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Replies: 56
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Hall of Famer [21810]
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Car net - lease kweshion
Mar 22, 2021, 10:47 AM
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per my gmhwyw post, dawghater2she and I looking at new cars. she needs a newer/bigger car for baby.
my thought was to lease a car for a few years, given the unknown of future babies / family growth. I'm usually against leasing, but in this particular instance, it seems like a decent approach.
what do you use to evaluate a lease?
One call-out worth mentioning: I want to get her a new car so I can put that on my car re-imbursement plan. My truck just hit the limit where I get taxed on the re-imbursement. So a newer model will fall into the plan. That's the main driver for getting a brand new car as well (plus wife + baby...looking for least amount of issues as possible).
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All-In [36448]
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Buy car you need then get a vasectomy.
Mar 22, 2021, 10:49 AM
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Problem solved
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Hall of Famer [21810]
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naw man, we going for
Mar 22, 2021, 10:51 AM
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Greenr level of house workers
jk, but more than one is the goal.
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All-In [36448]
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When I got to 3 I had it done.
Mar 22, 2021, 11:43 AM
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Best decision I ever made. 3 is enough
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All-TigerNet [11155]
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Easy way to evaluate a lease
Mar 22, 2021, 10:55 AM
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Heisman Winner [135558]
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Biggest trap imo is the mileage cap
Mar 22, 2021, 10:57 AM
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If it won’t be driven very much probably a good option given your circumstances
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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We've been looking into it, the biggest problem I see with
Mar 22, 2021, 11:00 AM
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that is if she's only driving ~10k miles a year, I can have an almost new paid off car in 4-5 years.
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All-In [43408]
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I'm assuming you're preggo with your first kid?
Mar 22, 2021, 10:59 AM
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Normal to worry about the unknowns, but your car needs won't change much within the next few years. Even if you have a 2nd kid, you can get around in a small SUV or sedan for quite a while.
If'n you planning on 3+ kids, pretty much a minivan or suburban are your only real choices long term.
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Hall of Famer [21810]
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we could definitely make do w/ wife's current car
Mar 22, 2021, 11:12 AM
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but, it's a POS.
i want a slightly larger SUV, at least V6 and AWD if we're taking it on road trips (which we will be instead of my truck)
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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By the time you get her bags, the babies bags, stroller,
Mar 22, 2021, 11:17 AM
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high chair, travel crib, etc. loaded up you're either going to be taking your truck or wishing you had a Tahoe/Tukon/Expedition.
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Hall of Famer [21810]
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touche - and agreed
Mar 22, 2021, 11:21 AM
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one last caveat...
I want to find a car that gets better mileage while I drive mine paid for over the next few years. I figured by monitoring the mileage, I'd be able to use her cars for day trips for work and make a lot more money on my mileage re-imbursement.
So add'l caveat...looking for a better mpg car to use sparingly for my work trips (else I'd go yukon/expedition immediately) until I get in the diesel 150/1500
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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I'd go ahead and start checking out Expeditions and Tahoes
Mar 22, 2021, 11:29 AM
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We bought a CX-5, and while great for around town, whenever my wife goes somewhere further than an hour away she wants my truck. Well, really needs it if she's staying over night. I vastly underestimated the amount of #### required to travel with a child.
And hers needs about 100 more horsepower.
Used to really liked the Lexus GX, but it's so dated at this point I don't think we'll end up getting one. A Telluride may fit the bill for y'all.
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Heisman Winner [105381]
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Nah chief, we did 3 kids traveling all over the place in a
Mar 22, 2021, 12:13 PM
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Pilot. Tahoes and Expeditions just give you more space to take more stuff. I have packed that Pilot to the max though, barely seeing out the back window. Buy a car that is comfortable, buy a roof rack luggage carrier or a tailgate carrier if you need more space for crap. Otherwise, limit your crap.*
*We have yet to take the new car anywhere, that is in 2 weeks, and we bought a tailgate carrier off Amazon to try that out.
