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Legend [15870]
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You know my opinion on Ken Hatfield has never been very popular
Jan 17, 2018, 3:36 PM
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on Tigernet. But if he had been given more fan support and more support from the administration I believe he would have been more successful at Clemson. When it’s clear you are not welcome even before you arrive that really makes our fans look bad. It should still be an embarrassment to many associated with Clemson.
I hated to see DF leave but part of Danny’s departure was his own doing. After KH was hired , I have heard many rumors of boosters and fans sabotaging KH’s recruiting efforts and I know how many fans felt about him they made it clear at the games. The most embarrassing incident for me as a Clemson Dad and life long Tiger fan was the airplane the flew over the Death Valley during games with a sign that said “ Fire Hatfield “ I always thought Clemson fans were above that kind of stuff but many sunk to a new low during the Hatfield years.
KH did not come into the best situation at Clemson with our 2nd ongoing NCAA investigation in 10 years with DF on the staff during both times Clemson was under NCAA investigation. But I did feel like he came in and made a positive difference at Clemson when it was most needed.
Personally, I think Clemson and many fans owe Kenny Hatfield an apology for the treatment he received while he was our HC and many years after because of the numerous negative comments that have been made and still are being made to this day and Coach Hatfield. Until Dabo won an ACC Championship our last one was won under KH. And KH was the HC when Clemson made its largest comeback in the history of our football program against Virginia.
While at Clemson despite many fans he was 32-13-1 a winning % of .707. For a HC so disliked by many to this day, IMO that is not a bad record over 4 years. We finished ranked in the polls 3 of his 4 years at Clemson.
Now that he is on the College Playoff Committee let’s hope he is a better man (which I believe he will be) than the Clemson fans and administration that treated him like the plaque during his time at Clemson.
Message was edited by: wueagle86®
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CU Medallion [57060]
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Re: You know my opinion on Ken Hatfield has never been very popular
Jan 17, 2018, 3:39 PM
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And KH was the HC when Clemson made its first loss in the history of our football program against Virginia.
Fixed it for you.
"Despite many fans"?? What kind of coach bases his coaching ability, or inability, on what the fans think of him? Geez.
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Oculus Spirit [82035]
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purple pants
Jan 17, 2018, 3:42 PM
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CU Guru [1640]
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KHs Halftime speech...
Jan 17, 2018, 7:36 PM
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"Jiminy crickets fellas... You gotta correct all those bugaboos."
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Legend [15870]
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Re: You know my opinion on Ken Hatfield has never been very popular
Jan 17, 2018, 3:55 PM
[ in reply to Re: You know my opinion on Ken Hatfield has never been very popular ] |
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As Virginia improved we were eventually going to lose to them.
Yes a coach needs the fans behind him because the negative support carries over to the players.
If you feel this way then why attend the games , why give money to IPTAY, or even get involved with any of the sports programs.
Many recruits have come to Clemson because of the awesome fan support we give Dabo and the football program.
Geez!
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CU Medallion [57060]
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Re: You know my opinion on Ken Hatfield has never been very popular
Jan 17, 2018, 4:05 PM
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"If you feel this way then why attend the games , why give money to IPTAY, or even get involved with any of the sports programs."
Because I enjoy going to games, they tend to be entertaining, unlike when KH was here. I remember sitting in the Citrus Bowl in the rain as we got totally embarrassed by Cal. That was not entertaining.
Plus, I can understand how 18-22 year old kids are affected by the fans while out on the field, but a grown man coach not so much.
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Orange Blooded [2939]
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George Welch was a very good coach and he
Jan 17, 2018, 6:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: You know my opinion on Ken Hatfield has never been very popular ] |
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Had a lot of talent at UVA. That loss still might've happened if Ford were coaching us but I doubt it. Danny's ego got the best of him at the time. Also there were other matters outside of the NCAA that led to problems on the team. Guess it was just time but I remember it well. It hurt for a while but I thought Hatfield was a good choice at the time
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Legend [17596]
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UVA had 4-6 players who would have been Clemson starters***
Jan 17, 2018, 6:47 PM
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All-In [27180]
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Re: Wait..."Danny's departure was his own doing"??? ###
Jan 17, 2018, 3:44 PM
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No. Danny's departure was Max Lennon's doing.
