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CU Medallion [73569]
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Lot o points [155916]
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So this might be unpopular with my conservative brethren,
Apr 20, 2022, 2:27 PM
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but I'm not sure I like this.
To be clear, I don't like Disney's activism in this matter whatsoever. With that said, I'm also not a fan of political retribution for retribution's sake. I might be missing something, but this doesn't feel any less sketchy to me than Lois Lerner and the IRS peppering conservative groups with audits.
It's political power being weaponized, and you can't cheer for it when it's something you like if you claim shenanigans when it's against groups you align with.
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All-In [42169]
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This is actually a complete anti-conservative action
Apr 20, 2022, 2:34 PM
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But don't try to tell that to the pro-authoritarians.
EDIT: X would be raising holy hell on here if a Dem did this to a conservative-owned business.
Message was edited by: Catahoula®
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Lot o points [155916]
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Yeah, I would much prefer Disney to get the message from
Apr 20, 2022, 2:40 PM
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40 percent of Disney plus subscribers cancelling en masse, but our convictions tend to fold when the kid's whining about missing their favorite shows.
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All-In [42169]
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Agreed...
Apr 20, 2022, 2:43 PM
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Let the market hold court on this. Disney is likely making these statements to appease customer bases, too.
No American should be cheering on a politician who seeks to punish private businesses for having political disagreements with him. And any who do are not conservative.
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All-In [42169]
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In addition...
Apr 20, 2022, 2:44 PM
[ in reply to Yeah, I would much prefer Disney to get the message from ] |
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If DeSantis and the Florida GOPers don't think Disney can't royally #### them over far more than they can to it, they're in for a rude awakening.
DeSantis may be the bull, X. Disney is the ####### mastodon.
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All-In [27134]
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It's Trump and Twitter all over again.
Apr 20, 2022, 2:57 PM
[ in reply to Yeah, I would much prefer Disney to get the message from ] |
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The Lardass-in-Chief constantly ranted about Twitter, but instead of jumping ship and taking his legion with him, which would have been a big hit to Twitter, he stayed on long enough to get banned like a little petulant thing he grabs.
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Oculus Spirit [97720]
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All-In [27134]
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I'd settle for non-state controlled stores.
Apr 20, 2022, 10:02 PM
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Costco's without liquor stores feel...sad.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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normally i would agree, but
Apr 20, 2022, 2:38 PM
[ in reply to So this might be unpopular with my conservative brethren, ] |
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we have increasingly seen corporations weaponize states that don't bow to their wokeness. See MLB, Hollywood, etc...
Sometimes you have to do something to send a message to the others.
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All-In [42169]
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No, they don't.
Apr 20, 2022, 2:41 PM
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Disney is disagreeing with public policy. DeSantis is sending a message of "If you disagree with me, I'll make you pay for it". He's doing it right now with legislators in Florida, too.
You think this is what we need running our country? "Oppose me and I'll make you sorry for it"?
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CU Medallion [73569]
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oh, i agree, Disney didnt. MLB and Hollywood have
Apr 20, 2022, 2:47 PM
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NCAA. I know NC went thru it years ago with corporations threatening the state b/c they didnt want men in womens bathrooms.
I will agree Disney didn't threaten anything. I'm guessing its a message to other companies. Stay out of our politics. Its always only one-sided from these companies so they ain't doing it for business reasons.
I would've saved that move for another issue where a company got a little too big for its britches personally.
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All-In [42169]
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Why are you cheering this on?
Apr 20, 2022, 2:49 PM
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Do you not...
A. Realize how stupid of a move this is by DeSantis?
B. Realize how dangerous this is to have a man like him in charge who operates this way?
Why would you support this?
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All-In [27134]
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The political grandstanding of DeSantis and Abbott,
Apr 20, 2022, 2:55 PM
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turning them into little tyrants trying to affect national change from their state seats, disqualifies both from the white house. I prefer my Republicans with a hands-off attitude towards private business, and not be some fascist snowflake who likes to play god with the economy whenever his jimmies get rustled around election time.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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i support the, standing up to these corps
Apr 20, 2022, 2:56 PM
[ in reply to Why are you cheering this on? ] |
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and letting them know to stay out of their states politics.
Not so much the timing of the issue tho.
But you being a liberal, never have to deal with biased media, corporations, colleges, fbi, etc...
Probably the only biased source you ever have to deal with is Fox. wow.
As i remember, you would always defend the irs saying it was made up ######## by the right.
regardless, you'll try to make this a megathread, but i aint bitin
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All-In [27134]
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You sound like a progressive do-gooder.
Apr 20, 2022, 2:58 PM
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Let's punish the businesses with State power who say things that we don't like!
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All-In [42169]
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"Der herp... I'm a small government fiscal conservative!"
Apr 20, 2022, 3:02 PM
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"Now, go get those evil private businesses that disagree with my views, almighty executive figurehead!" -xtiger
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All-In [42169]
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Oh, you do support that?
Apr 20, 2022, 2:59 PM
[ in reply to i support the, standing up to these corps ] |
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So you would cheer on a Dem "standing up" to a conservative business and trying to punish it as retaliation? You're exercising political hackery here.
And when in the sam #### did I ever support the IRS? I've never defended them in my life.
Bruh, don't go digging for gold or I'll remind you of how you blindly supported the Iraq war and now bald-face lie about supporting it.
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Heisman Winner [137947]
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This is hilarious.
Apr 20, 2022, 3:42 PM
[ in reply to i support the, standing up to these corps ] |
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Easily the most hypocritical you've ever been on this board, and that's saying quite a bit. You're walking around with insane levels of paranoia. Everybody's out to get you and your way of life! The FBI...lulz.
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110%er [7128]
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Re: This is hilarious. FBI collusion against Repub not funny
Apr 20, 2022, 11:44 PM
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You probably forgot this ... remember FBI agent Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, along with FBI chief James Comey and all of their Trump / Russia collusion stuff? Mueller's report revealed that the FBI had a big fat NOTHING burger, but yet propagated this B.S. in hopes of creating propaganda that would run Trump off.
