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Hall of Famer [21024]
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What we are seeing now is more than a DJ issue or coaching
Nov 28, 2022, 10:44 AM
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issue.
What is happening right now goes deeper than that.
Misses in recruiting and evaluation are killing us. An outdated offensive scheme with a below-average OC is killing us. An unproven analyst being promoted to DC is killing us. Dabo's "my way or the highway" attitude is killing us.
And if we aren't happy with this season just wait until next year when no changes are made, we lose NFL talent all over the place on defense, and we are stuck with the same coordinators. Not to mention DJ probably comes back and Cade probably hits the portal.
If you think this year is tough to watch wait until next year. It won't be any better because I don't think Dabo is willing to admit he made mistakes and won't make any hard decisions yet.
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Oculus Spirit [79884]
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I think it's both coaching and bad qb play.***
Nov 28, 2022, 10:46 AM
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Freshman [-79]
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It can't be denied about the QB play, but
Nov 28, 2022, 10:54 AM
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what else can we do when we're that constrained at the most important position on the field? Playcalling is never perfect anywhere at any level, bit ours has somehow got 10 wins and despite the major constraints. That's coaching!
Insert a decent QB, and everything changes including helping the defense out.
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All-TigerNet [10787]
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Re: It can't be denied about the QB play, but
Nov 28, 2022, 12:00 PM
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Bingo! The term "Complimentary Football" may be over used but it's true. The Tiger offense has not helped the defense enough too many times this and last season. 3 and outs wear the defense down and doesn't force the opponent's offense to take risks or manage a short clock.
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110%er [7555]
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Re: It can't be denied about the QB play, but
Nov 28, 2022, 8:23 PM
[ in reply to It can't be denied about the QB play, but ] |
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We won 10 games not because of coaching….we won 10 games because we play in the horrible ACC …..we got whipped by average Notre Dame and Coot teams so that pretty much tells us how far our previously elite yearly national playoff contender team has fallen…..we can’t compete with the big boys anymore and that is were we are!
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Commissioner [923]
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Nailed it***
Nov 28, 2022, 10:47 AM
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CU Guru [1370]
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Re: Nailed it***
Nov 28, 2022, 10:52 AM
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Along with Wide Receiver....Elementary School(No Longer U)
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All-TigerNet [10400]
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Hall of Famer [21024]
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Stars out of high school mean absolutely ZILCH
Nov 28, 2022, 10:52 AM
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if you can't develop them into college players.
DJ is a perfect example. Great HS player, but can't adjust to the speed and complexity of college football. We have had a ton of other highly rated recruits that didn't pan out either. Makes you question the staff sometimes.
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Freshman [-79]
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Nope. Proven time and time again, the teams with top-10 talent
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Nov 28, 2022, 10:57 AM
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are the teams winning national championships. Does everyone hit on every player? Of course not, but when you sign a higher number of highly rated kids the probability of finding great players in the mix increases.
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All-TigerNet [10400]
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All-Pro [693]
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This is the class that’s hurting us now
Nov 28, 2022, 11:12 AM
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Especially with the WR’s and DB’s. Our safety recruiting has been awful the last couple years but Ngata and Ladson being bust have really been big blows. Ladson was supposed to be a speed guy with range and Ngata was supposed to be our 50/50 guy like Williams. Ladson couldn’t stay healthy and Ngata is so slow and cannot jump, he is not athletic at all. Ladson you can’t help but surely the lack of jumping and quick twitch from Ngata had to be visible when he was in high school. You replace those two guys with 1 1,000 yard level receiver and things are not as doom and gloom. Who’s fault they are I don’t know but those 2 along with DJ not being to handle pressure is what has us where we are today.
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Freshman [-79]
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Our ACC rookie of the year got burnt
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Nov 28, 2022, 11:17 AM
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4 times on Saturday. The rest of the secondary graded out very well. The DBs scared us against Wake, but they're not the reason we're "only" 10-2. WRs are fine; we need a QB who can consistently get them the ball and give them a chance to shine.
