Where has Tobias27772 been because we need his take on this.
Virginia moving to eliminate all accelerated math courses before 11th grade as part of equity-focused plan
There are two links below. One from Fox and the source. They seem consistent, but on the source site I do not see where they offer calculus in the advance path as the Fox article says. I see pre-calculus, but no calculus.
This is incredibly fcking stupid. As usual, and I am 100% serious here, this will do exactly the opposite of what the dumba$$ woke liberals running the show are trying to do (or at least what they say they are trying to do).
The result will be white & Asian flight from the public school system. The smart kids will be gone. The remaining kids in the schools will suffer greatly. Discipline, what’s left of it, will regress. Positive peer pressure with people doing homework, answering questions in class, and being responsible will be significantly reduced or eliminated. Everyone gets dumbed down in the public schools and experiences a worse overall environment.
My kids had Calculus 3 in high school - that's CALC III! And these VA people are suggesting pre-calc or calc I is good enough? All three of my kids scored 5s on both calculus AP tests and exempted 8 credit hours in college. It’s a huge benefit to those that can do it. As a result the oldest two were able to get a Master’s degree in one extra year because they took grad courses while still an undergrad (youngest still an undergrad).
This is really outrageous. So glad my kids are through the school system because in NC they will probably do the same thing. Most of the school boards are liberals.
The Virginia Department of Education (VDOE) is moving to eliminate all accelerated math options prior to 11th grade, effectively keeping higher-achieving students from advancing as they usually would in the school system.
Re: If you wanted to back door resegregation of schools,
Apr 22, 2021, 10:31 PM
Convince people they can't rise above a certain level because a system doesn't like the color of their skin. A Grand Wizard of the KKK couldn't have written it any better.
I'd have to read it more thoroughly, but if the accusation
Apr 22, 2021, 10:31 PM
is true, one thing I am confident in is that no one who devised or voted in favor of such a program would look their son or daughter in the eyes and tell them that although they could be challenged and advance further in mathematics, it's better if they just stay in lock-step. No one would look their spouse in the eye and say that they are glad they did this for their child.
Re: I'd have to read it more thoroughly, but if the accusation
Apr 23, 2021, 7:41 AM
Agree. There's probably another reference out there that has summarized the issue. As much as I love FoxNews for saying what the other guy won't, I don't trust them 100% by any stretch.
The Wake County School Board has inched up on a similar thing. Their goal: 95% of kids test at grade level, or something to that effect. That's horrible when you compare it to goals of other, higher performing school districts. It says nothing about, for example, having the cream of the crop of students come from Wake County. They could care less about the high performers and ensuring they continue to get challenged.
They just can't see that in the end, this type of policy provides the lower learners no benefit, while stripping the high performers out of the system. Teachers will hate it.
The result will be white & Asian flight from the public school system. The smart kids will be gone.
So only the white kids and Asian kids are the smart ones? Wow. Explain that.
I need you and all the other brain trusts in this thread to explain to me what this has to do with race. Because the article doesn't discuss it. Yes, I know Fox makes the assumption it does and cites an irrelevant former Trump official, but find me something from the actual people making the decision.
Here, I pulled a few gems from the comments section:
"The dumbing down of America by the Democrat. They don't want Whites and Asiens to supersede Blacks and Latinos!"
"Still no plan though to include a representative amount of white children into school sports and later into sports "jobs" using the same logic?
Why no skin color quotas in sports/sports jobs? Isn't it racist not to?"
"Ebonic math" would have allowed us to go to the moon by the year 2869."
Notice how blatant democrats' anti-black racism is: they right there declared they think most black Americans are too stupid to take any more advanced math, so they eliminate advanced math "for equity".
NCAA rules state that all 85% of Athletic scholarships should go to blacks? and i thought blacks were only 13% of the population? doesn't that leave a lot of great athletes working farms out west?
What's funny is that you and all the people making those comments would swear up and down that somehow you aren't racist.
You see, your problem is you can't deal with facts. Yes, indeed white and Asian kids are FAR better at math than others. You have been taught by your echo chamber that facts that don't support your narrative = racism. That's bullchit dude. This type of irrational thinking is a large part of what is wrong - if you can't see the problem you can't fix it.
Below is a figure put out by the VA schools in the posted link – if you can read a bar chart you can see what I wrote is represented by this chart. But, seriously, if you just don’t know as a matter of general knowledge that whites and Asians are better at math, then you are out of touch. Ever been around a university? Ever seen who TAs are in college? Ever spent any time on campus at an elite university, say like MIT, like I have? If you would have done any of these things and had any situational awareness whatsoever, you would notice an abundance of Asians. This is common knowledge – you are out of touch. And, don’t say I’m racist for noticing Asians are Asians for God’s sake…
This has everything to do with race. Are you really that dumb or just playing dumb on TV?