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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No thanks, I lived that life growing up
Mar 22, 2021, 12:29 PM
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Spending an hour playing tetris with luggage to get things loaded, loading/unloading car top carriers in the rain/cold, busting my shins on those stupid tailgate carriers then having to remove it before I can unload the back....I'll buy a Econoline van before going through that again.
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Heisman Winner [105381]
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You got one kid and maxed out a small SUV. You don't think
Mar 22, 2021, 12:38 PM
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you will max out a Tahoe when you start driving that around?
It's up to the individual person, obviously, but I couldn't justify the extra $20k for a Tahoe that would be comfortable on the long trips that we take twice a year.
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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What did you end up getting? No, I don't think so
Mar 22, 2021, 12:53 PM
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Should have enough room for everything. Beach trips, etc. we take the truck. My wife and her mom have started taking little trips which is the main driver for looking at bigger SUV's. That, and with the new carseat her car is now essentially a 2.5 passenger car. You can get a child or midget in the front seat, but an adult would need to sit in the back seat.
We're not going to buy anything for at least another year or so anyway. But If I had to do it again, we'd have gotten something bigger from the get go. Not Yukon XL big, but bigger. If I could talk her into a Telluride I'd probably go ahead and get one this year.
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All-In [43408]
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Hold up. All of you just hold up.
Mar 22, 2021, 12:55 PM
[ in reply to You got one kid and maxed out a small SUV. You don't think ] |
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Twerks fine Greenr when you have little kids. Just wait till they get older. OR WAIT UNTIL THEY MAKE FRIENDS.
It's really not hard to slam a suburban to the ceiling, have #### tied all over one of those racks you stick in your trailer hitch, AND have a rooftop carrier full. Not hard at all.
I think this year for the beach we may officially become 2 cars full.
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Oculus Spirit [79366]
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I think my BIL has figured it out
Mar 22, 2021, 1:00 PM
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He rents a little enclosed UHaul trailer whenever they go somewhere.
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Heisman Winner [105381]
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Yeah, I see that, for sure. And I also see the potential
Mar 22, 2021, 1:32 PM
[ in reply to Hold up. All of you just hold up. ] |
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to eat my words later down the road.
I just see alot of people who immediately buy an Expedition, an Excursion, or a Suburban as soon as they have a kid. Yeah, it is convenient and if it works for you, go for it. I am not trying to shame anyone who buys those SUVs, I would have if money was no object and the Suburban would fit in the garage, BUT that aint always the case. When people stretch themselves to the limit though trying to get a new Tahoe cause they might have a second kid and they need captain backseats to get two carseats in, that makes me LOL.
We pack like sardines sometimes, I know it. I also recognize that sometimes you might just want to take two vehicles places, if that need arises.
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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I got a Tahoe when I had my first kid
Mar 22, 2021, 1:36 PM
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the thing I didn't factor into was how friggin rough it is on your back getting the kid/carrier/stroller in and out of a car that high up. IMHO until your kids are big enough to crawl in and out of the car themselves it's not THE best car for a family.
Debating getting one again now that my kids are older and can carry their own ####.
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Heisman Winner [105381]
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Those baby carrier car seat things are heavy AF.***
Mar 22, 2021, 1:48 PM
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CU Medallion [55980]
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Everyone I know who has leased a car ends up
Mar 22, 2021, 11:00 AM
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buying it in the end, which is essentially financing a car for eight years. By the time you get to the end of the lease term you start thinking about what you'll replace the car with and then you realize you can spend a little less money and just buy out the car you've been driving for three years. If there's any kind of damage to the car that you'd be responsible for, the odds of buying it out increases to 100%.
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Hall of Famer [21810]
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this is also my biggest fear
Mar 22, 2021, 11:11 AM
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but, we've determined if we have #2 here or in the oven, we're going to get the next size up (sequoia, yukon, etc.)
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CU Medallion [59967]
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we only lease
Mar 22, 2021, 11:01 AM
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that is because we are "car people" and I like to switch out every 3-4 years. Its very rare that I buy a car. I bought this Jeep I am in now, but that is because I know the resell will be amazing and I have no worries with any kind of upside down scenarios.
