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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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I think Trump is playing this unemployment issue...
Aug 7, 2020, 8:09 AM
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the right way. People can't afford to return to work if they are expected to take a reduced income to do so. The thought that unemployed would actually take a paycut to work is ludicrous. It defies common sense. Personally, I'd draw unemployment and go fishing.
The negotiations are not going well. Pelosi and Schummer turned down an offer for a temporary extension to help the unemployed while the politicians try to reach as agreement. WHen asked about that by a PBS reporter Nancy accused her of siding with republicans.
Trump has threatened, or promised to exe order a ban on evictions and move some of the money from the previous stimulus package to extend unemployment benefits. This was a fantastic political move, imo. Offering to help those who are in dire financial straits this close to the election is going to go far. It's a win/win scenario for Trump.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: I think Trump is playing this unemployment issue...
Aug 7, 2020, 8:12 AM
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When do you think they will come to a deal?
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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when Pelosi and Schumer feel the heat...
Aug 7, 2020, 8:14 AM
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this seems oddly similar to last time.
Why would they not agree to extend what they were doing until a new agreement could be reached? Is there any good reason? Anybody?
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All-In [26968]
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Using the urgency as leverage to get other stuff done.***
Aug 7, 2020, 8:15 AM
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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correct...
Aug 7, 2020, 8:17 AM
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so if it is stuff that has nothing to do with this specific crisis, is that legitimate?
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All-In [26968]
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Usually, they reach a deal in time to avoid any actual
Aug 7, 2020, 8:19 AM
[ in reply to when Pelosi and Schumer feel the heat... ] |
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suffering by anybody. They just like to play this "their fault" game as long as possible to help their score in their imaginary political football game.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: when Pelosi and Schumer feel the heat...
Aug 7, 2020, 8:21 AM
[ in reply to when Pelosi and Schumer feel the heat... ] |
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Because they want people to suffer so Trump loses. That's the only reason I can think of.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Prod is correct...
Aug 7, 2020, 8:24 AM
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and I don't know if you are being sarcastic, but they will be okay with some suffering if they can blame it on the Republicans.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Prod is correct...
Aug 7, 2020, 8:43 AM
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I was being serious. I can't understand their reasoning, so that's the only thing I can imagine. They want some misery on people so people want change.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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I wouldn't say it that strongly...
Aug 7, 2020, 8:48 AM
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but in my estimation, anybody who would do that in a time like this is a pretty bad person.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: I wouldn't say it that strongly...
Aug 7, 2020, 8:56 AM
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It's nuanced probably, but they are thinking that it hurts Trump so they will hold out and play hardball for their demands. They think they're in a better position.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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but it's been like that for years...
Aug 7, 2020, 8:59 AM
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Republicans are almost always at a disadvantage in negotiations, because more often than not, the media blames the stalemate on them.
...and traditionally, they tuck their tail and cave under the pressure.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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today, are they really in the minority...
Aug 7, 2020, 11:35 AM
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if they have enough members from the democrat party to hold things up, they have help to shame the pubs into giving in. Pubs finally began to stand up to them after about the second year of Trump's term.
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CU Guru [1314]
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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if it wasn't an absolutely absurd bat crap crazy...
Aug 7, 2020, 8:12 AM
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you would almost think Pelosi and Schumer want to cause as much suffering as possible for some odd reason.
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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"absolutely absurd bat crap crazy."
Aug 7, 2020, 8:23 AM
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This is Pelosi's swansong. If Trump doesn't take her out of the speaker's seat by reelection the young incoming AOC radicals will. This isn't an anomaly. This is the direction of the democrat party.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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I'm crazy...
Aug 7, 2020, 8:27 AM
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but Pelosi is one of the most self-serving, dishonest, horrible people in Washington.
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Oculus Spirit [97676]
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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I'm guessing you don't agree with James Carville...
Aug 7, 2020, 9:32 AM
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he was hollering all through the Democrat debates that they were too progressive.
Beyond Biden, there are a couple more "moderate" candidates on the bench. But most of them are far, far left.
The dems know that their chance to get rid of a loose cannon like Trump is to beat him with middle-of-the road sensibility. Not crazy progressive agendas. They want the independent vote and moderates.
This is pure strategy. They don't want Biden, but the goal this election is to get rid of Trump. Get rid of Trump and we are back to the pubs they are always able to push around.
This is long-term strategy.
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All-In [34100]
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Primaries shore up the base. General moves to the center.***
Aug 7, 2020, 9:46 AM
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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probably, but....
Aug 7, 2020, 9:59 AM
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Super Tuesday was the turning point.
In my understanding, Warren and Bernie were generally splitting the Democratic Socialist vote.
Warren dropped out after that and although Biden had really extended his lead, Bernie still had a chance. He might have been leading if Warren had not been in the race.
Based on Bernie's strong showing in 2016 against Hillary and the rule changes that dumped the super delegate crap, Bernie could have won. He is very popular.
Seems after Super Tuesday a lot of behind the scenes stuff urged Bernie to get out.
Where is "center" for Bernie if he would have won?
Bernie is more popular than Biden. He might have had more enthusiastic support, but I do not think the Democrats believe that Bernie can beat Trump.
Regardless of the real or perceived movement from primaries to the general, Biden is the safe choice.
