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WOULD WELCOME ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ASPECT OF THE URBAN MYERS
Aug 4, 2018, 11:41 AM
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saga. Yesterday, Urban Myers 'set the record straight' and now says he followed proper protocol in reporting these abuse allegations. It is assumed, he reported them to Gene Smith, OSU athletic Director and Myers' supervisor. Two days ago, Gene Smith placed Myers on paid administrative leave. Why would you place someone on administrative leave, if you had first hand knowledge that he had followed proper protocol? Have not heard anyone discuss this aspect, even though it seems to be a very staighforward, logical question. Would welcome your thoughts....
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Orange Blooded [3512]
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Re: WOULD WELCOME ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ASPECT OF THE URBAN MYERS
Aug 4, 2018, 11:44 AM
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Straight Forward ???? Logical ???? You do realize you are on T-Net,don't ya' ????
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: WOULD WELCOME ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ASPECT OF THE URBAN MYERS
Aug 4, 2018, 11:55 AM
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Yes, there is a whole lot of lying and folks working like a cat covering up dookie at tOSU currently. If Urban actually did report then the answer at the press conferance should have been I followed required protocols on the matter. Not I Know nussing!( Sergeant Shultz). Now, this is only out in public due to Smith's violation of restraining order, if tOSU ,Urban all did the proper things then there would be no suspension nor an investigation and Smith would still be employed at Urbans wayward boys camp. Right nowthere are serious questions on what went in inside tOSU AD/Athletic department and football offices to allow Smith to remain on staff. Like I said thereis a whole lot of lying going on.
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Re: WOULD WELCOME ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ASPECT OF THE URBAN MYERS
Aug 4, 2018, 12:04 PM
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A lot of people with the Penn State scandal came out at first and said they "followed the correct procedures and protocols." And it turned out a lot of people were either burying, or simply turning a blind eye to a lot of serious stuff that happened. I'll wait to pass judgement on Meyer until I know more. But just because he says he followed procedure doesn't make me any less inclined to question his actions.
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All-TigerNet [10427]
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It's Urban Meyer not Myers
Aug 4, 2018, 12:43 PM
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To answer your question:
1. That was Urban Meyer's version of the facts in the press release. We have no idea if he set the "record straight" with his press release. There's plenty of questions remaining.
2. Urban Meyer admitted that he provided false information at the Big 10 Media event in his press release, i.e. he lied, which put the university in a bad position.
3. Let's say Urban Meyer did report suspicion of domestic abuse to OSU AD Gene Smith back in 2015 (i.e. Zach Smith was under investigation). We have no idea if Urban Meyer reported everything he knew to Gene Smith. Once again, the press release is only Urban Meyer's limited version of the facts.
4. Why did Urban Meyer fire Zach Smith now instead of 2015? That question has not been answered and it was at the heart of the questions posed to Urban Meyer at the Big 10 Media event. Many people are claiming that they would be open to wrongful termination since Zach Smith wasn't charged with a crime in 2015 (which is hogwash, because you can fire an assistant coach for pretty much any reason you want). However, they fired him in 2018 without any additional (alleged) abuse. The only new information was public disclosure of a silly dispute over where the kids were being dropped off/picked up. That doesn't wash.
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Scout Team [169]
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Re: It's Urban Meyer not Myers
Aug 4, 2018, 12:48 PM
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Thanks for your response. Very well stated.
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Re: It's Urban Meyer not Myers
Aug 4, 2018, 12:53 PM
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His statement was lipstick on the pig.
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Re: It's Urban Meyer not Myers
Aug 4, 2018, 12:56 PM
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I think his statement was a legal stake in the ground, i.e. he's stating firmly that if you fire me, you better not claim it is "for cause" and you better be prepared to pay me the full buyout (which I think is around $28 million).
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110%er [6513]
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Re: It's Urban Meyer not Myers
Aug 4, 2018, 1:02 PM
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What a crime, if he was complicit AND recives a buyout, especially one that large. He should get nothing if was, but I do realize he probably will.
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Re: It's Urban Meyer not Myers
Aug 4, 2018, 1:36 PM
[ in reply to It's Urban Meyer not Myers ] |
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To a couple of your points:
3. Urban’s statement stating he did report it, along with Zach’s statement that Gene Smith called him back to discuss the issue, leads me to believe it was reported by someone. How else would Gene know? Further, OSU’s compliance attorney contacted Courtney’s attorney ~30 days later. To me, that reads someone did report it on to compliance and they did follow up.