Next lease for me will be a Chevy 2500HD. I have my mind made up on that one....I think. Might change tomorrow.
I think its a great way to have a cool car, have fun and spend the money you work hard to have.
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Oculus Spirit [80892]
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Protip:unless you need a 2500HD for frequent towing
Mar 22, 2021, 11:10 AM
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of something really heavy, don't bother with it. I've had a 2500HD then a 3500HD for the last 4-5 years with a short break between the two, and a 1/2 ton (150/1500) series makes much more sense for 99% of people daily driving, and they ride a lot better, too.
2500/3500's ride like a wagon, and unless you get a diesel, they lose their value terribly. They have a chit turning radius and are hard to park. Simply going to the store becomes a chore just due to parking.
I know, people told me the same thing before I bought both of mine. I didn't believe them either. I liked them when I had them, but won't get another one.
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Hall of Famer [21810]
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I want a 2500 / 250
Mar 22, 2021, 11:17 AM
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b/c they're badfuckingass
don't need it...maybe one day to pull my yellowfin and cattle trailer.
in the interim, my next truck will be a 1500 / 150 diesel (probably in 3 - 5 years)
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Oculus Spirit [80892]
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I sold my 3500 last month.
Mar 22, 2021, 11:21 AM
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Great truck, loaded. But when Carmax said they'd give me $700 less than I paid for it 2 years and 13,000 miles ago, I got to thinking how I'd rather have a big fat check sitting in my bank than how badass the truck was sitting in my driveway.
And with the price of boats being what they are, I finally had to realize I'm never going to get that Freeman or Yellowfin.
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Lot o points [155494]
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Do some digging around this forum. More than
Mar 22, 2021, 11:01 AM
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you could ever want to know.
https://leasehackr.com/ LEASEHACKR America's largest online community dedicated to the art of car leasing. Leasehackr provides the premier resources to discover the best and latest deals.
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All-TigerNet [11155]
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Only a 4-speed website? No thanks
Mar 22, 2021, 11:05 AM
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:P
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Hall of Famer [21810]
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Lot o points [155494]
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Hall of Famer [21810]
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wow
Mar 22, 2021, 11:29 AM
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his prices on the highlander are pretty enticing. great find. thanks again
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Lot o points [155494]
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you bet, just drop me a t-mell if you have any other
Mar 22, 2021, 11:31 AM
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Q's.
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All-TigerNet [11623]
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Just buy the minivan now...
Mar 22, 2021, 11:02 AM
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It solves are your problems.
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Hall of Famer [21810]
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shut your mouth when you're talking to me
Mar 22, 2021, 11:15 AM
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ex-nay on the mini-van, eh?
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All-TigerNet [11623]
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We've got a 2021 Odyssey...
Mar 22, 2021, 11:22 AM
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It replaced our 2011 Odyssey.
Say what you want but nothing beats them for convenience.
We took our 2011 to the Natty in Tampa. Nothing like watching movies in the back seat and having cold beer in the console cooler nearby.
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All-In [43408]
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^^^This guy is correct.
Mar 22, 2021, 12:57 PM
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Say what you want, but it checks all the boxes:
MPG? CHECK.
Room? Yep, as much (or more) as a Suburban
Sliding doors? You betchya.
Room to bang your wife? PLENTY!
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Oculus Spirit [80892]
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residual values and money factor are the biggest pieces
Mar 22, 2021, 11:03 AM
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I thought about leasing a Land Cruiser last month when I sold my truck, but found out they have a 52% residual factor after 3 years (which was a surprise to me). So essentially, Toyota finance is leasing (lending) you 52% of the value of the vehicle, at a money factor (or lease cost) of x%.
Sometimes you can make money on those, like say, if had you leased a 2019 diesel Denali 3500 in 2018. They would have given you a stupid low residual value, and had you kept the lease to fruition, the truck would have been worth a lot more at the end of the lease than GMAC said it was going to be. That delta would have been equity in your pocket. I mean unless somehow GMAC knew there was going to be pandemic that would stop truck production and make used car values go through the roof, and said the truck would have been worth more.
