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All-In [43989]
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How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 3, 2022, 11:57 PM
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to gain academic admission to Clemson in order to be eligible to play a sport?
In other words, athletes would have to meet the same academic admission requirements that non-athletes must meet. They would not be given any preference for admission just because they play a sport, and their admission or rejection would be solely based on academic merit.
There are obviously a lot of layers to this, with various repercussions. But on the surface, would you be for it?
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Freshman [-41]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 12:03 AM
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Absolutely not. No school in the country does this. Ivy’s included
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Associate AD [848]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 7, 2022, 11:43 AM
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You would be incorrect on that statement. I know for a fact that Harvard expects all of its student athletes to meet the same academic requirements as all of the other students.
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Legend [17520]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 7, 2022, 6:48 PM
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Untrue sat Princeton.
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Hall of Famer [24672]
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All-Conference [417]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 8, 2022, 9:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes ] |
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These schools also heavily consider past donations from family. I've known a few that worked in admissions and if your family donated 500k they pretty much let you in. A lot of people get in this way.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 7, 2022, 7:21 PM
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VAndy and Stanford too.
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Legend [17241]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 12:04 AM
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Virtually all of football players under Dabo Swinney's reign have graduated. Does not seem to be an issue with academic qualifications on the football team. Not as famliar with other sports, but most seem to have a higher graduation rate than the general student body. Traditionally, I believe men's basketball has been one of the lowest graduation rates.
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110%er [8095]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 12:09 AM
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Dude, they have tutors. I guarantee you that the majority of Clemson's football players would not qualify for admission if they did not play football.
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All-In [43989]
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Exactly. Most are also directed toward easier majors.***
Jan 4, 2022, 12:17 AM
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110%er [8047]
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Re: Exactly. Most are also directed toward easier majors.***
Jan 4, 2022, 1:12 PM
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What’s wrong with “easier” majors? Most majors are worthless today. I said most, not all. Who are you to decide what is easier or harder?
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110%er [5712]
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Re: Exactly. Most are also directed toward easier majors.***
Jan 4, 2022, 5:24 PM
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If you cannot distinguish between easy and hard, you are not smart enough to DECIDE anything.
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110%er [8095]
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Re: Exactly. Most are also directed toward easier majors.***
Jan 4, 2022, 5:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: Exactly. Most are also directed toward easier majors.*** ] |
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That wasn't my point. I'm glad they have tutors. And it is fine that they choose easy majors. That explains the high graduation rate.
My main point is that many of these "Student-ATHLETES" would not get accepted if they competed evenly with all other students. College is an institute of higher EDUCATION, it should not be a developmental league for the NFL. The NFL should fund their own developmental league.
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110%er [7929]
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Re: Exactly. Most are also directed toward easier majors.***
Jan 8, 2022, 7:22 AM
[ in reply to Exactly. Most are also directed toward easier majors.*** ] |
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Directed? Most go to the majors like sociology because of their academic background. They are not prepared for a STEM majotlr
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CU Guru [1015]
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Re: Exactly. Most are also directed toward easier majors.***
Jan 8, 2022, 8:00 AM
[ in reply to Exactly. Most are also directed toward easier majors.*** ] |
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Am not in favor of it but do feel we have to have standards high enough to meet NCAA ACC standards. I’m guessing this is the main reason Brian Kelly headed to LSU .
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Legend [17241]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 12:23 AM
[ in reply to Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes ] |
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So what. They have Clemson degrees that they earned. Other students can use tutors.
They spend a large amount of time on athletics so I don't begrudge them academic support. We have an entire academic success facility for non-athletes too.
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Orange Blooded [3134]
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THIS ^^ Clemson isn't UNCheat
Jan 4, 2022, 11:09 AM
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You put in the effort, tutor or no tutor, you get rewarded with a diploma.
Evidently, the original OP has no clue what the Student Athlete's schedule is day in and day out. They aren't sitting around all day and every day playing X-box and eating pizza. A tutor is a benefit bestowed by the school for the effort that they put in on the field.
FFS, most are graduating in 3 years or less. What more do you want?
JK you are Trollin like the coots we have to run off from this board.
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All-In [43989]
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Incorrect. I realize how much time these athletes spend
Jan 4, 2022, 12:59 PM
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on their sport, WHICH IS PART OF THE PROBLEM.
They aren't supposed to have their sport as their main priority, with academics their annoying obligation on the side.
No, instead, academics are supposed to be their priority, just as it is for non-athletes who are in college.
I have no problem with them having tutors. I don't know how you got that from my post.