More generally, it’s about politics, but what are politics today? It’s all about race, right? If I have to argue that, you are dumber than your avatar looks. In NC and other states I have lived in, Liberals run school boards and most local political scenes are dominated by libs. This is why big cities are chit – liberals implementing dumba$$ policies. But I digress.
I have the balls and brains to be able to state facts knowing that, in fact, I am not racist. You see, it is all about integrity, fortitude, and having a set of morals that are strong and unwavering. Liberals generally do not have these things. That’s why you and them are sooooo afraid of saying a statistic/fact that might allow someone to call you racist. You have no backbone to stand up to fools, like yourself, who want to label you. You want to label me to make yourself feel better – to virtue signal or whatever. That’s your problem. The other problem most of your type has is you don’t have enough brains to be able to defend yourself against “you are a racist” chants. Just like I did here – you think you “caught” me being a racist. No, I caught you being ignorant.
I'm not denying the score statistics. What I'm questioning is WHY you think it's that way. You and the clowns in that Fox thread seem to insinuate that whites and Asians are naturally born better at these skills. One person suggests that blacks are better at sports and thus efforts should be made to get more whites playing time.
So, I don't deny that statistically, whites and Asians score higher on math. I ask you again, why do you think that is?
That's where your answer will shed light on your racial views.
Statistically black players dominate the NBA. Explain why that is. Not what the stats are, but why they are. Let's shed some light on your racial views.
And, just to clarify...whites and Asians SCORE better at math which is what I mean by "are better at math."
Surely, you are not reading into this that I am suggesting whties and Asians are inherently predisposed to be better, genetically or whatever, than blacks at math?
The fact that blacks CAN and SHOULD be taking these courses is one reason removing higher level courses is in fact racist. It is removing the possibility for blacks, hispanics, anyone to take these higher level courses which ANYONE can do if they put their mind to it.
If you are thinking along the former lines, the echo chamber has permanently messed up your head.
...whites and Asians SCORE better at math which is what I mean by "are better at math.
Surely, you are not reading into this that I am suggesting whties and Asians are inherently predisposed to be better, genetically or whatever, than blacks at math?
So then exactly why do you think they are better at math?
Apr 23, 2021, 10:31 AM
[ in reply to Re: Pssst... ]
Maybe white kids and Asian kids are taught by their parents that math is important. Maybe they have a father in the home that will provide the discipline that is needed to study.
That's what I hoped he was getting at, and hoped he would be the one to take that bait. So, if that's what he means, then...
-Chem is admitting that at the current state, private schools are inferior because there isn't the same demand now. -Of course, what he and Tom don't get is that if private school demand goes up, the price will go up, thus likely making it even more unaffordable for most families. -Chem also seems to believe that private schools are somehow bastions of conservative thought, and while he decries "liberal indoctrination," he seems perfectly fine with applying the same indoctrination for beliefs he supports.
Or in a shorter version, he made a pretty dumb post. A self own, if you will.
I guess I'm dumb too. The point was people will turn to
Apr 23, 2021, 10:18 AM
alternatives if you "dumb down" public school - which is what VA is doing. Private schools aren't necessarily inferior - they just aren't worth the extra cost. But some people will re-evaluate the cost if it means their kid can get a definitively better education.
(The cost for private schools won't necessarily go up if the demand for them increases the number of private schools.)
I think for one, everyone should pump the brakes on the VA thing. I don't believe it's been finalized.
Generally, on the whole, private schools are either on par or under performing compared to public schools on the whole. It varies from region to region, though.
The primary reason people send their children to private school generally isn't the educational level offered. Sure, could that change with something like VA? It could. But the demand likely for more private schools isn't going to go up; in fact, some families may find it cheaper to just move than to shell out private school tuition. Or there may be magnet/charter options.
If the demand for private schools goes up while increasing the number of them, prices will still rise. College costs prove this.
You saw a spike this year due to COVID with private enrollment, but even then the demand wasn't sufficient enough to warrant more of them opening.
Dunno about your area, but couple new ones opened here
Apr 26, 2021, 8:31 AM
and many of the existing ones expanded, with my kids' high school expanding to include a middle school offering. Enrollment and the wait list was off the charts.