Residuals usually aren't negotiable, but money factors and sometimes allowable mileage in the lease term are. Leases normally work better for vehicles with a lot of options, because the residual is higher, making it cheaper to "finance".
I've never leased a car; I used to put too many miles on a car for that to make sense. Now I don't do it now because I hate car payments, so I just save up and pay for them.
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Hall of Famer [21810]
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I think we'll be fine w/ the mileage thing
Mar 22, 2021, 11:14 AM
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for her. her current car is a 2012, and it has 62k miles on it.
granted, she lived in Europe for a year standing up Nike's DC over there. But she doesn't travel a lot, and she lives < 10 miles from her office (whenever she goes back).
the play here is solely for lack of depreciation, betting on needing a new car in a few years.
and I typically follow your approach of buying, paying off ASAP.
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Oculus Spirit [80892]
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The lack of depreciation doesn't make sense though
Mar 22, 2021, 11:17 AM
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You're paying for that with "cap costs" and other upfront charges. The lease payment is just paying for the use of the car.
The best way to drive a car is still to find one with low miles, 2-3 years old, buy it, pay it off as soon as you can, and keep it as long as you can.
I rarely do that (I've done it once, actually), but its really the only way that makes financial sense.
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Lot o points [155494]
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Selling price is the other piece of the puzzle.
Mar 22, 2021, 12:48 PM
[ in reply to residual values and money factor are the biggest pieces ] |
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You’re paying for the delta between selling price and residual (which is based on full MSRP, not sales price).
So the perfect storm is a vehicle with inflated residuals (manufacturers can support these artificially) combined with heavy discounts/incentives to pay for the smallest delta possible.
For money factor, just multiply times 24 to get a rough estimate of the interest rate and make sure you aren’t getting hosed.
The F150 I had a while back——it had an MSRP of $55k, a residual in the upper 60 percents, and I got $12k off sticker. So I was ultimately paying for 44k - (55k * 67-ish%) over 2 years plus the cost of borrowing the money (money factor)
Ended up paying about $7500 over 2 years for it. There wasn’t a scenario I foresaw where I got a half ton truck within 5 model years of that one and lost less than $7500 over 2 years.
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All-In [47626]
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There's a reason Dave Ramsey calls it a flease.
Mar 22, 2021, 12:01 PM
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HTH
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Lot o points [155494]
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Because Dave is catering to 60th percentile
Mar 22, 2021, 12:35 PM
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Lowest common denominators who don’t understand biz tax deductions for depreciation as well as over-incented money factors and residuals by manufacturers.
DR would think I’m an idiot for getting a “new” ride every 2-3 years...so be it. It’s pretty much my main hobby and my family is fed and dry and my retirement prospects are quite healthy. Given that I’m not going to dump my hobby because Dave Ramsey said so, there are certain situations where leasing makes perfect sense.
It’s problematic for those (who again, he caters to) who are shopping for a car payment and not a car, and/or think a lease is a great way to afford a Lexus they could t otherwise buy for Toyota money.
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All-In [31811]
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If you look at the stats, it's more like 80th percentile....
Mar 22, 2021, 3:37 PM
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and he gives advice on leases from strictly a financial perspective and in most cases he right on. As a general statement, most leases are bad financial decision. Not all, but most.
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All-In [47776]
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I just giggle at the thought that you are a Dave Ramsey
Mar 22, 2021, 4:58 PM
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Disciple. it is so fitting. Jaun McCain, Dave Ramsey bwhahahaha
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All-In [31811]
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Seriously....
Mar 22, 2021, 7:08 PM
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between the 2 of us, who do you think knows more about finance?
Not trying to be an a-hole, but come on.
Also, as I said previously, I'm not a disciple of his...I follow his teachings/advice 100%. I have a credit card (rarely use it and don't carry a balance)...but I am debt free except for my house and should have house paid for in 10 yrs...will retire with a healthy 401k/roth 401k, and will have kids college well funded...and live a pretty pampered life. I'm certainly a believer that common consumer debt is generally ill-advised.