4. I believe he wasn’t fired because after everyone investigated the issue, including the local PD (do not underestimate this point), there was nothing for which he should have been fired for. Police can’t be called out multiple times and there be no charges, or no arrests, unless there truly was nothing there. That may be why Urban said “again there was nothing.” My feeling is every time these incidents were reported and local PD followed up, it ended up being a nothing burger. He was ultimately fired because he did violate a protective order (which was a BS setup by Courtney), but because there was a public legal transgression that could be validated, I believe it gave them an out with cause. If anything, he should have been fired a few years ago due to poor development of receivers. But, even I have been guilty of hanging onto underperforming employees because they are loyal (along with other qualities).
I could write a lot about how I think both parties were crazy, and Courtney isn’t painting an accurate picture of the overall situation at all, but that may not be a fair thing to do.
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All-TigerNet [10427]
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Re: It's Urban Meyer not Myers
Aug 4, 2018, 2:55 PM
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Nothing against you Buckeye Tiger, but you're hardly a dispassionate or unbiased observer of facts. Your comments on multiple posts/threads have been an unvarnished attempt to protect Urban Meyer. Personally, I've never had anything against either Urban Meyer or Ohio State. I really don't care if he gets fired or not, but I do care about college football passionately and this is a big story.
To your specific point(s):
3. I agree with you that one or more persons did report the (alleged) abuse. Some kind of follow up did occur. None of us have any idea of the extent or whether or not it was simply a pro forma followup and an attempt to bury this to protect the institution from bad publicity and to protect Urban's coach (that he clearly had under his wing because he hired him again after knowing of the domestic troubles at Florida). College football coaches at big time programs like Urban Meyer and Dabo Swinney have HUGE power at their institutions. The relationship between boss (the Athletic Director) and employee (coach) isn't like any normal one.
4. "Police can’t be called out multiple times and there be no charges, or no arrests, unless there truly was 'nothing there." That's simply false. It happens all the time in cases of domestic violence. Reports are that Courtney was counseled by multiple people not to press charges. Her financial well-being was attached to Zach Smith keeping his job and she surely knew that he'd lose his job if she pressed charges. Prosecutors can't make a case unless the victim is willing to cooperate. That said, it may be true that there was insufficient evidence to make an arrest or press charges, but your claim that there was "nothing there" because he wasn't charged or arrested doesn't hold water.
Finally, Zach Smith didn't come off very well in his interview with ESPN. He didn't claim she had no injuries in their disputes. He claimed that any injuries were inflicted due to his "defensive" measures. That's a very common claim made by domestic abusers. Next, he was very specific that he didn't "hit" her. Well, you can do a whole lot of abuse and violence without actually hitting (choking, slamming against a wall, cutting, etc).
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Re: It's Urban Meyer not Myers
Aug 4, 2018, 3:45 PM
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I appreciate your reply. Most people can’t be unbiased. Lots of people here hate UM for one reason or another. I am just trying to look at all the facts, taking all emotion out of the picture. Thus far, the known facts don’t implicate Urban. I’m not protecting him, but I also can’t burn him at the stake with what is currently known. I’m am generally biased against the media and have a negative opinion of the product they put out, so there’s that.
I don’t have anything more to add to point 3.
For point 4, the “leanings” on her happened in Florida. I can add that, if I understand well, the state of Ohio requires an arrest when a DV call is made. One party must be detained for 24 hours. So the statement I made is not false. The officers also are obliged to override a request to not press charges when they observe signs DV has occurred, despite and begs and pleads the alleged victim may make. That is telling. Either there were no signs of DV, or the calls to her house were not DV related, because what we do no is that no one was arrested (unless the documents she has sealed state otherwise).
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All-TigerNet [10427]
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Re: It's Urban Meyer not Myers
Aug 4, 2018, 4:01 PM
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I appreciate the civil discussion. I'm skeptical of the media too, but I wouldn't classify myself as biased against them, i.e. I'm generally inclined to believe that most respected journalists like McMurphy don't make stuff up. However, the media definitely come at stories with their own personal biases and it impacts how facts are presented (and others withheld).
Interesting points on Ohio law. I'll admit that I don't have a clue and haven't read anything about it. Since you seem convinced that there wasn't any evidence that warranted arrest or charges for DV, what's your thoughts on the pictures provided by Courtney to Brett McMurphy and posted on Facebook?