Last year speaks to the point being made, in that if public schools make moves that pissss off the people who have options, they'll do what they have to do to send their kids elsewhere, leaving the public schools with a higher percentage of kids who don't have options. It's counterproductive to their stated goal of a healthy racial (and other demographics) blend of students.
-Chem is admitting that at the current state, private schools are inferior because there isn't the same demand now.
In no way does Chem "admit" such a thing. A Mercedes isn't "inferior" to a Ford just because I won't pay the extra for it...and if Fords' tires started randomly falling off on the highway, there would suddenly be more demand to pay the premium for a better product.
-Of course, what he and Tom don't get is that if private school demand goes up, the price will go up, thus likely making it even more unaffordable for most families.
I mean, this isn't helping with the "doesn't understand business" stuff. As they are clearly indicating, lower-quality public schools will increase demand for private schools, and more private schools will open to address the demand. Prices only go up if we hold the capacity of private schools steady.
-Chem also seems to believe that private schools are somehow bastions of conservative thought, and while he decries "liberal indoctrination," he seems perfectly fine with applying the same indoctrination for beliefs he supports.
You don't have to find a school that is a bastion of conservative thought...just one that doesn't go off the deep end on "liberal indoctrination", or dumb down the entire curriculum in the name of equality. I would also argue, as a parent, that I have no issue with my children getting a broad exposure of thoughts, but if they ARE going to be "indoctrinated", I darned sure want it to be with conservative thought...and absolutely don't want a situation where they are told such beliefs are wrong or evil.
I'm an ideological pitbull, yo. I think that's what you said I was. Either way, I love it.
In no way does Chem "admit" such a thing. A Mercedes isn't "inferior" to a Ford just because I won't pay the extra for it...and if Fords' tires started randomly falling off on the highway, there would suddenly be more demand to pay the premium for a better product.
I know he doesn't outright admit it, but that's the takeaway: the demand for private schools is lower now but will suddenly jump if public school lowers quality. Thus, the insinuation is that currently public school quality isn't low enough to create such a demand in its current state.
I mean, this isn't helping with the "doesn't understand business" stuff. As they are clearly indicating, lower-quality public schools will increase demand for private schools, and more private schools will open to address the demand. Prices only go up if we hold the capacity of private schools steady.
That's not how the supply/demand thing works.
You don't have to find a school that is a bastion of conservative thought...just one that doesn't go off the deep end on "liberal indoctrination", or dumb down the entire curriculum in the name of equality. I would also argue, as a parent, that I have no issue with my children getting a broad exposure of thoughts, but if they ARE going to be "indoctrinated", I darned sure want it to be with conservative thought...and absolutely don't want a situation where they are told such beliefs are wrong or evil.
Just, briefly, the public school system isn't engaging in liberal indoctrination. That's an urban legend. The entire #### thing nationwide is run and operated by a wide collection of Dems and Pubs, liberals and conservatives. That "indoctrination" myth is actually indoctrination of the public by talking head right wingers like your Rush, your Hannity, etc.
Okay, now I have to know...how does the supply/demand thing work?
Just, briefly, the public school system isn't engaging in liberal indoctrination. That's an urban legend. The entire #### thing nationwide is run and operated by a wide collection of Dems and Pubs, liberals and conservatives. That "indoctrination" myth is actually indoctrination of the public by talking head right wingers like your Rush, your Hannity, etc.
Obviously...and again...we won't see eye-to-eye on this. But it doesn't matter. If people don't like the curriculum for their kids, they'll be more inclined to pay to have their kids educated elsewhere.
-We know price will go up if demand increases unless the supply surpasses the demand. So, what you're suggesting is the prices won't go up if enough private schools open to surpass demand. But at the moment, they already don't do that. Private schools know they have to keep supply lower to justify price. The issue in the school realm is that artificial demand with artificial low supply can be created to raise prices.
Again, look to the current issue with universities now and the rising tuition costs.
-If you have evidence that the entire public school system is hell bent on liberal indoctrination, I'm all ears. It seems pretty silly to claim that school boards and state governments--which are mixed in political ideology across the board--are somehow all in on this indoctrination.
As for paying to have their kids educated elsewhere, again, the primary reasons people send their kids to private schools are not generally for educational quality. There are other factors at play. That's not to say it won't change given a situation like VA. But it's doubtful.
Even if parents want to flock to private schools given a situation like VA, only a few can afford that tuition. We're talking, in some cases, college-level tuition--and that's before private schools could raise the price to meet that demand. Most Americans can't afford that.
