available. When folks depend on you for financial, familial, spousal, and parental support, it's selfish to act any other way.

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Re: No, I understand your point. What this thinking has led to


Aug 31, 2021, 12:44 PM
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Ok I hear you and I think we agree. I’ve never encouraged the unvaccinated never infected to opt out. But I do believe people like me who had knock you on your butt covid have a viable option to opt out. People in that category are not being selfish. Notice I’m not even saying do not get the shot even to those folks. I’m just saying you have a choice and opting out is reasonable if you do choose.

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Ok if folks in #1 have received confirmation

[1]
Aug 31, 2021, 11:57 AM
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My concern is people who claim they are #1 without having a prior positive test. I know a few folks that swear they had it, describe very minor symptoms, were never tested, but walk around claiming they are fully protected.

They may very well be, but I don't believe it unless a test confirms it. Still no reason to be scared of a little shot.

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Re: 3 categories of covid protection status


Aug 31, 2021, 1:23 PM
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I'm not sure how long natural immunity lasts compared to the vaccine. I will say that my wife had Covid last year in October. At that time she pretty much just had cold symptoms and was a little more tired than usual for a few days. The being tired part was probably the worst part of it for her and she never had a fever any of the times we checked.

She got it again about a month ago(late July) so it was probably around 9 months or so. The second time was pretty mild as well but was a little harder on her than the 1st time around. She had a fever a few times over the course of 2-3 days that got as high to maybe just under 102 that went down whenever she took Tylenol. Aside from the fever her symptoms were mostly similar to the 1st time she had it, except she had some minor body aches and still hasn't totally gotten back her full sense of smell yet. She was also vaccinated back in April.

It's hard to say how much immunity if any at all was still left over from the 1st time around or how much of a factor that immunity was in comparison to the vaccine, but either way we're lucky enough to say she got through both times without much of a problem.

What's interesting is the 1st time she had it both me and my son tested negative twice and showed no symptoms. This past time around several other members of her family and our son tested positive and all showed at least mild symptoms. I didn't get tested this time around and quarantined just to be safe, but I never showed any symptoms at all. To my knowledge I've never had Covid unless I had it at some point without knowing. I was vaccinated back in April, but I had several exposures in the year prior to that and was always negative whenever tested.

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