It's ok if you have a different opinion, but Ramsey has done a world of good and improved a ton of lives.
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All-In [47776]
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exactly what do you think you know about my finances?***
Mar 23, 2021, 2:26 PM
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All-In [47776]
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Dave Ramsey = idiot; his advice is horrible; and
Mar 22, 2021, 1:00 PM
[ in reply to There's a reason Dave Ramsey calls it a flease. ] |
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his marketing his snake oil through churches is revolting.
If I'd followed his advice, I'd still be saving for college rather than making enough to place me in the 1%.
Absolutely nothing per se wrong with leasing a car and is the right choice for many.
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Oculus Spirit [80892]
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Like Obed said, he has a target audience.
Mar 22, 2021, 1:55 PM
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And it's not typically those who can actually handle money.
I laugh at his advice on college; if someone can work "part time" and afford to save up $30-$40K after rent, car insurance and food just to go to a year of college, it makes me wonder if they really need to go to college in the first place.
I listened to him the other night for a few minutes (first time in a long time), and he seems grumpier now than he ever has. He rattled on for 20 minutes about the government and debt, then tore some guy a new b-whole for having a car payment. Then he also extolls the virtues of not using credit cards, but certainly will take your credit card number to buy his books, videos and lesson plans.
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All-In [31811]
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I failed to mention...
Mar 22, 2021, 3:39 PM
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when did he start taking credit cards. Used to be he only accepted debit cards on-line. Maybe something changed with the MC/VISA network where you can't distinguish between debit and credit cards any more.
I know I gave Financial Peace classes out to some employees a few yrs back and had to put it on my personal debit card because his site wouldn't accept my company credit card.
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Oculus Spirit [80892]
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I heard one of his flunkies say they accept Visa and MC
Mar 22, 2021, 3:48 PM
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the other night when he was hocking his new book or class or something.
Noone mentioned it had to be a debit card.
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All-In [31811]
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Just looked at their on-line store and it has a....
Mar 22, 2021, 4:08 PM
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"why only debit cards" link there. Also takes payment from Paypal, so I don't think they would be able to keep that from being a credit card.
I guess the main point is it sure looks like they try to do what they reasonably can to keep from being hypocritical.
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All-In [31811]
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Joined: 11/22/03
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You calling Dave Ramsey an idiot is laughable...
Mar 22, 2021, 3:35 PM
[ in reply to Dave Ramsey = idiot; his advice is horrible; and ] |
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I don't agree with/follow all of his advice, but in general, he is right. Debt is dumb and cash is king.
His college saving/no student loan advise is tough nowadays. But the principle is correct. Take the avg college grad coming out of a state or local college with very large student loans. In many/most cases, that student would have been better served by delaying college for 1-2 years and accumulating enough money to start college, work part-time while in college, and come out with no debt.
And what in the world about what he teaching is snake oil? I've taught his Financial Peace class before through church and it helped a LOT of people get their finances in order and get out of debt.
There are circumstances (although very limited) where leasing a car makes financial sense.
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All-In [47776]
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it is snake oil because it is flat out bad advice
Mar 22, 2021, 4:49 PM
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and it is even more of an abomination that he uses the church as cover for this bad advice so that he can personally profit.
There is nothing inherently wrong with debt. It is not evil as he makes it out. If there's anything evil in all this its his prostitution of the church.
A more sensible class would be teaching how to leverage debt and credit.
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All-In [31811]
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sorry, but you are flat wrong.....
Mar 22, 2021, 6:51 PM
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and doesn't prostitute the church. How can you say that with a straight face?
His advise is correct - normally in the specifics and certainly in general.
Do some research on studies of millionaires and billionaires and their habits. Very few get their by leveraging debt.
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Oculus Spirit [78823]
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All-In [47626]
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I spelled it that way on purpose.
Mar 23, 2021, 8:35 AM
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"Lease" becomes "Flease"
But thanks for the English lesson Mrs. Wiggins.
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