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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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You want a criticism for Trump from me?
Mar 16, 2020, 7:32 AM
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HERE IT IS!
I am so disappointed in Trump. No, it's not about those idiots who assumed if they didn't get back to the US on the first flight they would be stuck with Eurotrash for the duration of this plague which is upon the world.
I lost some respect for Trump because he let the bureaucrats in the FDA and CDC bullchit him into thinking both could be trusted to handle a health crisis. Trump lost his stones by trusting and depending on bureaucratic dupes who act as if their over regulated organizations could wipe their own butts.
He is the President, the most important man on this planet and should have exercised his authority by declaring a National Emergency when he declared our Public Health Emergency Jan 31st. It's as if he cared what the MSM would say and what reaction it could cause. He should be ashamed to let them bs him and convince him they knew what they were doing and how well they could handle testing of this virus.
I tried to blame the FDA and CDC but that was me dodging the fact that this is Trump's FDA and Trump's CDC. There is no excuse, he should have shut them out of the process and gone straight to the industry and told those capable of design and production of testing product and equipment and safety products and equipment to get off their aszes and fix this. He should have told the FDA and CDC to #### off and stay out of the way.
See, that's the Trump America elected, not that poosie who allowed those bureaucratic tails to way the Big Dog. I would fire the entire bunch and find some people who wouldn't be mesmerized by the power of those positions and think the bureau was the end all to end all.
Sure the media would chit a brick but they've chit so many over the last three years every one of them has square b-holes. BIG DEAL, Americans would know who has the bug and how many should be living in quarantine now. Trump turned into a helpless little man when he trusted government. He knows better.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: You want a criticism for Trump from me?
Mar 16, 2020, 7:40 AM
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He thinks windmills cause cancer. He might want to sit this one out.
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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He's a real idiot.
Mar 16, 2020, 7:44 AM
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He even failed to visit with all 57 states.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: He's a real idiot.
Mar 16, 2020, 7:48 AM
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Obama meant 57 states and territories. That's who votes. 57. Trump really thought windmills cause cancer.
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Standout [347]
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One was a mistake in speech. One is something our
Mar 16, 2020, 1:56 PM
[ in reply to He's a real idiot. ] |
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president actually believes.
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All-In [42026]
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So, let me make sure I'm getting you here...
Mar 16, 2020, 8:08 AM
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Trump cut the CDC team that was put in place to protect us against this stuff. The CDC also warned us from the very beginning that this whole thing was bad. Meanwhile, Trump insinuated it was a hoax during a rally. He also spread the "it's not as bad as the flu" myth on his Twitter machine. And his followers gobbled this up, some of them still echoing these lies on this board. Trump sycophants like Hannity even claim it was a Deep State conspiracy to bring down Trump.
And the only criticism you have is that Trump listened to the CDC?
Buddy, if he had listened to the CDC earlier...
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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Trusting the functionality of a gov bureau is an error...
Mar 16, 2020, 8:58 AM
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in judgement. Gov Bureaus are slow because they are overgrown. They have no desire to correct because growth is their main focus. I would fire every one who was involved in delivering test. Trump's mistake was allowing them to handle the testing.
If you put every bureaucrat in a sock and sling it around whichever one comes out is just as bad as the ones left in the sock. The firings changed nothing. If you're thinking that a few more bureaucrats might have made things better then you're not as intelligent as I thought.
Trump sent a clear message with his actions.
Trump declares a 'public heath emergency' Jan 31 and announced mandatory quarantines for incoming citizens with coronavirus Jan 31
Non-US citizens who had recently been in China barred from entering US. Feb 2
Feb 28 Trump names VP Pence to coordinate between WH and health adivisory team
Trump expands restrictions to Iran with advisory fot travel to SOKO and Italy Feb 29
Trump changed FDA policy to help expand testing and make it quicker Feb 29
Trump met with drug industry heads to help with containment and initiate research into remedies and vaccines Mar 2
Trump finally ordered CDC to lift all restrictions on testing, anyone can be tested with Doctor's order Mar 3
Signs 8 bil coronavirus spending bill Mar 6 and met with insurance companies for covering co-pays for testing
Trump met with banking exe to work on economy and ban on Europe, Japan, SOKO, China Iran. Mar 12
Meanwhile, you are trashing him for every move he makes. If he put on a researcher's gown, went into a lab and developed a vaccine which could be produced and distributed by Friday afternoon you'd say he murdered everyone who died between now and then. While he was taking care of business you guys were trying him in the senate. Remember?
The left criticizes him constantly. So much and often that no one pays any attention to it. It's SOP for the left.
When I do it you know it's bad.
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All-In [42026]
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It's of my opinion...