Nice attempt at revisionist history, though. I grant you that.
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All-In [44032]
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Our second NCAA investigation in less than 10 years
Jan 17, 2018, 3:52 PM
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and his public feud with the Clemson administration over athletic dorms were absolutely his own doing.
He was a great coach, and did a lot for our football program, but the revisionist history comes from those fans who feel that he did nothing wrong. It’s ridiculous how these fans always have an excuse or rationalization:
-“Everybody cheated then.”
-“Max Lennon didn’t care about football.”
-“Danny knew nothing about the NCAA violations.”
-“Georgia had a football dorm so it was okay for Danny to publicly feud with the administration about it.”
Etc.
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All-In [27180]
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Re: Our second NCAA investigation in less than 10 years
Jan 17, 2018, 3:55 PM
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We both know the 1st investigation had NOTHING to do with Danny...that was all Charlie Pell.
Lennon had it out for Danny and it's no secret. Danny wanted better facilities---like Dabo and TB---but didn't have the backing of the administration. And that's a fact, Jack.
So yeah, count me amongst "those fans" you refer to. Hatfield couldn't carry Danny's jockstrap, as far as I'm concerned.
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110%er [8866]
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Re: Our second NCAA investigation in less than 10 years
Jan 17, 2018, 4:19 PM
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Exactly I was present for one of those “men only meetings” things are never as they seem
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Orange Blooded [4010]
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Re: Our second NCAA investigation in less than 10 years
Jan 17, 2018, 4:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: Our second NCAA investigation in less than 10 years ] |
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From what I remember during that time, Bobby Robinson (AD) self reported violations to the NCAA. Those were, that a recruit had been given a Clemson hat and that Ford had given a player $20 so that player (who couldn't have afforded to otherwise) could go out with the team and celebrate after a Gator Bowl win. Ford reached agreement with the administration on his settlement to leave after negotiations that lasted a few days and it was announced mid-afternoon. Less than 24 hrs. later, there was a press conference announcing Hatfield as the new HC. I believe it was a Tuesday around lunch time, but I'm probably mistaken. That caused a lot of the consternation with Hatfield because of the way that Ford was forced out and he was brought in.
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Hall of Famer [24476]
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When you go around to iptay meetings and complain about
Jan 17, 2018, 3:59 PM
[ in reply to Our second NCAA investigation in less than 10 years ] |
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the president's decisions, you get gone.
Something could have been, should have been, worked out. Two had to decide to not make it work. But yes, he drew the line in the sand.
Besides, all I know is that being where we are now is worth whatever it took to get here. I wouldn't change one decision made between then and now.
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Legend [15870]
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Re: Wait..."Danny's departure was his own doing"??? ###
Jan 17, 2018, 4:03 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wait..."Danny's departure was his own doing"??? ### ] |
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How is it revisionist history when you tell the truth. Danny thought the football program was bigger than the university. You can’t lay it all on Max Lennon who had to focus on Clemson University as a school that puts education first. The football program is just a part of the university it’s not the Big Dog the leads school.
There are many fans that know this to be true. This is Not my attempt at revising past history. It’s you who does not seem to know all of the facts related to DF’s departure from Clemson!
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All-In [27180]
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Re: Wait..."Danny's departure was his own doing"??? ###
Jan 17, 2018, 4:43 PM
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No, it's you who is mistaken. I know first hand what happened because I've spoken at length with one of the parties involved. If you want to kiss Hatfield's ### then go right ahead, be my guest. I didn't say Danny didn't have a part in it--he chose to make a stand and fight it out with Max Lennon. Personally, I agreed with Danny---he knew that to keep Clemson on top we had to keep up with the big boys and upgrade facilities.
History proves he was right. Not until Dabo, did we have a HC that put Clemson athletics facilities on top where they belong.
The academics were always there. I don't buy the argument that one takes away from the other--that's BS and you know it.
Anyway, you're not going to change my opinion and clearly, you're a Hatfield apologist. Good luck with that.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Danny got Danny fired for being an insubordinate prick.
Jan 17, 2018, 4:53 PM
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Vickery Hall is the facility Dabo used to build this program, show the administration it was about the student first, the athlete 2nd and brought together all in taking the program to where it is today.
