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Orange Blooded [2669]
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The detractors truly are hilarious.....
Mar 29, 2022, 11:18 AM
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We had Barnes who was great. He left after 4 years and we got Larry shyatt for 5 years.
Oliver Purnell was apparently great. After he went to the tourney 3 times and lost in the first round, he bolted for DePaul. We then hired brownell.
Brownell has been here for 12 years and apparently sucks at coaching and can't recruit.
So in 27 seasons, we have had about 8 good years. We only have 5 NCAA tourney wins (2 under Barnes and 3 under BB) Do you really want to go down that path again? First we have to hire a good coach. That is not an easy thing to do. If that coach is successful, what are the chances we keep him?
Like I've said a million times... brownell has to produce next year. I wouldn't have been mad if we fired him after this year. This notion that the problem with Clemson basketball is only on the coach is ridiculous. We MUST make improvements to our program such as facilities, NIL, coaches and support staff to be a consistent winner. I don't understand how some people don't get that.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: The detractors truly are hilarious.....
Mar 29, 2022, 11:26 AM
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On the flip side of that, Clemson used to be a revolving door for coaches in basketball.
Administration sticking with Brownell for 12 years could be helpful to making the next coach feel comfortable that he doesn't have to leave to stay ahead of the ax if he has a down season at Clemson.
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Legend [16240]
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Agree that we have shown very impressive loyalty to our
Mar 29, 2022, 11:52 AM
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basketball coach, and that's a solid asset for any prospective coach considering coming here in the future.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: The detractors truly are hilarious.....
Mar 29, 2022, 5:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: The detractors truly are hilarious..... ] |
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He got a facility renovation planned and executed entirely under his tenure. There has been a measurable but extremely modest improvement in actual performance. The facility game is constant and zero sum. I can already hear Brad’s apparatchik revving up the “muh facilities” complaints. I’m pretty sure no one in my lifetime has left Clemson to stay “ahead of the ax”. Larry is the only coach in that time who was fired for performance issues and I don’t think anyone (even those of us that liked Larry - myself included) felt he was treated unfairly. Ironically Brownell’s performance adjusted for SOS is closer to Shyatt’s than any of his predecessors. But apparently there is no standard he can be held to and no flim-flam argument that can’t be used for retaining him. Everyone with any skin in Clemson’s game should be mortified that we’re letting a single athlete hold our 2nd largest revenue sport hostage in an era when a player can leave at any time with no repercussion. And this is precisely what our novice AD has done in publicly saying PJ Hall wields such outsize influence over our program. If anyone on the BOT was paying attention that crap should have been walked back faster than a President Biden statement on regime change. The Brownell era is already a punchline but the joke is getting uglier and meaner by the day.
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Orange Blooded [3625]
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110%er [6825]
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Re: The detractors truly are hilarious.....
Mar 29, 2022, 11:28 AM
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Meh, I am in the "Go Brownell crowd". He is a very good coach, particularly at over-performing with what he has available in one of the toughest environments. We are only 1 year removed from the NCAA so do we cut resources?
My thing that I can't understand is when some thinkers say a coach has to "make it" before we give him resources and then expects to build a program as if we are a basketball destination. What top candidate will want that? And then some push expectations that even UNC has failed to accomplish in the past 5 years. It is disconnected.
Saying Brad is/is not the direction we want to go is fine. My thing is don't expect Calhoun Corners dining when you are scrounging the coach cushions for a taco bell budget. And you know, if that Taco Bell is that tasty, you are going to be regretting it later.... right Ellis?
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All-In [44030]
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Bingo.***
Mar 29, 2022, 11:32 PM
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Legend [16058]
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We didn't make the NCAAs this year or last....
Mar 29, 2022, 11:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: The detractors truly are hilarious..... ] |
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How is that one year removed? Also when we made it we were quickly escorted out by a lower team.
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All-In [44030]
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We did make the NCAA Tournament last year.
Mar 30, 2022, 10:34 AM
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It was on March 19, 2021.