Mar 16, 2020, 9:04 AM
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That our entire government didn't act fast enough on this, and there are multiple people who deserve the blame. But Trump deserves probably more than most, if not simply for his usual dangerous rhetoric that he spouted early on. I think he's learned now, but the damage is done. There are still idiots believing conspiracies, and they're going to get people killed.
But ultimately, all that doesn't matter now. What matters now is curbing this whole thing. We can pass out blame later.
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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I just laid the blame on him.
Mar 16, 2020, 10:05 AM
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I don't know wtph you want. You want me to say I'm voting for Joe or Bernie and going totally gay with the rest of you?
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All-In [42026]
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Eh, not really.
Mar 16, 2020, 10:44 AM
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You threw all the other groups under the bus and blamed Trump for just trusting them, which isn't what happened. His initial response to this crisis was inexcusable--downplaying and conspiracy theorist. And you haven't held him accountable for cutting the CDC team that could have helped stop this.
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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I have as much justification to say the team he cut would...
Mar 16, 2020, 10:49 AM
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have made this worse as you have to claim they would have stopped it. In fact, I have more because there is no way our government could stop it. It was here and upon us before China published the discovery. That's fact.
What good does it do to help stop someone from breaking a glass if the glass ends up being broken? Your claim is devoid of logic.
However, I admit I wish he hadn't fired those people so he could fire the entire bunch now. At least you wouldn't be lording over a subject with your idle speculations.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Trusting the functionality of a gov bureau is an error...
Mar 16, 2020, 9:15 AM
[ in reply to Trusting the functionality of a gov bureau is an error... ] |
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Millions of people go to work in the public sector to help serve their fellow man and their government and you guys trash them for not being drive my some profit-motive company. All of these millions of public-service minded Americans that you denigrate and disparage because they are not at the mercy of some bourgeoisie boss who can fire them on a whim.
Again, I don't get how you intend to make America Great when you hate the governm,ent and you hate such a sizable chunk of Americans.
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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Stop exaggerating.
Mar 16, 2020, 10:22 AM
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I said nothing about hating anyone. I said the bureaus are bloated and slow.
I think you wish I hated so you could justify your hate for me and other Trump supporters. I think you're stupid, dumb or just misinformed but you think I'm evil.
You deceive yourself intentionally so you can claim moral superiority. If you're happy with yourself, I'm happy for you but don't lay hate on me. That's your thing.
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Hall of Famer [24695]
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The CDC deployment to China was non-existent due to cuts.
Mar 16, 2020, 10:49 AM
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An early appraisal would have been much more effective, though I doubt it would have contained it. I definitely think it would have given the US a head start on reacting ...
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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Bullshiff.
Mar 16, 2020, 10:58 AM
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China refused to allow the US or any other nation to help in Wuhan. Studies show that the virus started in Nov. Working back from the reported numbers at later date. Those numbers are probably less than accurate so the plague might have started earlier.
China covered up the outbreak for weeks and you claim we didn't go because we didn't have qualified people due to trump firing them?
Did he fire the WHO too? Where were they when Wuhan was quarantined?
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All-In [26968]
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No, I do not.
Mar 16, 2020, 8:33 AM
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Let's focus on supporting our leaders at this time.
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Oculus Spirit [97677]
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Trump has had a yuge learning curve IMO
Mar 16, 2020, 8:49 AM
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See, he's used to running businesses. In business, when you're at the top, those under you are competent, and have risen up themselves. In government, when you're the head of a beaurocracy, those under you have risen up too, in a non-profit driven system that's not constrained by inefficiencies, or anything else a normal business has to address.
Trump should just bypass federal agencies, cut their BS red tape, and deal mainly with states and private industry. In a normal mega business, Trump would let those underneath him handle things. That doesn't work at the federal level. Too much bureaucracy, too inefficient. Relying on the federal government for anything is going to be a disappointment.
Here's an example: BIL working on a billion dollar road project. They have to use yellow tape, and it has to be a variety that's only made by 3M, and that comes only from China. Well, it's NOWHERE to be found now. In theory, they can't start this billion dollar project legally because of the freaking YELLOW TAPE. I'm not joking either. So they have written and submitted through the proper BS process, a request to use different yellow tape, since none meeting the requirements are available. Just BS like this is what kills us.
The BS CDC testing requirements stalled our testing until Trump bypassed it. Now the bean counters are wringing their hands over the variety and quality of the tests. Fuggit. If it's 87% or 96% accurate, that's better than no testing at all! The more red tape we unravel, the better we will be able to deal with this. But this WILL unravel a LOT of red tape.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Trump has had a yuge learning curve IMO
Mar 16, 2020, 9:06 AM
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I am always amazed at people who would describe themselves as proud Americans who HATE their government and HATE a huge number of other Americans. What is the foundation of their American pride ?