FBI biased? FBI out to get Republicans? Refresh your memory (made easy for you ... you're welcome).
https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/406881-lisa-page-bombshell-fbi-couldnt-prove-trump-russia-collusion-before-mueller/
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Lot o points [155916]
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Ok, flip it around
Apr 20, 2022, 2:51 PM
[ in reply to oh, i agree, Disney didnt. MLB and Hollywood have ] |
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Minnesota, being the liberal paradise it is, suddenly decides to unilaterally enact an 80% tax on all profits derived from bed linens and pillows, because they're sick and tired of Mike Lindell (My Pillow is HQ'd in MN). You (and I) would be angered, correct? Same thing here.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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dude didnt make up a new tax
Apr 20, 2022, 2:57 PM
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he is removing a privilege that was probably way overdue to be removed anyway
so not apples to apples.
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Lot o points [155916]
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He's costing them more money because they criticized
Apr 20, 2022, 3:12 PM
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actions he made. It's at least oranges to tangerines.
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110%er [7128]
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Re: Ok, flip it around
Apr 20, 2022, 11:47 PM
[ in reply to Ok, flip it around ] |
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Minnesota could do this (raise taxes on bed linens, etc.). That's MN's prerogative.
My Pillow could then shop for new venues. That's Lindell's prerogative.
Lindell wouldn't even have to breathe hard to find another state that would love to have his business.
Action and Reaction. Free market doing its thing.
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All-In [42169]
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So then you're not a conservative
Apr 21, 2022, 8:05 AM
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And the free market isn't doing its thing.
Anyone who supports the government punishing a business for political beliefs isn't a conservative.
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110%er [7128]
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Re: So then you're not a conservative
Apr 21, 2022, 3:18 PM
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Level playing field equals no special privileges for one business vs. its competitors.
Disney isn't being punished relative to its competitors; it simply has been brought down to a level playing field.
That is the true conservative philosophy.
(You hate it when I keep proving you wrong, but don't worry ... I'm not mad at you.)
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Heisman Winner [137947]
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What does "our politics" mean? Disney is a huge part
Apr 20, 2022, 2:51 PM
[ in reply to oh, i agree, Disney didnt. MLB and Hollywood have ] |
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of Florida's economy (and the ecosystem around it, hotels, restaurants, etc.). Disney is made up of and controlled by, ostensibly, "people". Does Disney not have a voice in Florida politics?
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All-In [42169]
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He's also making the assumption...
Apr 20, 2022, 2:53 PM
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That only the political viewpoints of "conservatives" are valid and thus those who oppose it are fair game to punishment. Or, to somehow send a message to other companies?
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Lot o points [155916]
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My bias might be showing a bit, but I will say that it
Apr 20, 2022, 2:56 PM
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seems like this is a tactic that, in recent decades, has bee far more employed by left-leaning politicians and bureaucrats, so on some level, I get the "taste of their own medicine" cheering, but it's wrong then and it's wrong now, IMHO. I want a govt that has to take it up the rear from the private sector whether they like it or not, in almost every instance.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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yep, which is why i support this(sort of)
Apr 20, 2022, 2:59 PM
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again, wish it was a better situation like what the MLB did, but in general i support this type of thing.
States need to fight back to corporations that threaten them.
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All-In [42169]
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How the hell did Disney threaten them?
Apr 20, 2022, 3:01 PM
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DeSantis is threatening Disney for disagreeing with his policies.
And you want to call yourself a conservative while cheering on the government for passing legislation to punish private businesses for exercising their political views?
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110%er [7128]
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Re: How did Disney deserve permanent special privileges?
Apr 21, 2022, 3:23 PM
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Desantis isn't 'threatening' Disney with anything other than to revoke their special privileges which gave Disney an advantage versus their entertainment oriented competition.
Disney is simply being put back on the level playing field with their competitors.
Is the revocation of unfair favorable treatment to one entity ... to level the playing field as per the true conservative philosophy ... a bad thing?
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All-In [27134]
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How is Disney threatening the State?
Apr 20, 2022, 3:01 PM
[ in reply to yep, which is why i support this(sort of) ] |
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As opposed to saying things and having policies that offend the cultural sensitivities of the current regime in power.
It seems like, as has been said many times here, you want to leverage the power of the State to police what amounts to be nothing more than differences of political opinion.
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110%er [7128]
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Re: How / when did CA businesses threaten the CA?
Apr 21, 2022, 3:42 PM
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It's great to be all worked up about FL State Gov't and their threats to FL private businesses.
But for the philosophically pure, then where's your similar outrage for when California mandated their 'gender self-identity / use any bathroom you please' laws?
Too many lefties on this thread (those who are furious that their political ally in the private (Disney) will lose its special tax privileges) are being hypocritcal. Again, where's the outrage for when California forced private businesses to go along with their 'gender identity / use the women's bathroom at your pleasure' rule?
Crickets.
Businesses in CA are doing what they need to do: GT Fire-trUCK Out of California.
Businesses in FL that don't like having their special tax privileges revoked are free to do the same: Get out of FL (or stay) ... their choice.
https://www.aclusocal.org/en/know-your-rights/restrooms#:~:text=In%20California%2C%20business%20establishments%2C%20non,gender%20identity%20or%20gender%20expression![]() Restrooms In California, business establishments, non-profits, and government agencies that serve the public cannot discriminate based on someone’s gender identity or gender expression.
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All-In [42169]
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110%er [7128]
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Re: What does "our politics" mean? Disney is a huge part
Apr 20, 2022, 11:52 PM
[ in reply to What does "our politics" mean? Disney is a huge part ] |
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True conservative politics strive for a level playing field; let the merits of the businesses determine who wins and loses.
Having special tax districts distorts the economy; special privileges for the 'chosen ones.'
Permanent special tax districts (which seems to be what the leftists suddenly embrace ... go figure) are an even worse distortion.
Never have 'permanent' special tax districts ... anywhere. That's truly conservative and fair.
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All-In [42169]
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Really?
Apr 21, 2022, 7:57 AM
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Then why do so many GOP states offer these types of incentives, such as SC, to boost business?
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110%er [7128]
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Re: Really?
Apr 21, 2022, 10:37 AM
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Blue states do this too ... incentive programs to lure certain businesses to their state. But those incentive programs are not (or darn sure should NOT be) permanent.