Clemson was the bane of ACC academics for far too long, it was pathetic watching so many cry a fugging river when Barker launched his campaign to take Clemson toward the Top 20 Public Universities, not for football, but for all the Research monies it would garner a Land Grant Uni.
Heck, the man massaged the numbers just to get Clemson there and position Clemson in a place it could move its athletics forward from a position of strength.
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110%er [8866]
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Re: Wait...
Jan 17, 2018, 4:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wait..."Danny's departure was his own doing"??? ### ] |
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That second investigation was a ploy to get rid of DF and it worked. Clemson fans, IPTAY, Board of Director’s etc wasn’t going to take another investigation. Sometimes it’s just best to leave history where it belongs
Message was edited by: jeancooper®
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Hall of Famer [23112]
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You seem to forget, MANY fans didn't want Dabo.
Jan 17, 2018, 3:46 PM
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Many wanted him gone after the 2010 season. Dabo earned the fan support that Hatfield couldn't earn.
However,KH did come in at a rough time and EVERYONE knew that during Clemson's first loss to Virginia(think that was the game),they go to Frank Howard in the stands and Frank told the Southeast and Tiger Nation how pitiful the team looked.His days were then numbered.
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Letterman [275]
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Re: You seem to forget, MANY fans didn't want Dabo.
Jan 17, 2018, 3:52 PM
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I cant beleive the excuses for hatfield. He sucked. That is all.
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All-In [44032]
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Excellent post, I agree 100%.
Jan 17, 2018, 3:47 PM
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You’re right, it won’t be a popular post on here, but it’s true. Danny Ford, as excellent a coach as he was, is overly romanticized even today for what he accomplished. I realize that some of that is due to how we parted ways with him, but the truth is that both Clemson and Danny made significant mistakes at that time.
The same is true for Hatfield, but in reverse. He is overly blamed for problems that occurred with the football program, when in reality, both he and Clemson were to blame.
I am thankful that Clemson’s fan base has matured and grown since then. That was a bad look in the early 90s.
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All-TigerNet [10824]
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Re: Excellent post, I agree 100%.
Jan 17, 2018, 3:57 PM
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Yeah. I had graduated years before KH came and moved to a different part of the country, so I was not exactly on top of what was going on. But KH came at a tough time. Danny Ford had won a Natty and had many other successful teams. So, KH was walking into a hornets nest. The administration sucked at that time and the Clemson fans were irked over DF being let go. Not exactly a welcoming committee for a new coach. And I'm sure KH probably didn't exactly like it. So, there was probably resentment all around. Which led to lousy recruiting, which led to weaker teams, which led to Tommy West.......you know thew rest.
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Orange Blooded [3839]
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sugar happens***
Jan 17, 2018, 6:56 PM
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110%er [8866]
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Re: Excellent post, I agree 100%.
Jan 17, 2018, 4:30 PM
[ in reply to Excellent post, I agree 100%. ] |
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I can agree 100% with you on that Judge. There was a lot of wrongdoings, workings behind the scenes that hurt DF but mostly Clemson. It fractured our fan base for over a decade. Dabo and others have addressed this well. It was time to heal the wounds from the past and start afresh. I think our Coach today has done just that. He embraced the teams and coaches from the past and move everyone’s attention to the future.
Message was edited by: jeancooper®
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Oculus Spirit [97703]
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Nobody wants to follow Danny Ford at Clemson
Jan 17, 2018, 3:49 PM
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and no one wants to follow Nick Saban at Alabama. And nobody will want to follow Dabo at Clemson. That's why Dabo will not leave Clemson IMO, even for Alabama.
Hatfield was doomed from the start. Who followed Bear Bryant at Alabama? I'm sure he was run out of town as well. Always happens.
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All-TigerNet [10824]
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Re: Nobody wants to follow Danny Ford at Clemson
Jan 17, 2018, 4:00 PM
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Your point is well taken. After Bear Bryant's last Natty in 1979, 'Bama won exactly one more in the next 29 years. BTW, Ray Perkins was the coach after the Bear. So-so, IMO.