Of course, that is my opinion.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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Legend [17756]
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All-In [40875]
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All-In [46801]
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I know Pelosi is yall's new Hillary, but that's not
Aug 7, 2020, 10:30 AM
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what's happening here.
House passed a stimulus package (because spending bills have to originate in the house),
Mitch said no ####### way are we passing that.
Senate Republicans passed their own plan getting rid of the additional 600 a month unemployment because bob the welder can't understand why somebody out of work due to a pandemic would want to keep lights on and make their mortgage payment.
Trump then railed against that idea from his own party.
Now the two packages are being used to find a middle ground (possible 200 dollar on top of unemployment... because that matters)
You are being (very) easily turned against the wrong people because that's what they want
https://www.forbes.com/sites/advisor/2020/08/05/congress-continues-to-negotiate-second-stimulus-package/#47bade952a06
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All-In [40875]
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huh? We've hated that witch for decades.***
Aug 7, 2020, 7:01 PM
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Standout [347]
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What you’re leaving out is the consequence of
Aug 7, 2020, 11:12 AM
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continuing to draw that unemployment check that pays more instead of going back to work. If your job opens back up and you say “no thanks, I’m going to stay on unemployment,” you lose your job. So yes, many people will go back and work for less pay. Otherwise they would have to start a whole new job once the in employment stops. And there either won’t be enough jobs back open yet to go find a new one, or there’s no guarantee you find a job paying equal to the amount you were getting with the bonus. If you could, you probably would have already done so. The money is designed to help people make it through whose jobs have not opened yet, which many haven’t or have reopened with less staff.
I do agree that the $600 is probably too much, I’d like to see it more around $450, but people smarter than me will make that call.
Also, side note, it may be illegal to continue to stay on unemployment after you have been offered your job back-I could very well be wrong about that, and given how overwhelmed unemployment offices are, even if it was illegal they probably wouldn’t know, but still doing something illegal would also be a deterrent for some people.
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All-In [46801]
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Another issue they are purposely leaving out
Aug 7, 2020, 11:16 AM
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is these jobs (mainly service sector like food service industries, restaurants etc) who are slowly opening back up with drive through or carry out only. They call their employees to come back in but only offer 5-10 hours a week. So your options are to either go back to work for 5 hours a week which you can't live on or refuse to go back until there are more hour and (under the Republican plan) then lose your unemployment.
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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You are correct about the details of qualifying for UE.
Aug 7, 2020, 5:36 PM
[ in reply to What you’re leaving out is the consequence of ] |
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Typically, if you're offered a job equal to the job you got laid off from your eligibility for UE ends. That isn't happening now. People claim to have covid symptoms and get sent home to prevent the spread. They are qualifying for unemployment benefits.
I know one guy who was laid off from a job last year, drew his UE check until his benefits ran out in Dec then filed again after the last stimulus package and SC started sending him checks again. He was drawing max from SC and getting the 600 on top of that.
Yes, I considered that and it's not a factor.
I believe an added 200 bucks to weekly UE checks is ok but not to satisfy the needs of the unemployed but because most people will spend the money which stimulates the economy. Keep it at 600 bucks and businesses won't be able to staff.
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Standout [347]
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Most people will go back if their job opens and will go
Aug 7, 2020, 6:59 PM
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back to work, even if it’s less money, so they don’t get fired and lose their job. The UE bonus is a short term thing. People would rather have their jobs back and security than a few months at a little bit more pay.
But I know that goes against the Republican narrative, so don’t stop believin!
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Legend [18003]
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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Who am I to argue with a Yale professor.
Aug 7, 2020, 5:41 PM
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While I have your attention, at the beginning of econ 301, labor economics, our professors told us that if we could find any decisions which ignored economics he would give us an A for the course without us attending or being tested. He exempt love. People will make poor economic decisions out of emotions including pride, jealousy and hate, anger, rage.
So no, your Yale professor is a liar. He couldn't find any evidence because he forgot about economic fundamentals. It's a political hack.
Now go back and finish the OP. 
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Legend [18003]
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lol
Aug 7, 2020, 6:30 PM
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wut?
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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Re: lol
Aug 7, 2020, 7:15 PM
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All decisions are based on economics. Granted, some may be long-term economics and some might return to work if a job is a certain future with great pay and benefits along with a healthy retirement plan but those jobs were never lost, those people worked from home.
Small businesses, which is where most damage was done, doesn't offer the previously described employment. Your Yale professor is able to ignore the obvious. He's a political hack.
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Legend [18003]
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Read the piece and/or read the five studies it mentions
Aug 7, 2020, 7:59 PM
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From the Yale Study, "Last, states that received more small business loans from the Paycheck Protection Program and states with more generous unemployment insurance benefits had milder declines and faster recoveries. We find no evidence that high UI replacement rates drove job losses or slowed rehiring."
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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Re: Read the piece and/or read the five studies it mentions
Aug 8, 2020, 11:09 AM
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'..states that received more small business loans from the Paycheck Protection Program..'
Are you aware that if your paycheck continues while you're not actively working you don't qualify for unemployment? So people who were drawing their paychecks didn't get unemployment and that is evidence that unemployment doesn't deter what?
They had more generous UE benefits which the employees couldn't draw due to their paychecks being deposited in their banks weekly?
That's nonsense.
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