And I'm assuming you would not trust a McPrivate School that suddenly opened up to meet this influx of demand, right?
So, I can't claim public schools have generally incorporated a number of "left leaning" curriculum because school boards and state governments are a mix of political ideology, but you can argue that there is a Cabal that sets the number of private schools so that that they can collude on their tuition?
But as always, agree to disagree. My position is that an increase in demand for private schools would result in more private schools, but I guess I may not understand Econ as well as you do.
You gotta stop with the "we're just gonna disagree" cheap way out after making pretty dubious claims. For one, I never claimed there was a "cabal that sets the number of private schools". Private schools, acting alone, already manufacture low supply and high demand to justify prices. It's pretty simple. Just limit the number of spots. If there is some grand exodus from public schools, it's unlikely there will be a sharp rise in private schools opening. And for those that do suddenly open, you'll be #### sure guaranteed they'll be terrible.
And yes, I challenge you to prove that the masses of public schools--which all operate separately within their own districts--somehow incorporated a bunch of "left leaning" curriculum. And please, state in which subjects.
Because this is an outrageous claim that demands proof.
"Agree to disagree" is a completely valid ending to
Apr 26, 2021, 9:18 AM
a discussion. You and I both know that neither one of us is going to convince the other on these points, so I enjoy a little back-and-forth on the topic...flesh out my thoughts, hear some contradicting thoughts...but ultimately we both are going to believe what we believe. Or, possibly, one of us could convince the other, but it would take a monumental effort that I doubt either one of us has the time for or interest in. So, good talk...agree to disagree. It's not cheap and it diminishes neither my arguments nor yours.
Like your view on market forces and the response of supply. You've said your piece, I've said mine. Unless it happens (say, an additional 15% of people decide to leave public education and send their children to private school) and we see the result, we're both just offering our predictions. I have no doubt that I have the laws of economics on my side, but that doesn't make you wrong...there are all sorts of variables that bend and influence the response on the market, and the market may not be able to respond to a significant increase in demand with more supply. I think it will, you think it won't...agree to disagree.
Same thing on the "left leaning" curriculum in public schools. Challenge not accepted. I've been around long enough and I am familiar with your MO when you really want to win an argument, having been on the other side of many a "Quality of Journalism" discussion with you. I will never be able to meet your criteria. And again...that's fine. What I will do is raise the occasional story on such a topic for discussion. To me, the ongoing volume of such is pretty clear evidence, but I know how these discussions go, and I know I lack the time, energy or mental fortitude to convince you of these things. Or maybe I'm just wrong.
Re: "Agree to disagree" is a completely valid ending to
Apr 26, 2021, 9:46 AM
Like your view on market forces and the response of supply. You've said your piece, I've said mine. Unless it happens (say, an additional 15% of people decide to leave public education and send their children to private school) and we see the result, we're both just offering our predictions.
Very true.
Same thing on the "left leaning" curriculum in public schools. Challenge not accepted. I've been around long enough and I am familiar with your MO when you really want to win an argument, having been on the other side of many a "Quality of Journalism" discussion with you. I will never be able to meet your criteria. And again...that's fine. What I will do is raise the occasional story on such a topic for discussion. To me, the ongoing volume of such is pretty clear evidence, but I know how these discussions go, and I know I lack the time, energy or mental fortitude to convince you of these things. Or maybe I'm just wrong.
I mean, if by "MO" you mean requesting actual data and evidence to support claims, then yes, that's my MO. Good data will meet my criteria.
People have made this "left leaning" indoctrination claim for decades. And yet... so many public school products come out well entrenched in conservative ideology and beliefs.
If the public school system has a goal of brainwashing people into leaning left, they're doing a really ###### job of it.
Oddly enough, many of the same people who argue students shouldn't have the same First Amendment rights in schools so they can express themselves on social, political, or religious issues also claim the schools are telling them what to believe.
What is it really? Some parents are just scared that their own indoctrination attempts of their children might get derailed when their kids are introduced to more information and ideas.
that would require teachers to give no less than a 70 (back when 70 was the minimum to pass) for all assignments.
Teachers revolted and threatened to quit.
Policy never passed.
My point is, idiots come up with stupid stuff all the time for education that never passes. And since everybody was a student at some point they naturally think they are an expert in education.
I believe in Virginny. Virginny has a made-a my fortune.
Apr 26, 2021, 8:39 AM
But ######, it is now OVERRUN by libs in the gummint. I live in the only red section of the state, and we have more in common with Piedmont, NC than we do the rest of this "Commonwealth" (won't be no wealth left at this rate).
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