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Hall of Famer [24476]
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If you are what your record says you are, then Hatfield was
Jan 17, 2018, 4:04 PM
[ in reply to Nobody wants to follow Danny Ford at Clemson ] |
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a good leader of a program. Made AF what it was, won at Clemson. He was a very good leader, a good man by all accounts.
It is no secret that recruiting got so bad under him that it took Dabo Sweeney to resurrect it. But there are a lot of reasons that happened, not all having to do with Hatfield. That was a sad episode in CU's history.
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110%er [8866]
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Re: If you are what your record says you are, then Hatfield was
Jan 17, 2018, 4:38 PM
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I think he was a grown man and knew exactly what he stepped in. He just happened to be the man that stepped in at a bad time. Someone had to do it and it didn’t end his career.
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Hall of Famer [24476]
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I agree. However, the accounts at the time of our own
Jan 17, 2018, 6:03 PM
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people working against him to shorten his tenue were too numerous to complete discount. If that happened, it was a sad chapter.
On another subject, he will be a fun committe member. I have met him a couple of time, in a setting where we could talk a bit. No way did we know each other, etc, but I was around him enough to know he is not a complicated guy. I am sure he is as smart as anyone, but he is not, lets say, cerebral in his approach to things. His view on things is, "it is what it is", not unlike Ford. In the committee meetings his input will be along the lines of, "That team is better." "Why do you say that?" "Because they have better players and play better."
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Heisman Winner [139930]
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Hopefully Coach KH reads this...
Jan 17, 2018, 4:00 PM
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and he gives Clemson a little love this coming season.
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All-In [28363]
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^^prayers sent^^
Jan 17, 2018, 4:06 PM
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hopefully he has a soft spot -
in his heart
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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According to a story by Thomas O'Toole, 1994...
Jan 17, 2018, 4:05 PM
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Hatfield, cut from different cloth than fan-favorite Ford, never took to the Clemson people, nor they to him. A longtime leader of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Hatfield didn't socialize as did previous Clemson coaches. He recruited a different type of player. He installed the wishbone, which fans perceived as boring.
Booster contributions consequently dropped. After a 5-6 record in 1992, contributions didn't increase from the previous year for the first time in 28 years. Donations shot up after Hatfield left.
Hatfield obviously feels betrayed by Lennon. He was hired to build a program in his own image. But when he didn't win enough games to satisfy boosters, he says Lennon changed the parameters.
"I thought we could do it and do it right, on and off the field-win games and graduate kids," said Hatfield. "(Lennon) just didn't support me all the way through to the fifth year. That was a major disappointment for me. He's the reason I came."
Asked to recall something good from his Clemson years, Hatfield hesitated several seconds, then laughed. "It's bad I can't think of something right away," he said.
He did admit to meeting some good people, so who knows?
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All-In [28363]
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well, there goes cfp
Jan 17, 2018, 4:13 PM
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refs, espn, sec, and now this
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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I've had a lot of experience delivering bad news...***
Jan 17, 2018, 4:17 PM
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110%er [8866]
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Re: I've had a lot of experience delivering bad news...***
Jan 17, 2018, 4:40 PM
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Lmao me too.. 24 yrs at the Coroner’s Office does that
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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I've pulled the plug on markets/business that were...
Jan 17, 2018, 4:44 PM
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on life support, but no one asked/expected me to notify the next of kin.
Oh my.
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All-In [27180]
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Re: According to a story by Thomas O'Toole, 1994...
Jan 17, 2018, 4:54 PM
[ in reply to According to a story by Thomas O'Toole, 1994... ] |
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Aloof....sensitive to criticism.....didn't socialize.....wasn't an ambassador of the Clemson brand....blamed others for his failures.
Glad he's gone. Good riddance.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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He and the Mrs. made their bed, but from all I've heard
Jan 17, 2018, 5:00 PM
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and read, he was hired to clean it up.
It wasn't meant to be, but KH was well aware of the hill he had to climb. Relationships in business deteriorate everyday, Dabo mentions it each time a possible move to Alabama is questioned.
That's why Dabo never says never.
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Hall of Famer [24476]
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Good reminder.***
Jan 17, 2018, 6:06 PM
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All-In [44032]
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The “Clemson brand” when he was hired was not a good one.