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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You sound like a child.
Mar 16, 2020, 9:17 AM
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As soon as someone disagrees with you it's 'Why do you hate me!'
Dood, these people on this board, both sides, are who I want on my side on gameday. Imagine how tight we'd be if we had to fight a war! This is fun and games, you act like our petty disagreements are more than trivial.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: You sound like a child.
Mar 16, 2020, 11:47 AM
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I could give less than a ratsass how you feel about me, but you disparaged millions of hard-working public servants especially the ones at the FDA and the CDC as if they were incompetent, lazy, and biased against Trump. So I was merely wondering if you feel that way about the American government and so many Americans, what is it that makes you proud to be an American.
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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I refuse to excuse Trump.
Mar 16, 2020, 9:14 AM
[ in reply to Trump has had a yuge learning curve IMO ] |
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He knows better. This is not a matter of his learning curve. To think that is to think that he knows less about bureaucracy than you or I. I just can't see that. Trump built in NYC. If anything he panicked and resorted to appeasing the bureaucrats thinking that he had no choice.
That's not Trumpish at all. As soon as he returned to his bull in a chinashop mentality things got rolling. I promise you, the CDC and FDA didn't advise him to set them aside and get it done.
Hmp, I just described a learning curve, didn't I. Damit, you're right. If he pulls something this stupid again I'm not voting.
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All-In [42026]
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Your criticism of the CDC is misplaced.
Mar 16, 2020, 9:18 AM
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They tried. They warned us. They're still telling us to go further.
Trump gutted a lot of the CDC. To label this as a simple bureaucracy misstep is a gross misunderstanding of what's happened.
Trump has failed here far more than the CDC.
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All-In [31404]
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Re: Your criticism of the CDC is misplaced.
Mar 16, 2020, 9:52 AM
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Whole lot of superficial understanding of what the CDC is and does. Then again, this is an internet forum and most of what I read here sounds like it comes straight from fox and friends.
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: You want a criticism for Trump from me?
Mar 16, 2020, 9:03 AM
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1988,
Do you mistrust anyone who knows more about their area of expertise than you do - or than trump does ? Cause that's an awful lot of mistrust.
These experts have spent their whole lives studying in their field. They have 100s of times more experience in that field than Trump or you. What is their motivation to give bad information in the time of contribution ?
Do you think everything in the world centers around whether someone likes Trump or not ? just because that is the way of the world does not mean that is the way that most people see things.
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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No.
Mar 16, 2020, 9:31 AM
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I read and consider but when it comes to decisions I make my own.
One of my daughters weighed 8 lbs 2 oz. The day after her birth and while I was home tending to other children she and her mom were at G'ville Memorial. Mama called me and said they want to do a spinal tap. I asked why, she said 'B,' has a fever.
I said how high, she said they didn't say. I said, 'Tell them sumbiches if they stick my child they will be working the rest of their lives trying to pay me and their lawyers off.'
See, 'B,' was a healthy baby girl full of life. GM is a teaching hospital. I had two open heart surgeries there. My first happened when I was 32 yr/o. I weighed 185lbs at 5'-11 3/4" tall. I could put my hand above the rim of a 10" goal but not high enough to dunk a BB.
I 'hung,' and finished sheetrock then played basketball with teenagers after working 8 hrs. I was the epitome of health. The nursing students used me for a pin cushion. When they needed to train to take arterial blood they came to me. I was fully aware why. My health.
When the doctors robbed my legs of veins to replace those around my heart they took viens from ankle to knee on both legs. I had kids doing my surgery because they knew I was going to be OK because I had little muscle damage. I didn't mind. I didn't care if they took veins which could be used on other patients. I was glad to help.
Not so with my child. So no. I don't trust anyone who professes to be an authority on anything until I try them in my court. Even God is still working on my trust in Him. He's doing a good job but I still need to trust Him more.
Ask me about it sometime.
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All-In [42026]
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Re: No.
Mar 16, 2020, 9:38 AM
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This seems like a dangerous approach to the world; mistrust of everyone based on one anecdotal experience.
Ironically, you have repeatedly placed blind trust in Donald Trump, a man who claims to be an expert on everything.
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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That's just one example but it's not the only one.
Mar 16, 2020, 10:03 AM
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I defend Trump but that doesn't mean I trust him. Imo, he was the lesser of two evils in the 2016 general and is the lesser of three right now. Four if you count Tulsi.
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All-In [42026]
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Re: That's just one example but it's not the only one.
Mar 16, 2020, 10:44 AM
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You have stated on this board before that he has earned your blind support based on another personal anecdote.
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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I said I would always give him the benefit of the doubt.