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Heisman Winner [137947]
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That's fine, but none of this has been an issue for, what,
Apr 21, 2022, 9:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: What does "our politics" mean? Disney is a huge part ] |
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over half a century of this arrangement between Disney and the state of Florida, and SUDDENLY, in April of 2022, it's a HUGE issue that needs to be corrected! Weird how that happened, yeah?
Oh, and remember how much AOC was ridiculed by the "conservatives" on this board a couple years ago for telling Amazon to screw when they wanted $3B in tax incentives to put a second HQ in Brooklyn or wherever? Turns out, she was just doing the Lord's conservative work, wasn't she?
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All-In [42169]
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Yep, this is a 50-year agreement I believe...
Apr 21, 2022, 9:41 AM
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That pumps lots of money into the Florida economy. This move is purely for revenge and punishment.
Defending it is absurd.
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110%er [7128]
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Re: Yep, this is a 50-year agreement I believe...
Apr 21, 2022, 10:39 AM
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The special tax districts / autonomous zones in FL (i.e., the program which lured Disney to FL) was enacted in 1968. Disney moved to FL in 1971.
2022 - 1971 = how many years?
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All-In [42169]
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Um...
Apr 21, 2022, 1:23 PM
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Disney World opened on Oct. 1, 1971. They are currently in their 50th year of operation there.
Now I have to explain math to you?
On Oct. 1, 2022, that will be 51 years.
Jesus. You're just... not smart.
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110%er [7128]
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Re: Um; you telling me Disney's had 51 yrs of tax privileges
Apr 21, 2022, 3:46 PM
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So you're saying that 51 years is MORE THAN 50 years?
One more request (and I'm grateful that you're here to help a brother out):
Did Disney benefit more by having 51 years of special tax privileges in FL ... or would Disney have rather gotten 5) years of special tax privileges?
Thanks for helping me out!
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All-In [42169]
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Not sure you're ready for the advanced math***
Apr 22, 2022, 8:06 AM
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110%er [7128]
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Re: No, they don't.
Apr 21, 2022, 10:28 AM
[ in reply to No, they don't. ] |
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We already have discriminatory taxes in place at the Federal level in place in which tax incentives for smaller companies go away when the smaller companies grow too big (i.e., reach a 'size' threshold).
We already have discriminatory taxes at the State level (selected states) which had suddenly denied the privilege of selected class of 'mechanical assets' to be operated while on 'public assets.'
Although Desantis' decision to seek the termination of FL's special tax / autonomous zone privileges for Disney (and don't forget ... also 5 other FL companies) undoubtedly has political origins, the fact that Disney's behavior brought embarrassment to Desantis means that Disney played the biggest role in brining this on.
Analogy: The teacher's pet.
For ever, the regular derelict student in the public schools (i.e., kids like me) had witnessed that student that adored the teacher, gave apples and candy to the teacher, and stayed in at recess to clean up the class room for the teacher (i.e., kids like Catahoula) get special privileges. The Catahoula type kids were the teacher's pets; the pets got special treatment from the teacher (and latitude when being graded by the teacher).
But when the teacher's pet started bragging in the classroom that he was indeed the teacher's pet, the teacher got embarrassed and ended the special privileges for the pet. It was unfair that the pet got favorable grades by the teacher, and an over-due correction when the teacher reverted to grading the 'bragger' pet using the same standard as the 'regular' students got graded.
Disney lost its Teacher's Pet privileges, and will soon be on a level playing field with all of the other FL businesses.
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All-In [42169]
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Re: No, they don't.
Apr 21, 2022, 1:24 PM
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For ever, the regular derelict student in the public schools (i.e., kids like me) had witnessed that student that adored the teacher, gave apples and candy to the teacher, and stayed in at recess to clean up the class room for the teacher (i.e., kids like Catahoula) get special privileges. The Catahoula type kids were the teacher's pets; the pets got special treatment from the teacher (and latitude when being graded by the teacher).
But when the teacher's pet started bragging in the classroom that he was indeed the teacher's pet, the teacher got embarrassed and ended the special privileges for the pet. It was unfair that the pet got favorable grades by the teacher, and an over-due correction when the teacher reverted to grading the 'bragger' pet using the same standard as the 'regular' students got graded.
Disney lost its Teacher's Pet privileges, and will soon be on a level playing field with all of the other FL businesses.
This is a dumb analogy that doesn't apply to this situation at all.
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110%er [7128]
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Re: No, they don't.
Apr 21, 2022, 3:49 PM
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You know that the analogy is perfect.
The analogy highlights the essence of why Disney put itself in position to lose its special tax privileges.
But there is great entertainment value in your 'denial' posts!
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Lot o points [155916]
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there's a difference though.
Apr 20, 2022, 2:46 PM
[ in reply to normally i would agree, but ] |
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Disney could put out a new series called "We're going to make your kids trans and there's nothing you can do to stop us", and that's their right (and our right as consumers to decide whether to patronize them).
The govt doesn't get to make arbitrary and capricious actions against an individual or a corporation because someone is speaking against them. It would be no different than someone speaking against the govt on a town corner, and getting a letter in the mail the next day that their home had been seized under imminent domain.
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All-In [42169]
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What if Disney really plays dirty?
Apr 20, 2022, 2:48 PM
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I wonder how much income it brings into the state of Florida? What's to stop them from (drastic, I know, but companies like that will play dirty) completely uprooting and rebuilding elsewhere? Or cutting off access to content in Florida until the people fight back?
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CU Medallion [73569]
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sure, they could do that. Tesla did in Cali***
Apr 20, 2022, 2:50 PM
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110%er [7128]
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Re: What if Disney plays dirty? If not in FL, then where?
Apr 20, 2022, 8:47 PM
[ in reply to What if Disney really plays dirty? ] |
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If Disney chooses to leave FL, then where would they go that's better?
Reminder: Year-round warm climate is a biggie for Disney's global tourist appeal.
TX? Nah, no advantage for Disney to leave FL for TX. RINO Abbott doesn't like Disney. Think what it would be like for Disney if TX gets a series of non-RINO governors?