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All-Pro [693]
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He got burnt partly because he’s hurt
Nov 28, 2022, 11:47 AM
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We should have someone by now that is a suitable sub so our freshman all American doesn’t have to play hurt for us to have a chance. Look at the list of recruits and beside Makuba who is a realistic impact player at either safety position. Fred Davis has struggles at corner and is now hurt. Wiggins is good, pride is good but really small, Lukus got burned when he had to play so he hasn’t played since. We have some good DB’s but should have more safety options. We have 1 WR that would see the field between 2015 and 2019 and that is Williams. All the others even Collins would be in the top 2 depth chart for their position. They are all Tristan Thompsons and Deondre Overtons. Capable of making a few great plays but average beyond that. That coupled with a bad QB we have problems.
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Associate AD [833]
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Freshman [-79]
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We run very, very little zone read.
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Nov 28, 2022, 11:19 AM
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And DJ ran our offense up to Trevor's level in 2020. DJs recruiting was spot on.. unfortunately he's digressed immensely.
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All-Pro [693]
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It the pressure he can’t handle it.
Nov 28, 2022, 11:55 AM
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Last year he was the man on day one and cracked. It took him all year to get built back up. This year he was decent until the Syracuse game when there was pressure for the home win record, the ACC Atlantic, and a top 10 team and he cracked. The next game at ND, win that and your almost a locked playoff team and he cracked. Louisville and Miami really had no implications at that point we had the ACC title game slot and we were out of playoff hunt at the time so he did ok. Back to Carolina and home win streak, senior class depending on him, playoff implications back on the table and he cracked. Look at his high school career made it to the state title twice and lost both. He just cannot handle and preform under the pressure.
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Associate AD [833]
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Legend [16472]
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Still seems like a good class to me. Surprised it's rated
Nov 28, 2022, 11:33 AM
[ in reply to Take a look at the 2020 class ] |
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2nd with two years of hindsight.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Your nonstop efforts are impressive
Nov 28, 2022, 10:51 AM
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Hall of Famer [21024]
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For posting facts? Ok. You keep enjoying the product
Nov 28, 2022, 10:54 AM
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on the field if you choose to, but I won't. Sports forums are meant to be places for discussion, not always pumping sunshine. But you do you.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: For posting facts? Ok. You keep enjoying the product
Nov 28, 2022, 10:59 AM
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Hall of Famer [21024]
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Wrong. But the glaring deficiencies this team has
Nov 28, 2022, 11:03 AM
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and the complete denial by the coaching staff makes it hard to watch. We have talent ALL OVER THE PLACE and they aren't being developed or utilized the way they should be. Let's see if you are still so positive once we lose to UNC and whoever we see in the bowl game.
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Freshman [-79]
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You're exaggerating everything.
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Nov 28, 2022, 11:07 AM
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He's right. We apparently had a big miss at the most important position on the field, and it's affecting every other aspect of the team.
You're acting like we're 2-10 instead of 10-2. In reality, it's amazing we milked 10 wins (and counting) out of such constrained QB play.
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Hall of Famer [21024]
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I'll agree with that.
Nov 28, 2022, 11:08 AM
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.
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All-In [43979]
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You just seem happy to be here.
Nov 28, 2022, 11:04 AM
[ in reply to Re: For posting facts? Ok. You keep enjoying the product ] |
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How will you feel if we only win 8 or 9 games next year?
How will you feel if our recruiting suffers?
Will you just cling to our elite performances from several years ago, and tell yourself that things used to be worse in the 70s and 90s?
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Freshman [-79]
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Weak troll job.
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Nov 28, 2022, 11:09 AM
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How will you feel when you're husband doesn't make the tournament again?
Mayflower moving. That's who I recommend.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Legend [16212]
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Judge you have been so colossally wrong in your coaching
Nov 28, 2022, 11:53 AM
[ in reply to You just seem happy to be here. ] |
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and program assessments to date across all sports that it's borderline criminal. You are probably wetting yourself with glee throwing out lines like that in your hopes that they could come true. Your disdain for our football program and its legion of followers, because of your feeling that support there comes at the expense of support for basketball, is sad and obvious. You thrive on struggles in football like no other, save for our feathered in-state miscreants.