The reality though is that many athletes are pushed toward easier majors, for two reasons. One, they (on average) do not have the academic background nor the intelligence to successfully complete degree requirements for most of the majors on campus. And two, they are incredibly busy with sports and have much less time than most students to do their coursework.
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110%er [8047]
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Re: Incorrect. I realize how much time these athletes spend
Jan 4, 2022, 1:14 PM
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What majors do you think are easier?
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110%er [5712]
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Rock Defender [71]
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Re: Incorrect. I realize how much time these athletes spend
Jan 6, 2022, 12:46 PM
[ in reply to Incorrect. I realize how much time these athletes spend ] |
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45 years ago I was in a masters program at Clemson. We came to class and were required to complete a class project. 4 football players. Never, I repeat, never came to class. At the end of the semester their project was to lead a panel discussion of the difficulties of playing football. I asked one if playing football was compatible with college. He said "No". Take it as you will but let's skip the "student-athlete" part.
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110%er [6461]
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All-Pro [690]
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Re: THIS ^^ Clemson isn't UNCheat
Jan 7, 2022, 8:01 PM
[ in reply to THIS ^^ Clemson isn't UNCheat ] |
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No he’s not trolling. Athletes get dibs on enrollment in classes over non-athletic students. Our daughter could’ve graduated in 3yrs but had to fight to get into certain classes she really needed for her major, due to being passed over. Would’ve saved us a few K$$$. Yes, I love Tiger sports but it is what it is as far as preferential treatment. But,,, she did meet her husband in the fall of her Sr year. All worth it. But no, JK isn’t trolling.
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All-In [30764]
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All-In [43989]
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Commissioner [976]
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they had all that extra time in March to study***
Jan 4, 2022, 12:16 AM
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MVP [533]
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All 2 or 3 of them ****
Jan 4, 2022, 2:20 AM
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Legend [17241]
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Re: Clemson men’s basketball has had excellent GPAs and graduation rates under Brownell.
Jan 4, 2022, 12:35 AM
[ in reply to Clemson men’s basketball has had excellent GPAs and graduation rates under Brownell. ] |
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That's fantastic. It has not always been the case with men's basketball. I don't know how transfers in / out are factored into to the graduation statistics but I applaud the Athletic Department in general and especially the teams with the highest graduation rates.
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Orange Blooded [4086]
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Re: Clemson men’s basketball has had excellent GPAs and graduation rates under Brownell.
Jan 25, 2020, 2:25 PM
[ in reply to Clemson men’s basketball has had excellent GPAs and graduation rates under Brownell. ] |
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If you measure the 4/5 year graduation rate of incoming freshman in basketball, it's pathetically bad.
If you are going to take credit for the grad transfers, take the blame for the transfers out.
Stop posting stupid ####.
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All-In [43989]
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So you disagree with the data released by Clemson showing
Jan 4, 2022, 1:00 PM
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that our basketball program under Brownell does an excellent job academically?
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Legend [17520]
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Orange Blooded [2846]
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Scout Team [169]
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Re: Basketball Academics/Graduation Excellent Under Brownell
Jan 4, 2022, 6:01 PM
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Absolutely correct/
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Commissioner [976]
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No student is let in on academics alone
Jan 4, 2022, 12:06 AM
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Extra curricular activities and leadership are important pieces to any application. Our athletes are held to academic standards to get in and I’m fine with that. Most of our young people are far more articulate when they wrote or speak than those from SEC schools not named Vanderbilt.
I’d be fine if we put harder restrictions on our men’s basketball transfers and recruits academically since the team’s only redeeming qualities are that they graduate and they stay out of trouble. Since winning doesn’t matter, I think we should take the best students possible.
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Orange Blooded [3509]
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Re: No student is let in on academics alone
Jan 4, 2022, 10:48 AM
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This may have been true at some point, but academics are pretty much all they look at these days for regular students. There may be exceptions when deciding for the last few spots and/or for honors colleges or closed majors….but overall it’s just metrics (SAT/ACT, class rank, specific high school, high school course rigor). Legacy does seem to matter as well, for better or worse.
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All-In [43989]
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Exactly.
Jan 4, 2022, 1:01 PM
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The poster above you just likes to argue, usually sans facts.
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110%er [8095]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 12:07 AM
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Yes! Every college should do this.
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Orange Blooded [3509]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 12:09 AM
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If things continue down the same road with NIL and portal, I would prefer football and bball be completely divorced from college…form their own club teams. The remaining sports would follow the rule you mentioned…admission first, then try out.