CA? Already there; no tourist attraction value for Disney getting bigger in CA.
AZ? Disney is already there; needs their other big presence not too close to S.California.
NM? No.
LA? Too many chemical plants / refineries near N.Orleans / B.Rouge for Disney to expand there; access to other parts of LA not good enough for their international business.
MS? No.
AL? No.
Up north? No, Disney really needs the warm weather to properly thrive as a 12 month per year global tourist destination.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: What if Disney plays dirty? If not in FL, then where?
Apr 20, 2022, 10:00 PM
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Disney is not going to leave Florida. If they start that game of chicken and the voters of Florida realize they're about to lose 200,000 jobs the idiot that started this mess and all his minions will be gone.
You're missing the obvious, though, and that's that Disney could easily just hop the border to Georgia.
Again, though, this isn't going to happen. Because most politicians are not stupid enough to declare war on and then play chicken with their state's by-a-mile #1 cash cow. Clearly this is some bold new political strategy from DeSantis...heading into re-election season.
This is typical MAGA GOP BS through and through anyway. Start a vicious culture war over here to distract from the fact that you're violating the state's constitution and illegally gerrymandering - while usurping power that was supposed to belong to the state legislature - over there.
And there's another aspect DeSantis really should have figured in: Trump. Trump's seething with simmering jealousy over DeSantis's rising popularity anyhow. And did I mention DeSantis has a re-election coming up where he really needs Trump to not turn on him, take his football, and go home...to Mar-a-Lago?
What Trump is going to do next is entirely predictable.
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110%er [7128]
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Re: What if Disney plays dirty? If not in FL, then ... GA ?
Apr 20, 2022, 10:52 PM
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Interesting call about going to GA as an all-other-options-gone move if Disney decides to bolt FL.
(?) Atlanta? Nah, too cold in the Nov / Feb period.
(?) Savannah? A remote maybe.
(?) Brunswick? Maybe more feasible than one would think at first glance. Brunswick is close to JAX, the JAX airport (while nothing special) is much better than Savannah's. (And of course Brunswick has St. Simons Island nearby.)
Again, as a 'just gotta GT Heck Out of FL' option, then maybe Brunswick could be made to work. FWIW, Savannah's airport could support some of Disney - Brunswick's traffic.
But to agree with you, leaving FL is the nuclear option for Disney. By itself, the elimination of the special tax district deal won't have Disney leave very soon.
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All-In [40933]
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110%er [7128]
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Re: Disney to leave USA? Some options?
Apr 21, 2022, 10:57 AM
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Oh yeah ... indeed it would be a long hard slog for Disney to move.
(?) Anyone think that Disney would move all the way out of the USA? I could see this happening, but as NC Neal opined, this would be expensive ... maybe too expensive.
If Disney chose to do GT Heck O, then it would be via a number of incremental moves. The first would be to establish a 'base camp' business in their future non-USA home.
Of course, Canada wouldn't work (too cold).
Mexico? Give Disney a set up similar to Cancun? Maybe.
Costa Rica? Arguably the best / most stable of the Central American counties. Maybe.
S.America? Lots of really good (topographical and climate-wise) options, but can't see how that would work in a mega-city such as Sao Paulo; maybe in the 'burbs of Buenos Aires or Santiago; or maybe a nice medium size city such as Montevideo (really nice climate there, too) would be among their 'base camp' candidates.
(*) If Disney were to move out of the USA, then that wouldn't impact their International business too much. But it would hurt a chunk of their legacy USA business (since many families drive to Disney, instead of flying).
(?) Would Disney's 'social leanings' be enough of a disincentive to offset the money that they would bring to Mexico or Costa Rica or a S.American destination?
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110%er [7128]
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Re: there's a difference though.
Apr 21, 2022, 12:03 AM
[ in reply to there's a difference though. ] |
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Was it an unfair distortion of FL's economy in the first place for FL to grant special low tax + autonomy from FL State Gov't laws?
Why does Disney deserve to get special privileges to be exempt from other FL laws (maybe labor, maybe environmental)?
Disney would then get a tax advantage and workplace advantages vs. that of other FL businesses ... some of which compete against Disney for the tourist dollar.
Why is that fair (and why is that conservative)?
Gov't needs to stop picking winners and losers. Eliminating a past mistake is better than allowing that past mistake to remain in perpetuity.
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Lot o points [155916]
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I'm fine with the revocation of their special status
Apr 21, 2022, 9:04 AM
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as part of a normal reevaluation of these types of exceptions. That's absolutely the state's right, and probably very merited.
DeSantis himself hasn't positioned it that way though, he's throwing it out as punitive measure for their political posturing. That's what's putting the big govt authoritarian stink on it that I don't like. The optics suck.
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110%er [7128]
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Re: Bad optics for Desantis now, but fixable before 2024
Apr 21, 2022, 11:11 AM
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Agree with you that the optics look bad.
But for Desantis' bigger political aspirations, there's plenty of time for him to build up a defense against his other likely challengers in the Republican presidential primary.
Desantis could cite the 50 year special tax privileges that played a big part in (1) attracting businesses [including Disney] to FL; (2) building FL's economy; and (3) ending the special privilege for Disney so that ... as conservative thinking goes ... the playing field would be level for Disney vs. Disney's competitors.
DJT / Dr. Oz / Quozzel -or- Tulsi Gabbard (shoot me now) would have to come up with an effective counter-argument for the free-market republican voters (it's not just me, but there are several dozen more of us) as to why 'leveling the [tax] playing field' was bad, and that Desantis made up for FL's past sins by revoking Disney's special [and unfair] tax status.
I think that Desantis could easily defend himself against all of his rivals other than Mr. Q (whose knowledge of football by itself would put Desantis at a distinct social disadvantage)
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All-In [27134]
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The irony as well, from some commentary I've seen, is that
Apr 20, 2022, 2:51 PM
[ in reply to So this might be unpopular with my conservative brethren, ] |
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local governments would have to pick up the tab for social services, and the ability to recoup costs through taxing Disney is limited because of...tax breaks for Disney passed by the FL legislature.