Let me say this... attempts by OSU fans to paint Courtney as a crazy witch doesn't look good for Ohio State in the court of public opinion (even if they are true).
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1st Rounder [617]
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Re: It's Urban Meyer not Myers
Aug 4, 2018, 6:25 PM
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I don’t think those things really matter as to whether Urb keeps his job or not. I think on that end, we are really down to whether he or the university provides proof things were reported thru the proper channels. If he did not, He will surely being fired. If he did, I could still see him being fired, but IMO that would be the wrong thing to do to a man.
What happened between Zach and Courtney is really a civil matter for the PD and courts to sort out. But since you asked, I honestly don’t know what to think on the material that has been published. My reasoning is that they were published without any verification or context. Right now, everyone is being led to view them under a certain light, but if we are really being fair and impartial, a defense attorney is going to rip those things apart as presented. No time stamp, no context, no nothing. If the police showed up to her home that night under DV, then Zach is straight up arrested according to Ohio law. If she didn’t call the cops that day, shame on her.
Same deal with the text messages. Anyone can change the contact name to appear as if it is coming from someone else. His “I know” comment may have been in a response to something just off the screen. “I know” could mean acknowledging any of the points she said and not neccesarily accepting it in its entirety. The text message string could have been manipulated. There could have been 100 messages she deleted between her line about the choking and his “I know.”
Don’t read that as me dismissing anything or taking sides, just that I think it should have been presented better if they are really wanting to expose something. There’s a lot of things that still don’t make sense with their case, and the answers to those things would go a whole heck of a lot further for me than these photos and text messages.
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All-TigerNet [10427]
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Re: It's Urban Meyer not Myers
Aug 4, 2018, 6:52 PM
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I think whether or not she was physically attacked by Zach Smith and whether or not Urban Meyer knew (or should have known) and let him keep his job is very pertinent. I don't think merely reporting the allegations as required is going to be enough to save his job (though it would be enough to avoid being fired for cause and losing his buyout).
Digital pictures do have an electronic time stamp and are even tagged with physical location data unless specifically disabled by your smart phone. They are enabled by default. If I were Brett McMurphy I certainly would have checked those.
I do agree that the "I know" comment in the text messages is ambiguous and not conclusive. However, Shelley Meyer's comment that Zach Smith scares her is not ambiguous. You have to believe that those messages were faked in order to believe that Shelley didn't believe Zach was a physical threat to Courtney.
It's rather convenient that the police report from that incident in October of 2015 is not being released. In addition, she waited until the next morning to go and file the police report claiming she was attacked. According to this news report, physical injuries were noted in the cover sheet of the police report.
http://www.dispatch.com/news/20180803/powell-police-refuse-to-release-report-involving-zach-smith
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1st Rounder [617]
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Re: It's Urban Meyer not Myers
Aug 4, 2018, 7:59 PM
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I respect your stance. I think Urbs obligations were to report any incidents and let the process play out. If that happened and everything came back with “no police charges, no positive evidence, etc.” then Urb was probably within his rights to keep him on board. Zach said he was confronted by Urban and was told he would be fired if he laid a hand on her, but nothing could ever be verified with PD. Under these circumstances, if Urban kept him on staff, it may give you an unfavorable opinion of him and his choices, but not enough to cost him his job. Urban is not the one beating his wife.
The PD article is interesting for 2 reasons. One, I think it gives clarity to one of the officers comments about “arresting someone is easier when both parties are present.” It seems now that if she reported the next day, Zach wasn’t there and they couldn’t properly link him to the abuse they observed. Second, it makes sense why if they observed signs of abuse, no arrest was made under the law because he want there.
I’m aware of all the digital aspects of the material, but there’s a reason why they can’t be included as evidence unless provided by the carrier. I’m sure a lot of things will be cleared up in their court proceedings, but all that is a separate topic in my mind.
For what it’s worth, my view today with everything that is known, excluding the line of reporting angle: Zach is a PoS. Courtney is a special kind of crazy. The two were terrible for each other but couldn’t break their bond. She probably goaded him a lot after a few drinks. He responded physically after hitting the bottle himself. PD was never able to positively equate abuse to Zach. OSU was aware but until PD would do something, left it up to Urban. He kept Zach out of loyalty to Bruce and maybe felt he could be a mentor, but would fire him at the first verifiable report.