Jan 17, 2018, 6:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: According to a story by Thomas O'Toole, 1994... ] |
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He was brought in to repair the image that we had then, which was a “win at all costs” Southern football school where athletics trumped academics. That reputation wasn’t entirely fair, but there was some truth to it. And as they say, perception is reality.
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CU Guru [1614]
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Re: According to a story by Thomas O'Toole, 1994...
Jan 17, 2018, 5:45 PM
[ in reply to According to a story by Thomas O'Toole, 1994... ] |
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Wow the guy won 70% of his games here including the biggest comeback in school history and he can't think of these things when someone asks him to recall a good memory from his time here? No wonder the guy couldn't recruit!
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Legend [17283]
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I taught my children to cuss like sailors during Hatfield’s
Jan 17, 2018, 4:08 PM
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tenure.
OK - Perhaps I was young and overly passionate in my criticism.
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All-In [48078]
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He was destined for failure.*****
Jan 17, 2018, 4:08 PM
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110%er [8866]
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Re: You know my opinion on Ken Hatfield has never been very popular
Jan 17, 2018, 4:14 PM
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I will never feel bad about Hatfield or what happened following. That entire mess was a blight on the administration as much as the athletic department. Hope all have learned the hard way from everything that transpired
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All-TigerNet [10460]
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"plaque"
Jan 17, 2018, 4:23 PM
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Are you sure it wasn't gingivitis?
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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Hatfield had a tough row to hoe, but he couldn't hoe worth a
Jan 17, 2018, 4:31 PM
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####. He had a terrible offensive system, he was a poor ambassador for the University, a horrible recruiter and a bit lazy and aloof with a hint of nastiness.
I was not heartbroken when Danny was let go, but KH never showed any ability to build the program. By his last year, the talent level had plummeted and his recruiting was bad and getting worse. Everyone who kept up with recruiting at that point in time knew we were spiraling down rapidly.
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110%er [8866]
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Re: Hatfield had a tough row to hoe, but he couldn't hoe worth a
Jan 17, 2018, 4:45 PM
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Will never forget one comment he made after a disgusting loss. He said “it was not God’s will that we win this game today.” I am a Christian and I love that the atmosphere at Clemson promotes that, but I can promise you that God gives our athletes the abilities and the coaches abilities but doesn’t really get into the score of the game. If he did he would have tripped that Fla St player with the puntrooskie as I was praying
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110%er [9028]
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I still have a letter that he wrote me in reply. I was
Jan 17, 2018, 4:52 PM
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embarrassed the way coach Hatfield was treated by Clemson fans, especially when they sabotaged his efforts. He was a genuinely good man, and while he was going to be our Mark Richt (8-9-wins/season) have trouble in bowl games, he didn't deserve the treatment he got.
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Walk-On [135]
TigerPulse: 35%
Posts: 235
Joined: 12/14/17
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You owe Danny Ford an apology for besmirching his good name
Jan 17, 2018, 5:56 PM
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you cootlicking, scumsucking troglodyte!!!!
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Associate AD [806]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 748
Joined: 1/8/11
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Nothing against the guy but
Jan 17, 2018, 6:29 PM
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His first two years here were his only successful ones . He had Danny's players those years . The triple option ba ha ha ha ...just sayin .
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CU Guru [1825]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1925
Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: You know my opinion on Ken Hatfield has never been very popular
Jan 17, 2018, 6:28 PM
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Why reopen that wound?
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110%er [8866]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5339
Joined: 11/17/14
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IGNORANCE
Jan 17, 2018, 6:29 PM
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Nm
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Legend [17596]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14146
Joined: 10/24/10
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Respect your opinion but disagree
Jan 17, 2018, 6:45 PM
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No thumbs-down warranted, but I watched Cal-Berkeley beat one of our most talented Clemson teams 33-0 in Tampa. It just kept getting worse from there. Hatfield was a good man who was completely overwhelmed by Clemson and Ford's winning standards. What a terrible fit. Hatfield and academic powerhouse Rice were a perfect fit in the 12 years he went 55-78.
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110%er [8273]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3924
Joined: 9/11/08
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Hatfield ran a squeaky clean program
Jan 17, 2018, 6:56 PM
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We didn’t get the death penalty that the BOT feared would happen with Ford
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