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All-TigerNet [10887]
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All-In [27134]
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Why were the special privileges a non-issue until now?***
Apr 20, 2022, 3:38 PM
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All-TigerNet [10887]
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OK, groomer***
Apr 20, 2022, 3:40 PM
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Heisman Winner [137947]
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Can you imagine being such a mental midget as to believe
Apr 20, 2022, 3:43 PM
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that the entire Democrat party, HALF of this country of 360,000,000 people, is made up of either pedophiles, pedophile groomers, or pedophile sympathizers? Why yes...yes, you can.
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All-In [27134]
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I'd bet good money the GOP is home to far more pedos than
Apr 20, 2022, 3:47 PM
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Democrats. We know for sure that Gaetz likes them young. Roy Moore, too.
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All-In [34592]
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I'll take that bet***
Apr 20, 2022, 3:57 PM
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All-In [27134]
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Never doubt the propensity of the boastfully pious
Apr 20, 2022, 3:59 PM
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for discreet, degenerate activities.
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All-In [34592]
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do you want to bet, pu$$y?***
Apr 20, 2022, 9:36 PM
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All-In [27134]
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What are the terms of determination?***
Apr 21, 2022, 11:16 AM
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110%er [7128]
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Re: Never doubt the propensity of the boastfully pious
Apr 20, 2022, 10:55 PM
[ in reply to Never doubt the propensity of the boastfully pious ] |
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The infamous pedophile priests pandemic (alliteration, anyone?) supports your 'pious / pedophile' association.
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Heisman Winner [137947]
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And which side of the political spectrum do you believe
Apr 21, 2022, 9:27 AM
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Catholics fall on, out of curiosity?
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110%er [7128]
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Re: And which side of the political spectrum do you believe
Apr 21, 2022, 6:23 PM
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Catholics are more typically conservative.
But their spiritual leaders are woke and Pope Francis is behaving like the Anti-Christ.
For decades, far too many of their priests, cardinals, and bishops were engaged in practices which were antithetical to the Church's teachings.
The Catholic 'masses' abhor the behavior of their leaders, but they are tradition-bound to remain as Catholics instead of converting to a protestant sect (protestants are 'the debil').
So, to support your post about the (superficially) pious being among the worst pedophiles, I'll agree with you again.
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All-In [27134]
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All-In [27134]
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Dude, you are worse than the anarchists who go to meetings.***
Apr 20, 2022, 3:45 PM
[ in reply to OK, groomer*** ] |
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110%er [7128]
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Re: So this might be unpopular with my conservative brethren,
Apr 20, 2022, 11:30 PM
[ in reply to So this might be unpopular with my conservative brethren, ] |
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One aspect of conservatism that follows Desantis' move is that all businesses should be treated equally (no special privileges for some 'favored' business).
As an incentive tactic to attract businesses, then a special tax break with a defined sunset date is not an uncommon activity from state governments.
But is it anti-conservative to set everything on a equal footing (tax wise) by eliminating the special tax districts in FL? For goodness sake, they have been in place for > 50 years. Just think about the compounded interest on the 'non-taxed' capital that Disney and the 5 other smaller tax district companies had pocketed?
Nah, these special districts distort the free market, and therefore should always have a sunset provision ... or if not stipulated up front, then a sunset that the state legislature can inact.
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All-In [42169]
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You don't seem to have a firm grasp on conservatism
Apr 21, 2022, 8:13 AM
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And you're being just as ridiculous as X supporting this.
You'll sing a different tune when the Dems do it to a conservative business, and you better believe some of those clowns are looking to do it now with what DeSantis is trying.
It is foolish to support DeSantis's move.
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Lot o points [155916]
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110%er [7128]
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Re: Everything you just said is completely correct, and that's
Apr 21, 2022, 6:27 PM
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I agree with you Mr. Obed. The optics of this Disney thing creates opportunities for his opponents to discredit his governing philosophies.
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All-In [40933]
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I agree. I am not down with this.
Apr 21, 2022, 5:55 AM
[ in reply to So this might be unpopular with my conservative brethren, ] |
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Disney has every right to oppose a bill.
To bring Disney to Florida deals were made to allow them to create their own zoning, and have control over other government type services such as wastewater, fire protection etc.
I see nothing wrong with that.
Now the State wants to repeal it, not on the basis that they are protecting people because those services are not being sufficiently provided, but on the basis that they don't like Disney's politics.
This is a bad precedent. Straight out of the dem handbook of control.
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110%er [7128]
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Re: I agree. I am not down with this.
Apr 21, 2022, 6:40 PM
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It's not the best situation (and the optics for Desantis are 'less than optimal') but regardless of what triggered the action from FL State Gov't to do away with the special tax privileges / special 'autonomous zone' rights, these were temporary rights the entire time.
Disney can choose to leave FL and may threaten to do so ... just as Elon Musk had threatened to move Tesla assembly plants out of CA when being mandated to shut down factories because of state-wide Covid-19 concerns.
Again, although the optics look bad, it isn't as if Fl Gov't is being unfair to Disney. Instead, FL is removing Disney's special privileges.
At its absolute worst, Disney is operating on a level playing field with its entertainment competitors.
Not quite as bad as the horrors that come out of the Democrat's playbook.
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All-In [31896]
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Nope, this is a very good example of people...
Apr 21, 2022, 7:35 AM
[ in reply to So this might be unpopular with my conservative brethren, ] |
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that call themselves "conservative" but really just support an action by or against the government strictly based on the end result and not the underlying principle or legality.
Another example, albeit a different issue, is all of those celebrating the judge over-turning the CDC travel mask mandate because they don't think COVID warrants mask requirements and then also chastising the Biden admin for letting Title 42 end (which is based on COVID / public health needs) because they want the border locked down more.
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All-In [40933]
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I have not seen anybody chastise Biden for letting title 42
Apr 21, 2022, 7:45 AM
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end. Many have pointed out the hypocrisy of allowing unvaccinated unmasked illegals into the country and at the same time "protecting" citizens by federally mandating masks.
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All-In [31896]
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Lot o points [155916]
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With all due respect, you're still missing the crux of the
Apr 21, 2022, 9:20 AM
[ in reply to Nope, this is a very good example of people... ] |
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mask ruling, methinks.