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Varsity [202]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes***
Jan 4, 2022, 11:31 AM
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Varsity [202]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 11:31 AM
[ in reply to Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes ] |
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If things continue down the same road with NIL and portal, I would prefer football and bball be completely divorced from college…form their own club teams. The remaining sports would follow the rule you mentioned…admission first, then try out.
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Associate AD [838]
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Pretty sure they all have to meet the minimum requirements***
Jan 4, 2022, 1:03 AM
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All-In [43989]
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Yes, minimum requirements for athletes.
Jan 4, 2022, 1:02 PM
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Those minimum requirements are nowhere close to what accepted students at Clemson must have.
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Associate AD [838]
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Pretty sure they are exactly the same
Jan 6, 2022, 11:37 PM
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You just don’t get automatically accepted to Clemson with the minimum requirements unless you have something else exceptional because you are competing against all the other applicants. The 40% who get rejected meet the minimum requirements.
It was explained to me this way by a friend in admissions at Stanford one time: they could fill the freshman class with all valedictorians/salutatorians but they don’t do that because they want a diverse population. That’s a dirty word to a lot of dullards, but diversity is what gives a boost to a farm kid from Oklahoma or a child of missionaries. Being the first in a family to go to college means something too. They look at anything and everything for admissions.
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CU Guru [1453]
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I am all for giving a young person a chance.........
Jan 4, 2022, 2:23 AM
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There is no doubt in my mind I was given a chance.
I came from very small South Carolina town. The typical cliche' every body knows every body and their daddy and grand pa. I was probably exposed to an adequate high school education but I put absolutely no effort into it. But some one, some where in CU admissions decided I was worth a chance. I got to meet and know many people at Clemson with a similar story, very small town guys from nothing high schools but given a chance at Clemson University.
Many of these washed out, maybe even the majority. A good many left after a semester or didn't even complete a semester. I realized very early I was in over my head. But I got it sorted, learned what I needed to do and earned a BS in electrical engineering, only because some one gave me a chance.
I will always be grateful for being given the opportunity to be a Clemson man.
So, I am all for giving a young person a chance. The same chance I was given and very grateful for. But there are no short cuts after that. You gotta perform to the Clemson standard, do the work and come out the other side to be a Clemson man.
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All-TigerNet [10602]
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Re: I am all for giving a young person a chance.........
Jan 4, 2022, 5:48 PM
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Sounds a lot like me. I did well enough to graduate, but wish I had exerted more effort. My high school career was adequate, but not much more. Clemson definitely took a flyer when they let me in.
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110%er [9663]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
1
Jan 4, 2022, 6:34 AM
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You lookin to handicap the football program, while also adding to your toolbox of excuses for BrownL?
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All-In [43989]
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No.
Jan 4, 2022, 1:09 PM
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I'm to the point where the mockery we are making of colleges and universities has to stop.
I love Clemson more than I love Clemson football, Clemson basketball, Clemson soccer, etc.
I do not believe accepting a bunch of athletes with subpar academic resumes furthers Clemson's mission as a university.
Sure, it's fun to have good sports teams. But why shouldn't all students at Clemson be accepted based on their academic qualifications? Yes, they should. The only reason you or anyone else thinks they shouldn't be held to the same standard academically is because you love your sports and don't want to entertain any idea that could compromise that.
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Heisman Winner [139853]
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Re: No.
Jan 4, 2022, 1:13 PM
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All-In [43989]
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I agree, college athletics is a sinking ship
Jan 4, 2022, 1:16 PM
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on many levels.
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Orange Blooded [2750]
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You think that's metaphor Clemson football . . .
Jan 6, 2022, 1:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: No. ] |
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under the OP's suggested plan . . . but it's really just a metaphor for society as it is now. Clemson as a university and Clemson as a football program are just secondary victims on the boat, willing to go down rather than jumping off.
We should do what he said, and it would end our football program as we know it, which would suck, but the other option is to follow society off a cliff.
I agree with him . . . I love Clemson more than Clemson football.
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Orange Blooded [2750]
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*FOR** Clemson football, I meant to say****
Jan 6, 2022, 1:59 PM
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d
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Heisman Winner [139853]
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Orange Blooded [2750]
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What then, college football as a whole?
Jan 7, 2022, 10:55 AM
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.
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Orange Blooded [2750]
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**YES**!!!!
Jan 6, 2022, 2:35 PM
[ in reply to No. ] |
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That post was awesome, Judge. Right on. It's a tough pill to swallow, but it's true. You say you love Clemson more than Clemson sports. I couldn't have said it better. I grew up reveling in the fall glory of Clemson football and its triumphs. I would hate to see it suffer b/c of taking a principled stand to be different, but I would prefer it to what's down the road given the trajectory we're on. I really, really, would.