Mar 16, 2020, 10:54 AM
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If I actually said 'Blind faith,' you'd find it and post it. What you read becomes part of your wishlist of criticisms for Trump and anyone defending him. I don't have 'blind faith,' in any man.
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All-In [31404]
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Re: No.
Mar 16, 2020, 10:24 AM
[ in reply to No. ] |
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holy shitballs
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110%er [6101]
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Re: You want a criticism for Trump from me?
Mar 16, 2020, 10:01 AM
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Still don’t understand the panic over “testing” anyway. When you get sick, you go to the doctor. Do they “test” you for the flu? Nope, they assess your symptoms and say “you have the flu”, not “based on our tests you have H1N1, H3B9, H55N13” or whatever. If you catch this cold go to the doctor if symptoms can’t be resolved at home. Simple as that.
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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Lack of testing brings uncertainty and...
Mar 16, 2020, 10:11 AM
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allows leftist to exaggerate the magnitude of this virus spread. Imo, that is why the markets are going apechit. If we had accurate numbers of those testing positive we would know how benign this virus really is to healthy people.
We are overreacting but in the long run this will do great justice to America. It will show us that our FDA and CDC are filled and run by incompetent bureaucrats and help sort them out. It will force us to look for methods to deal with pandemics in the future.
The biggest positive is that it will promote voters to seek leadership which separates our economy from China's. China is learning from our reaction too. If we don't prepare to replace them in our supply chain we are going to be at their mercy.
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All-In [31404]
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Legend [15492]
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Re: You want a criticism for Trump from me?
Mar 16, 2020, 11:58 AM
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You forgot to mention that Trump, along with John Bolton, disbanded the Pandemic Strike Force within the administration in April of 2018. He also cut the CDC budget and imposed a hiring freeze on it resulting 700 unfilled postitions.
I do agree, however, that whoever at the CDC declined the W.H.O. test kits in February should be fired.
Trump's refusal to rely on experts has always been a problem. When he was being told how dangerous this virus was, he was at rallies saying "now the Dems have a new hoax."
He likes to pretend that he is an expert. He's a freaking real estate salesman/tv star.
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Varsity [203]
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Re: You want a criticism for Trump from me?
Mar 16, 2020, 12:55 PM
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Now a topic that so far, appears to be civil with no name calling. For the record, I am a die-hard conservative and Donald Trump supporter and I will vote for him again, and often LOL..
Having said that, here a few of the things I do NOT like about our current President:
- His bombastic style (especially Twitter, whatever the hell that gadget is?) that makes him come off (to me) as petty and petulant. However, with the headwinds he faces with the MSM, its probably a good platform for him. He has a ton of followers.
- Trump has made sooo many poor choices for key WH positions. They need WD-40 on the revolving doors they rotate so often with old going out and new coming in. Not making excuses for him, but he's not a politician with inside knowledge of how DC works.
- Trump said he was going to drain the Swamp. He GROSSLY underestimated the number of entrenched Reblicans there are in the swamp. He knew about the liberal etc, but not the Rs. These slimy ######## are everywhere from both sides of the isle that don't one drop of their swamp drained.
- Trump still doesn't (IMO) understand how slow our Congress works to get laws on his desk to sign, thus a ton of EOs. There is common ground between the parties on some topics but I don't know how hard Trump is pushing.. ie drug pricing or importing drugs from Candada, as an exapmple. Big Pharma are the life guards around and in the Swamp..
I'm a Trump guy, but he is human and made some bad choices and decisions. Good thread.
WT
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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Re: You want a criticism for Trump from me?
Mar 16, 2020, 1:41 PM
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Imo, there aren't enough people who can be trusted to fill those positions on his staff. That's why he uses his kids. He knows they follow orders and won't stab him in the back. Everybody else, not so much.
Claiming he would drain the swamp was a bold faced lie. Anyone with half a brain knows that if you put someone else in DC it won't be long until the temptation of easy money takes their soul. Trump knows this as well as anyone.
Congress has no gonads. Congress will never do the things Trump has done with EOs. That's why congress gave so much power to the Exe Office. The can back a POTUS from their breed of politicians and let him take the blame for doing what would have cost them their seats in congress.
Twitter, good and bad. I agree he could lay off the bitter personal attacks. His followers on twitter can handle that for him but he delights some people by fighting back.
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Oculus Spirit [93616]
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Felix, you got me all wrong.
Mar 16, 2020, 1:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: You want a criticism for Trump from me? ] |
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It was his dependance on the CDC which caused the problem. As you said, he usually doesn't seem to go along with most bureaucrats and this was the one time when respecting them is going to cost us all a lot of pain.
They one dependable thing about Trump is he cuts against the grain. This time he was no more a President than Obama.
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