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Legend [16226]
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For #4, Zach could have been in 'zero tolerance' land and
Aug 4, 2018, 3:41 PM
[ in reply to It's Urban Meyer not Myers ] |
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since a standing trespassing warning was in place and he violated that just recently, that could have been it. Sounds like everyone at OSU was familiar with the situation at the time.
Until the Powell, OH police start discussing the history of the family 911 calls who really knows what was happening. It sure doesn't look very square today, but we just don't know. When Urban talked about 'counseling' during that same B1G press conference, they very well could have been heavily engaged in that process. Yeah Smith is a grandson of a mentor, but that's a lot to ask of an Urban Meyer to stick his neck that far out, and let's face it, Zach Smith is no Dabo Swinney as a WR coach, so some of the prevailing narratives don't add up.
Bottom line, I don't know that the Mrs. isn't bat-#### crazy and that the Meyers haven't been trying to protect Zach, as well as mom, for years.
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All-In [43992]
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In response to #4 above, why is this an issue now?
Aug 4, 2018, 3:48 PM
[ in reply to It's Urban Meyer not Myers ] |
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Why wasn’t it an issue in 2015?
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All-TigerNet [10427]
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Re: In response to #4 above, why is this an issue now?
Aug 4, 2018, 4:08 PM
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The point is that it should have been an issue in 2015. Urban Meyer is known for having a zero tolerance policy for violence against women, yet he kept someone on staff that was suspected of violence against his wife for 3 years and then fired him in 2018 for a technicality (trespassing because he dropped off/picked up the kids at the wrong location). If this guy was a danger to women, then he should have been fired in 2015 or never hired him in the first place after the incidents in 2009 while they were coaching together at Florida.
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Legend [17522]
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My read ...
Aug 4, 2018, 1:32 PM
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Urban Meyer brought his young buddy Zach Smith from University of Florida to Ohio State with some prior knowledge of Smith's marital problems. Then IMHO Meyer did follow protocol in reporting a 2015 Smith incident to the AD and/or Ohio State administration. My question is why did Meyer not relieve Smith from his contract - maybe for other reasons. I suspect the answer is Meyer likes Smith and Smith is good at his job, and so Meyer looked the other way and hoped for the best for a young married couple he liked.
Like many I cannot stand Meyer's hubris, but I see his job status as fragile but redeemable. I see it as close to 50-50 he keeps his job. There are more cards to be played such as Mrs. Meyer stating she should have emphasized the Smiths' problems to her husband but did not because he had his own health issues and enough on his plate. Look for the Meyers' and Ohio State to throw some scenarios at the wall of public perception and see what sticks. Maybe even give Mrs. Smith $1M as friendly cover/hush money to "help her out". Lots of angles remain to be played, and there will be a small level of impact to Clemson for a few years in terms of chasing top national recruits.
As for Meyer, his reputation could be slightly besmirched, but if nothing else comes out he could survive. And if he does not, I still believe Notre Dame, Oregon, LSU and many others will come running for Meyer's services after he does a second one-year sabbatical at ESPN. Time will tell.
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110%er [7929]
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Re: WOULD WELCOME ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ASPECT OF THE URBAN MYERS
Aug 4, 2018, 2:35 PM
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Folks are often suspended during an investigation for several reasons. Does not make him innocent or guilty. Just makes him suspended until the investigation is complete and a decision is made.
FWIW the suspension makes it appear that the university is taking the matter seriously which may or may not be the case
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Standout [333]
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Re: WOULD WELCOME ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ASPECT OF THE URBAN MYERS
Aug 4, 2018, 3:27 PM
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I think the day UM hired this coach he put himself in position to be fired with just cause. He new everything about the coach and never should’ve hired him. Maybe he did tell AD but did not tell the whole story. They may have been waiting on proof before they fired him.
I was on a jury in Mt. Pleasant where the wife refused to charge her husband. The town of Mt. Pleasant pressed charges and took it to court. The wife tried to take the blame so her husband would not be guilty. Did not work. We took a vote to see where everyone stood, unanimous guilty! Took all of 5 minuets.
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110%er [9023]
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My response? O-H-UH-O***
Aug 4, 2018, 5:44 PM
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Orange Blooded [3812]
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arrogant ego manic
Aug 4, 2018, 6:44 PM
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In all fairness he can coach however he’s just a bad dude based on everything I’ve read. The better question is how lucky are we to have Dabo?
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All-In [40872]
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Somebody has to take the fall for Meyer***
Aug 4, 2018, 8:00 PM
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