Ignore all the subterfuge about Trump appointing her, the bar ruling her "not qualified", etc.....it's window dressing that isn't germane to the decision. What she judged the case on--the boundaries of authority of a govt bureaucracy---is absolutely fair and was not policy-making disguised as a legal ruling.
As a conservative, one ought to be alarmed at the massive amounts of power that has been doled out in the past 10-20 years to various govt bureaucracies. It's lazy governance by our executive and legislative branches, plain and simple, and has marked a massive expansion of government. The ruling on this was no different than examining whether OSHA has the right to mandate employer vaccination policies, or whether Homeland Security can perform warrantless wiretaps. The judicial branch is all we have left at this point to keep these in check, and suggesting that this was some subversion of proper governance is to cede far too much power to the unelected bureaucrats.
Their ability to enforce a mask mandate hinged on one act from 80 years ago, and came down to one word in that act---whether the mask policy amounted to "sanitation". Airports and airlines were allowing anyone to fly as long as they had a basic covering over their face (oh yeah except when eating or drinking which somehow paused germ transmission)...maybe it was a N95 mask but it could just as easily be a silk-thin useless neck gaiter. It was checking a box and had nothing to do with sanitation.
If you're for the mask policy to be re-implemented, then that is fine. It's the job of Congress to do their freaking jobs and pass a law either requiring the masks in airports/planes until further notice, or explicitly giving the CDC the authority to require masking. It's not hard to do, and the public's opinion of their efforts would be available for immediate review every single election rather than farming out the dirty work to faceless bereaucrats.
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Hall of Famer [21940]
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Agree completely
Apr 21, 2022, 9:54 AM
[ in reply to So this might be unpopular with my conservative brethren, ] |
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it's like watching a horse #### penalty in another game...I often times say if they threw that flag on Clemson I'd be losing my ####### mind right now.
Government doesn't need more power.
Now, I have no idea what is going on w/ Disney, no idea what their special circumstance is, no idea what all the fuss is about in general. So take my opinion on this specific matter with a grain of salt.
Feels like a bunch of political ######## to stir up the ants. I do however think that more government is bad 99 times out of 100.
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Hall of Famer [21940]
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poor man's addendum
Apr 21, 2022, 9:57 AM
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I've hated disney for a very, very, very long time. I doubt it has anything to do with whatever people are mad at them for now, which I still haven't really looked into, and likely won't b/c I don't see how it matters to me in middle TN.
They're a blood sucking oligarchy corporation that has some of my favorite things by the ####### short hairs (college football and now the PGA golf early viewing). They can rot in a fire ant bed while getting ###### for all I care, but I still give em my money....########.
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All-In [42169]
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Oh, so we're cheering for...
Apr 20, 2022, 2:34 PM
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Politicians who take action out of revenge and not sound policy? Seems like a great practice.
I also like the recent story about how the legislature gave DeSantis carte blanche authority to redraw voting districts to drastically change one party's power.
But you "small-government conservatives" are all okay with that, huh? It's okay if it's for "your side," right?
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All-In [27134]
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Populism is not a great look for conservatives.***
Apr 20, 2022, 2:51 PM
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All-In [42169]
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It really isn't...
Apr 20, 2022, 2:54 PM
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It's amazing how many populists actually think they are conservative while supporting these bastardized views.
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All-In [27134]
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In reality, they're closer to AOC than Goldwater.***
Apr 20, 2022, 2:56 PM
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110%er [7128]
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Re: In reality, they're closer to AOC than Goldwater.***
Apr 21, 2022, 12:05 AM
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That's a bit of a stretch, but nevertheless a somewhat funny line.
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Hall of Famer [24061]
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Re: You mess with the bull
Apr 20, 2022, 2:57 PM
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Why does a corporation have this special self governing status? Are there other corps in FL that have this status?
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All-In [27134]
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IDK. But it's probably for better reasons than the carve-out
Apr 20, 2022, 2:59 PM
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DeSantis gave Disney for his unconstitutional social media regulations. Bet he's regretting that one.
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All-In [42169]
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Without looking it up...
Apr 20, 2022, 3:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: You mess with the bull ] |
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Probably to infuse mad Disney money into the economy.
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Hall of Famer [24061]
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Re: Without looking it up...
Apr 20, 2022, 3:13 PM
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I'm guessing this land deal had to be approved by the state Senate and is now been cleared to be revoked by the state Senate. I don't see what the big deal is, except that Disney is a large company. From what I've read, it doesn't look like DeSantis is doing this unilaterally. If you don't like what the state legislature is doing, vote them out. Seems like a state should have power over special land deals with a corporation.
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All-In [27134]
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If this was motivated by a rational, principled decision to
Apr 20, 2022, 3:15 PM
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unify the playing field for Florida businesses and stop picking winners/losers with state incentives that benefit the biggest players, sure no problem.
This is Florida reps, led by DeSantis, posturing ahead of the presidential primaries by acting like a snowflake liberal with way too much power available to him.
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Hall of Famer [24061]
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Re: If this was motivated by a rational, principled decision to
Apr 20, 2022, 3:21 PM
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Maybe the people that voted for them no longer want Disney to have these special privileges. It would be different if they were going after Disney and there was no special deal.
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Lot o points [155916]
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It would be different if DeSantis didn't basically say
Apr 20, 2022, 3:23 PM
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"Oh yeah Disney, you hate my bill? Well suck on this!"
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All-In [27134]
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Going after a business for politically motivated reasons
Apr 20, 2022, 3:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: If this was motivated by a rational, principled decision to ] |
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is bad, regardless of past sweetheart deals. "Conservatives" should not have to expend so much effort rationalizing what used to be a pretty sacrosanct philosophy of the party. But populists are just pious progressives so they're not actually conservative.
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110%er [7128]
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Re: If this was motivated by a rational, principled decision to
Apr 20, 2022, 11:03 PM
[ in reply to If this was motivated by a rational, principled decision to ] |
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It would be an interesting twist if Desantis, after stripping the special tax district status from Disney and the five dwarfs (i.e., the other 5 smaller companies that benefit from FL's special tax district status), then gets an overall corporate state income tax passed.