I tip my hat to you for saying something like that, knowing how unpopular it will be. But I agree 100%.
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110%er [7011]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 6:54 AM
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wouldn’t hurt my feelings
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All-In [37573]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 10:42 AM
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What about requiring the families of all Clemson students to make at least $150,000.00 in adjusted gross income?
Silly discussion.
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All-In [43989]
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Why is it silly?
Jan 4, 2022, 1:10 PM
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You don't think it compromises the integrity of a school if it has a subset of students who are nowhere near qualified to be a student there, but are simply there because they can throw a football or shoot a basketball?
You do remember that Clemson University was created as an academic institution, right? That's kind of important.
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Heisman Winner [139853]
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CU Medallion [64961]
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Not unless all other Institutions of Higher Learning were to
Jan 4, 2022, 10:56 AM
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adopt those same guidelines. I am not interested in something that would put Clemson at a competitive disadvantage.
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Orange Blooded [2313]
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Re: Not unless all other Institutions of Higher Learning were to
Jan 4, 2022, 11:07 AM
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Why not go back to the equivalent of the old ACC rule of having 800 on the SAT to qualify to go to school. That is the true reason the Coots left the conference. I do not know the educational equivalent level of all our athletes, but the constant requirements for their attending class and Vickery Hall can only improve them in areas they may have been short of in High School. With the ongoing NIL money in play, they can use some sound training in handling that kind of income at that young of age. At 18, I would not have done that well.
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Orange Blooded [4444]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 11:02 AM
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I see real progress in Brads program. With that said after defeating VA by 17 pts at their place, it would not surprise me for us to lay an egg and let VA beat us tonight. If that does not happen then we ate beginning to show real progress. Go Tigers Beat the Whahoos.
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Orange Blooded [4086]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 11:05 AM
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How is your pulse so high when all you post is stupid crap?
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110%er [6825]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 11:25 AM
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Yes. But I always think it should be a blind admission for any and all students as far as admissions is concerned. From there, you THEN apply any benefits based on a known attribute items.
I also think it should be a state-by-state item for public schools that you apply uniformly (common app) to all schools in a state system and based on the metrics receive various incentives based on one's competitiveness/attributes.
Thus depending on the students, the compensation may vary based on the school. Thus better students will get more incentives across more schools. Even a mid-level student might get admitted into a good school but would have more incentives to attend a smaller school, etc. For example, you might get into Clemson and a small scholly but you could also have a full ride to Winthrop etc. Heck, this would also solve some other social-justice items as the compensation is applied (not access) post admission. It it means that only short nerdy, slightly round folks get into Clemson, it won't hurt the basketball product.
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Rock Defender [71]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 12:24 PM
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If something could be done for the whole conference I’d be OK with it. CU could only compete with the conference teams or other conferences with similar rules. Even the SoCon would kill them.
The whole FBS championship thing is blowing up so who cares? The only contenders will be those with lots and lots of rich, crazy and unscrupulous boosters who will fund the fake NIL contracts. I wish the ACC and Big 10 would just walk away.
While we’re at it, get rid of scholarships. Scholarship football is slavery, right? So the only solution is to abolish it.
Crowds would drop to 70,000 or so at CU games so traffic would be easier.
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Walk-On [140]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 12:39 PM
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The ACC tried this in the 60s. It was a horrible idea and needlessly held the conferences athletic programs back. In fact Clemson won back to back conference championships in 66 and 67 without winning a single non conference game or receiving a bowl invite. And the issue was one of the main reasons that South Carolina left the conference. Frank Howard’s book by Virgil Perkins talks about it and is a great read.
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All-In [43989]
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Why was it a horrible idea for academics to be the focus
Jan 4, 2022, 1:13 PM
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when making admission decisions?
Oh that's right, it was a horrible idea from a sports perspective.
I'm looking at this through the lens of the university, not the athletic coaches.
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Oculus Spirit [79934]
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I think it’s fair but I don’t see it ever happening
Jan 4, 2022, 12:41 PM
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because we wouldn’t get enough elite players.
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All-In [43989]
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I agree, it's a pipe dream because
Jan 4, 2022, 1:15 PM
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big colleges and their alumni and fans love their sports too much.
There is too much money, status, and pride associated with having good athletic teams.
Not surprisingly, most of the responses here are against the idea because people would rather have a good football team than have true academic integrity.
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Legend [17241]
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Re: I agree, it's a pipe dream because
Jan 4, 2022, 6:55 PM
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You do realize that academics benefit greatly from excellence in the athletics department. Have you seen the increase in student population and all the building on and off campus since football become elite? Boosters love to support a winning institution both academically and athletically.