I'm terribly sorry that Brownell has turned out to be such a bust to date. We've experienced a lost decade in basketball over a period where more positive press and limelight followed Clemson like no other. The football program is light years ahead of where we were in 2008 when Dabo took over, and the foundation that is in place remains one of the best in the game. Basketball on the other hand has been on a slow downward spiral since Brad came on board, with what is shaping up to be another lackluster performance ahead in Year 13.
So hate away, Troll. Like the classic Russian playbook goes - if you can't improve within, do everything you can to chip away at those whom you compare to in order to try and bring them down to your level. In that regard, you are a real pro.
Go Tigers.
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Freshman [-79]
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Opinions aren't always facts.
Nov 28, 2022, 11:01 AM
[ in reply to For posting facts? Ok. You keep enjoying the product ] |
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They're just.. opinions. Personally I think your opinions are mostly inaccurate and off-base.
It's a definite truth there are some people working too hard to craft negativity.
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Legend [16212]
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You're not posting facts. You are ranting on about your
Nov 28, 2022, 11:05 AM
[ in reply to For posting facts? Ok. You keep enjoying the product ] |
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perception of things, somewhat incessantly.
It's okay to be scared and panicky, I guess, if that's what suits you. You do you, right?
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Hall of Famer [21024]
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To be fair, my perception of things is the same as
Nov 28, 2022, 11:08 AM
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most any other Clemson fan that knows enough about the game to see what is working and what isn't.
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Freshman [-79]
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No, not really.
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Nov 28, 2022, 11:13 AM
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And to those that are panicked like you, well, this thread has some points they should heed.
What's not working is the performance of the most critical position on the field. Everything else, I assume you mean only receivers though, follows that.
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Freshman [-79]
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Nope. Put a Trevor, Deshaun, or heck Rattler in as our QB,
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Nov 28, 2022, 10:51 AM
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and we're right where you wanna be.
As it is, we lost 2 games. 2. Certainly Saturday was on the QB, almost entirely.
No coaching changes will be made, nor is there any reason to suggest they should.
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Hall of Famer [21024]
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I agree a good QB can hide a lot of issues
Nov 28, 2022, 10:55 AM
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and win games almost by themselves, but Clemson's issues are deeper than just the QB debacle.
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Freshman [-79]
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You're still exaggerating about your perceived deep "issues"***
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Nov 28, 2022, 11:21 AM
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Hall of Famer [21024]
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Maybe so, and hopefully I am wrong
Nov 28, 2022, 11:25 AM
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but this has been a steady decline since the 2019 LSU game. This isn't just this season or last that is starting to show some cracks in the armor so to speak. I hope I'm wrong.
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Freshman [-79]
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Hasn't been a "steady decline" since LSU.
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Nov 28, 2022, 11:33 AM
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The season after the natty game we had the most productive passing game in Clemson history. If you want to gnash teeth about going from #2 in 2019 to #4 in 2020, then have it, but the "decline" started when DJ fell apart against UGA. And no, we haven't continued on a downward slope either. Last year we adjusted and IMPROVED from 4-3 and unranked to 10-3 and ranked #14.
This year DJ has gotten better and showed it most of the year. He's unfortunately regressed, especially Saturday, but overall we can still finish better than we did last year, i.e., not a decline.
But then again, I guess you've already resigned yourself to losing the ACCCG and bowl game, so I guess you aren't with me on this.
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Hall of Famer [21545]
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Freshman [-79]
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Completely serious.***
Nov 28, 2022, 11:22 AM
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Hall of Famer [21024]
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So you honestly believe that Streeter, Grisham, etc
Nov 28, 2022, 11:26 AM
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have done a good job and should have no fear of being replaced? Wow.
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Freshman [-79]
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Yes. Already explained this numerous times.
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Nov 28, 2022, 11:44 AM
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Insert a good QB and the entire program is elevated, even including the defense.
WRs can't make plays when the QB isn't seeing them open or is most often throwing inaccurately when he dies find them. Streeter has gotten water out of a stone in order to get us to 10 wins and counting.
The playbook is constrained because DJ can consistently execute only so much. If Streeter had a good/great/elite QB, it opens EVERYTHING up.