Then Desantis would re-establish his 'conservative' credentials and ... if the legislature does the math right (of course this doesn't happen anywhere, but play along with me) ... then FL captures some additional tax money; pleases the majority of FL's business community; and scores points with the 'fearful-of-Disney-is-child-predator-haven' voters.
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Hall of Famer [21940]
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I do know
Apr 21, 2022, 9:55 AM
[ in reply to Re: You mess with the bull ] |
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from a buddy who lives in Orlando...that it's impossible to find any Buffalo Trace bourbons anywhere in Central Florida b/c Disney buys up all the allocations.
So eff em
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All-TigerNet [10887]
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Haha, awesome. Equality!***
Apr 20, 2022, 3:36 PM
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Legend [19924]
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Re: You mess with the bull
Apr 20, 2022, 4:25 PM
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Disney thought that "autonomous zone" in Portland was so cool they wanna get in on the take-over trend.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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I'll admit I haven't waded through all the details, but it
Apr 20, 2022, 5:32 PM
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would matter to me the degree of 'specialness' being revoked. From what I know, no one is saying to a company, "We will stand in your way." Seems to be more like, "We're cutting you some very special deals, and you act like this? Deal's off."
No harm, no foul. No? At some point we have to all agree that all these things are either okay or not okay. Its okay for Twitter to ban a sitting president, but it's not okay to revoke a special deal? Its okay to be mad about Twitter, but its not okay to be mad at Florida?
Everyone has to be responsible for their actions. If you depend on Twitter, you get what Twitter says you get. If you take a special table in the bar then do the nasty on the table, you might not get your table. Everybody chill.
Message was edited by: CUintulsa®
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Hall of Famer [24061]
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Re: I'll admit I haven't waded through all the details, but it
Apr 20, 2022, 7:57 PM
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I understand the sentiment, but I think a private company being able to ban someone is different than a state being able to revoke a special status for a corporation.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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I understand. The similarity to me is that in both cases,
Apr 20, 2022, 9:40 PM
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or any similar case, an offended party (A) is expecting someone else (B) to behave in A's definition of 'fair'. We all want fairness, but the reason A is offended is that he was depending on B to behave that way. To me, that's A's problem.
It is fine to work toward fairness. However, everyone sees 'fair' from their perspective. The left didn't have any issue with Twitter's practices. Now they chirp about DeSantis and Disney. Or conversely, the right doesn't have any problem with DeSantis acting in Florida's best interest, but they will gnash teeth over Twitter.
Trump was responsible for his own implosion, not Twitter. Disney is responsible for its own finances, not Florida. Both sides should stop expecting someone else to pay for their platforms, imo.
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Hall of Famer [24061]
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Re: I understand. The similarity to me is that in both cases,
Apr 20, 2022, 9:48 PM
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I hear you. You are thinking about it more philosophically and I'm looking at it more from a legal perspective.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Oh hey, yes, if FB, Twitter and the like are actually,
Apr 20, 2022, 9:53 PM
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by their practices, content creators rather than mere platform providers, and if that places them under different restrictions, heck yeah, "Book 'em Dano". My sense is that this is exactly the case and Congress is stonewalling along partisan lines on this. But yes, I was referring only to the way we react to it. To be honest, was poking at bit at the left for wanting Florida to keep paying for Disney's admittedly political agenda.
Message was edited by: CUintulsa®
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110%er [7128]
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Re: I understand. The similarity to me is that in both cases,
Apr 20, 2022, 11:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: I understand. The similarity to me is that in both cases, ] |
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Not necessarily moral ... but there's a good chance that it is legal if FL had granted its special tax district status for the 6 FL businesses that currently enjoy it without language that prevents the tax district from being changed.
Whether the tax can be raised (perhaps in proportion to tax increases for businesses outside of the special tax district) has a reasonable chance of being true. (IDK, but just guessing.)
Same thing about the 'legal autonomy of self government within the district.'
If the Disney tax district were a federal entity (such as Washington D.C. getting carved out of Maryland and Virginia to be an autonomous zone), then I couldn't see that Desantis could do anything about it. But the Disney + 5 dwarfs special tax zone was created by FL gov't, and can probably be ended by FL gov't without much of a case by Disney to stop it. (Again, IDK ... just guessing.)
But if the dissolution of the 'legal autonomy for self-government' is not contractually stipulated as being in perpetuity, then Disney and the 5 dwarfs had to be aware that this day might come.
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Legend [18023]
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#cancelculture***
Apr 20, 2022, 6:00 PM
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Letterman [257]
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Republicans love cancel culture too. They’ve boycotted
Apr 20, 2022, 6:30 PM
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everything under the sun the last 5 years.
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Hall of Famer [24061]
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Re: Republicans love cancel culture too. They’ve boycotted
Apr 20, 2022, 7:59 PM
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Yep, the Republicans are competing with the Dems now.
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Letterman [257]
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Yep both are pretty insufferable right now.***
Apr 20, 2022, 10:07 PM
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All-In [27134]
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It's the populism on both sides that's doing it.
Apr 20, 2022, 10:15 PM
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Old Guard Republicans have more in common with their old nemesis, hippies, than they do with today's Alt Right or populist-styled conservatives. It's also why liberals hate the progressive wing. There is no hardset principle. It's whatever gets the biggest reaction from the base. Though Greg Abbott is the absolute worst of them right now. On the Right. That guy is downright dangerous. Marge Greene is hands-down the worst as a person (low IQ plus a rotten soul), but she's marginalized herself so much that she's pretty harmless.
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Hall of Famer [24061]
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Re: It's the populism on both sides that's doing it.
Apr 20, 2022, 10:53 PM
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Oddly enough, the most liberal people in the country right now are Reaganesk (I guess) Republicans. At least when it comes to classical liberalism. There is not much that I see that is liberal about the power of the current Democrat party.
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All-In [27134]
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Yep. Mainstream Democrats today are about as liberal as
Apr 21, 2022, 8:32 AM
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Mainstream Republicans are conservative. Leadership of both parties has allowed the intellectual vaccuum, created by an inability of both sides to articulate a consistent platform and philosophy, to be filled by populists.