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 2:05 PM
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I'm not interested in winning the Hi IQ Bowl
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Rock Defender [71]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 3:01 PM
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Well of course not. You're a Clemson fan. But the point is that pretty soon you won't be winning anyway unless you come up with a bunch of crazy millionaires to fund your fake NIL program. And soon the SEC will probably abolish all academic requirements (in the name of equity). So unless you want to go full on sleazy, you won't be able to compete. So the choice may end up being 100% sleazy and being in the playoffs, being 70% sleazy and being number 40 or just starting over with integrity and not having to put up with the ########. Sure, Carolina will go full sleazy and STILL lose by 30 week after week because they just won't have enough money for a pro payroll.
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CU Guru [1207]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 5:12 PM
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Surely you jest.
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Scout Team [178]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 5:19 PM
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If you wanted to have a FB team like say ....Duke.
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Legend [16213]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 5:42 PM
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Against it, and I in no way view having less rigorous academic admission standards for student-athletes to enroll as being against the role of a college's mission, Clemson certainly included. I appreciate the role that college athletics, from Power 5 to DII, provides the many thousands of young men and women to pursue not only their athletic dreams, but an opportunity for advancement in life in other areas that may not have been available to many of them otherwise outside of those special physical skillsets they possess.
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 5:50 PM
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All for it. Never going to happen. This policy does not even work and the middle school level. Schools will always lower the standards for a winner.
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Scout Team [169]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 4, 2022, 5:56 PM
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The question seems to always be whether we merit education or athetics. Preferagly both and in unison.
I have never been able to grasp why it is even allowed that the reverse in application can take preference. My son was a golf grant in aid student, and from the 5 college offers he received, 3 of the 5 required the academic application before the scholarship was awarded. I won't mention the shools, but I was always impressed with the 3 and it was the one of his primary interest that he chose for academics first and then golf.
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Associate AD [848]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 7, 2022, 11:40 AM
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I think alot of kids don't come from homes that have and educational perspective. Many come with only the dream of going pro and very few make it. Alabama had a banner year last year with 10 or 11 players. Most colleges don't send anyone to the pro's yet here we are talking about paying players instead of making sure they are qualified students.
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Freshman [-79]
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Only if there are universal standards for everyone and everyone has to follow them.***
Jan 4, 2022, 6:04 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 6, 2022, 3:01 PM
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Associate AD [848]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 7, 2022, 11:37 AM
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Exactly correct. If all colleges did it it would work. then the NFL could go create it's own farm league with the rest.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 7, 2022, 11:00 AM
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It would be a terrible idea.
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Associate AD [848]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 7, 2022, 11:36 AM
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I would say...say hellow to Clemson becoming like Wake Forest or Harvard.
Any school that holds academic standards for football players will settle to the mediocre.
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Orange Blooded [4024]
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No. This a solution seeking a problem
Jan 7, 2022, 2:35 PM
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If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
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CU Medallion [53716]
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I almost posted that yesterday and held back. But, since you
Jan 7, 2022, 7:37 PM
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mentioned it.....The school Presidents can take control. They can say, this is an amateur association, and we realize that the Congress has washed its hands of the situation, but we are hereby going to return to the model of the student athlete. There will be a minimum standard which is in line with the overall student population. If potential athletes feel this is unfair, you are welcome to submit your talents to the professional teams in the sport that you play. You see, two can play this game. The tail is wagging the dog right now. And if the dog does not get control back, the golden goose is going to be killed for all future players. College fan bases are made up of alumni,(I relize there are many non_alumni fans that are donors too, but I would bet the majority are alumni) and they are not going to put up with players playing them for a fool. They have an affinity for the school that is deeper in my opinion. They will stop donating and attending. Heck, Qwalk and Kelly today were discussing the possibility of a player enterring the portal, but the school still allowing him to go to class while he or she decides what is in his best interest. Only a fool would keep someone on the payroll, knowing they were looking around for a better opportunity.
JMHO.
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110%er [6461]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 7, 2022, 7:43 PM
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Yep, and Join the Ivy league because that would be the only schools we would be able to compete with.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 8, 2022, 7:46 AM
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NO
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Starter [398]
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Re: How would you feel about Clemson requiring all of its athletes
Jan 8, 2022, 7:54 AM
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I’m sure this will stoke some up but the challenge is the admission standard for the general student population also considers available slots in degree programs and arbitrary “academic” numbers that some even deemed “not needed” during CoVid.
If you’re giving athletes special consideration in any case, why attempt to be deceptive about the standards when they’re never going to be truly evenly applied?
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