Grisham was the WR coach for the most productive receiving season in program history. You know, the one where he turned Cornell Powell into Jerry Rice, and Amari also more than doubled-up his receptions to parlay the season into a high draft pick. The difference was the QB delivering the ball.
Again, the root cause is perfectly clear. The elephant in the room. We can't fix points B and C until we fix point A.
Who else ("etc") are you wanting to fire?
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Hall of Famer [21545]
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Freshman [-79]
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I used facts to explain, all over the place.
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Nov 28, 2022, 8:11 PM
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You can't just say, "you don't have a clue", and expect that to be considered a rebuttal. Please use my statements and form an objective counterpoint, or just don't bother at all. Deal?
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Orange Blooded [3620]
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Re: What we are seeing now is more than a DJ issue or coaching
Nov 28, 2022, 10:52 AM
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Geez, I hope and pray you’re wrong. To move forward we need to move on from what we’ve seen the past two years.
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All-In [27164]
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Re: What we are seeing now is more than a DJ issue or coaching
Nov 28, 2022, 10:52 AM
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I noticed the decline in the production of the skill positions start when Jeff Scott left........and I don't think that's a coincidence.
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Freshman [-79]
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Wrong.
Nov 28, 2022, 11:25 AM
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2020 was the most productive receiving season in Clemson history, and that was without Tee Higgins.
The "decline" CLEARLY started the beginning of the DJ era. You need a good QB to feed the receivers on time and accurately. We're not getting that very often.
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All-In [27164]
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Re: Wrong.
Nov 28, 2022, 11:33 AM
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No, you're wrong. These are FACTS:
2019: 4,325 receiving yards
2020: 4,182 receiving yards
2021: 2,485 receiving yards
2022: 2,610 receiving yards (not counting ACC CG, bowl game)
Source: https://www.footballdb.com/college-football/teams/fbs/clemson/stats
Don't shoot from the hip and make things up if you can't back them up.
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All-Pro [672]
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Re: Wrong.
Nov 28, 2022, 8:24 PM
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Lol we played 3 more games in 2019 than 2020. 15 games in 19, 12 in 20 due to covid. You want me to do the math for you or do you think you can handle it from here?
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All-In [43979]
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Yep, 100%.
Nov 28, 2022, 11:02 AM
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Orange Blooded [2100]
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Re: What we are seeing now is more than a DJ issue or coaching
Nov 28, 2022, 11:11 AM
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Clemson does not have a P5 coach on it's staff. So, how can we expect them to evaluate players if they can't coach them up or develop them. Dabo and his arrogant demeanor has caught up. Bad coaching promotions, free scholarships for friend and coaches kids that would not sniff a P5 offer from another school. And let's not forget about his love fest with DJ5STARBUST. Now, TD away to all you sunshine pumpers.
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Head Coach [758]
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Re: What we are seeing now is more than a DJ issue or coaching
Nov 28, 2022, 11:25 AM
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Not really...it's DJ & recognition and control by the coaches of a situation when someone sold us a bill of goods on DJ...last year we blamed the OL when DJ consistently had 4-6 seconds to get the pass off...this year with even more time it's WR's dropping the ball...you don't throw a crossing pattern at 10 yds with a 65mph fastball that's too high or too low or just plain bad! DJ has no touch or understanding of what he should do...that's why he stands there so long sometimes! As the announcers said the other night (I hate to quote ABC, ESPN etc.) but he's not accurate, can't read defenses, misses wide open receivers but is a great kid and ran his a** off...we already have 2-3 great running backs! Dabo just refuses to believe that he picked a lemon off the orange tree! Don't think Cade will enter the portal...we'll just have to see!
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All-In [31187]
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Re: What we are seeing now is more than a DJ issue or coaching
Nov 28, 2022, 11:37 AM
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Next year is shaping up to be a rough one in my opinion. Was able to keep a lot of DL talent for this year because I’m guessing they thought they may have had enough to make a deep run.
Replacing Potter will not be easy as well.
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110%er [7555]
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Re: What we are seeing now is more than a DJ issue or coaching
Nov 28, 2022, 8:18 PM
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You are absolutely correct my friend. Great post!
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