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110%er [5677]
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Re: You mess with the bull
Apr 20, 2022, 6:55 PM
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He|| yes I support DeSantis. You people of the party of lie-cheat-and-steal don't like it when it happens to you, huh? Well go suck it!
We are sick of your BS. There's nothing illegal about what DeSantis is doing. The state legislature will pass a law, period. Disney's preferred status would probably be illegal anyhow if it were ever challenged in court.
It is a free country. Disney can leave Orlando and move to NYC, or whatever liberal bastion wants them. FL doesn't need their money. In the long run it may be cheaper to get them out anyway. The free market will fill the gap. Universal is ready, you can be sure.
OTOH, if Disney negotiated to sell the Star Wars rights back to someone who has half a brain, I might let them stay.
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All-In [42169]
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Hey, yo...
Apr 20, 2022, 11:13 PM
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All of us here already knew you supported wannabe dictators and authoritarian actions by the government.
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110%er [7128]
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Re: Hey, yo... Why not start your own new thread?
Apr 20, 2022, 11:20 PM
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What does that have to do with this thread? Why not start a new thread?
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All-In [27134]
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There are already too many dedicated to DeSantis.***
Apr 21, 2022, 10:40 AM
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Letterman [257]
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While this is a snowflake move because he can’t handle criticism,
Apr 20, 2022, 6:58 PM
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I’m ok with them revoking it. Seemed like they shouldn’t have the special privilege to begin with (I’m assuming it was to drive tax revenues), if they want to revoke it and deal with whatever consequences come from that, that’s their prerogative.
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All-TigerNet [13113]
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In Summary
Apr 20, 2022, 7:09 PM
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If you support DeSantis on this, you agree that 25 year old, liberal arts majors shouldn’t discuss the cutting off of the #####, and turning it inside out, with your 5 year old son.
If you support Disney, you agree that the above is quite OK.
Anyway, I think they are more clever ways for DeSantis to get back at Disney once he is president.
Let’s just remember all of the State governors that decided which businesses got to survive Covid, and which ones had to close forever. Those weren’t bills passed by the state legislatures, but acts of the governors.
Yet, not a whimper from the TNet hypocrite crew that is all over this issue.
God liberals suck.
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All-In [27134]
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I mean sure.
Apr 20, 2022, 7:39 PM
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If you want to be an idiot about it.
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All-TigerNet [10887]
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Disney = groomers, they made it clear in their own board
Apr 20, 2022, 11:23 PM
[ in reply to In Summary ] |
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meeting. But more than that, nobody should get special privileges from the government, so I'm glad to see Florida remove this. I honestly don't care why.
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All-In [42169]
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Is this your new thing?
Apr 21, 2022, 8:04 AM
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Instead of calling everything you don't like communist, you're now calling them groomers?
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All-In [27134]
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It's easier than thinking too deep about anything.***
Apr 21, 2022, 8:35 AM
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110%er [7128]
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Re: You mess with the bull: DeSantis = consensus builder
Apr 20, 2022, 9:14 PM
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Desantis' move looks like the correct move to get Disney to pay its fair share of FL state taxes (i.e., a Democrat move), while creating a political photo-op as standing up for traditional American values (i.e., a Republican move).
Why isn't Desantis being lauded as a bridge builder / consensus champion? Both Democrats and Republicans get a win.
Oh yeah, and Desantis is not discriminating against Disney. The other (handful) of FL's special tax districts are also being targeted for being sunsetted ... just the same as with Disney.
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All-TigerNet [10887]
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If he was lobbying for a new war to spread the GAE to
Apr 20, 2022, 11:24 PM
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another country, he'd be praised as a Maverick who reaches across the aisle blah blah blah
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All-In [34592]
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Ron DeSantis is so right***
Apr 20, 2022, 9:36 PM
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All-In [42169]
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Look at all the BS spin that's been spun in this thread
Apr 21, 2022, 8:02 AM
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Now all of a sudden DeSantis is a "bridge builder" who is bringing "equality" or that somehow Disney has broken the terms of the deal.
Heh, no. DeSantis is being a petty, vengeful child--a trademark of Trumpism that he embraces--and all y'all know it looks bad (Tulsa, Danny, Tom, et al). XTiger at least knows it's vengeful and likes it because that's how he works. The rest of y'all are just concocting spin to somehow make it look like this action is justified and legitimate.
I'm actually glad this is happening because I cannot wait to see the monster that is Disney absolutely wreck y'all's little Trumpian golden boy.
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All-In [27134]
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Really didn't expect xtiger to come out as the most
Apr 21, 2022, 8:37 AM
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honest/consistent ones of the DeSantinistas, but here we are.
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Walk-On [142]
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Re: You mess with the bull
Apr 21, 2022, 8:14 AM
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I apologize if this has been asked within all the responses, but why isn't the left celebrating the potential of Disney paying their "fair share"? FWIW, I've read very little about this.
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All-In [27134]
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I'm not sure how much the Left really cares about this.
Apr 21, 2022, 8:39 AM
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Republicans are the ones who gave Disney all their handouts, including DeSantis not too long about with his social media bill. Republicans are the ones all hot and bothered by Disney content and not too hot and bothered by the First Amendment implications. And it's conservatives versus populists arguing over wether DeSantis is a culture war hero or a big gov liberal.
Democrats are probably sitting back with popcorn and laughing.
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All-In [42169]
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Disney pumps stupid money into Florida's economy
Apr 21, 2022, 9:14 AM
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Hence the special status.
Disney is also one of the most powerful companies in the world with deep pockets. They're going to bury DeSantis and his cronies.
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All-In [27134]
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Look at all the vibrant culture and attractions Orlando has
Apr 21, 2022, 10:26 AM
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to offer without Disney.
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Hall of Famer [24061]
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Lot o points [155916]
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All-In [42169]
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Re: I think we disagree on the burying part.
Apr 22, 2022, 8:51 AM
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These sumbitches own Star Wars. And that's just a small part of it. They ain't losing.
EDIT: Don't forget Disney owns one of the major networks.
Message was edited by: Catahoula®
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110%er [5677]
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Great move FL!***
Apr 21, 2022, 8:05 PM
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