That is one year removed from our last NCAA Tournament game.
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All-In [40100]
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I would guess that only a few think coaching change solves everything.
Mar 29, 2022, 11:38 AM
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I agree we need more investment, but not going to chase a bad investment. There needs to be both. Offer a little more with the incentive that improvements would beget more investment.
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All-In [40767]
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If Brownell makes it to the Big Dance
Mar 29, 2022, 11:40 AM
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two more times in the last 12 years hardly anybody would be talking negatively about him. We know the bar is not that high at Clemson because of what we’ve done historically. However, to think that we aren’t funded well enough to at least make a field of 68 teams every 3 years or so is outrageous. Brownell has had 12 years. 3 tournament appearances. Once with Purnell’s players and once in a Covid year. Any rational person sees this as unacceptable.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: If Brownell makes it to the Big Dance
Mar 29, 2022, 2:20 PM
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If we make the tourney next year, it will be 3 in the last 6 years... will that be acceptable to you?
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All-In [40767]
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I’ve already seen enough.
Mar 29, 2022, 5:25 PM
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It will take more than just a berth in the tournament to restore my confidence in BB. I’d wager that many feel the same.
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All-In [32644]
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I feel the same way.***
Mar 29, 2022, 5:43 PM
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Orange Blooded [2847]
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Well You're In The Minority
Mar 30, 2022, 10:55 AM
[ in reply to I’ve already seen enough. ] |
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So you makes the tournament next year, you still want to fire. What if he wins one game in the tournament? Two games in the tournament? Want to fire then. 18.3 wins per season in 12 years at Clemson. One (1) losing season in 12 years at Clemson. An overall ACC winning percentage that is close to .500, better than any other Clemson basketball coach in history. Actually wins some ACC road games. Most of you people bashed Clemson by saying had a losing record in a down league. Well that down league put three in the Elite Eight and two in the Final Four. The ACC will always be the standard for college basketball. Coach Brownell has worked hard to make the program better, raise money for the program. And some of you idiots want to show him the door. I personally hope he shuts up the lunatic fringe next year. And then what are y'all going to do. Y'all will do an athletic department search to find the next coach who needs to be fired. It's always the same thing. Lose a game, get fired. It's tiresome. You want a great basketball program. Try supporting the program instead of bashing it all the time. Nobody wants to win more than Coach Brownell. Nobody. TigerNet is always complaining about football recruits reading negative stuff about Dabo on the message boards. What do you think basketball recruits are thinking? I am ready for basketball season to be over so the lunatic fringe will stop its basketball coaching search.
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All-In [44030]
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^^ THIS!***
Mar 30, 2022, 12:53 PM
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All-In [30788]
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i "had" Ellis , Barnes, and Shyatt when i was in school
Mar 29, 2022, 11:47 AM
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i just MISSED the duo of doom.
I bet those were fun times.
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110%er [7882]
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Five NCAA wins? We have been to the sweet 16 and
Mar 29, 2022, 11:51 AM
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the elite 8 once. I think your stats are off a little.
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All-In [44030]
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I think you need to reread the OP’s post.
Mar 29, 2022, 11:35 PM
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He was discussing the last 27 years. Doesn’t include the Elite Eight season in the early 80s.
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Legend [16058]
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Well we will never have to worry about seeing the Elite 8
Mar 29, 2022, 11:50 PM
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under Brownell.
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All-In [44030]
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We didn’t have to worry about it with Rick Barnes, Cliff Ellis, or Oliver Purnell either.
Mar 30, 2022, 10:36 AM
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It’s almost as if there are longstanding issues with Clemson basketball that supersede who the coach is.
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110%er [5014]
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That is exactly correct....
Mar 30, 2022, 10:55 AM
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and why we'll have to find some NIL money immediately to jump-start the player talent pool. Money is what is going to be about the only thing that will get the talent to Clemson. Once we have it, if Brownell can coach them to success, then he should keep his job. If not, he needs to go and we'll need to keep paying NIL money to have necessary talent to attract the next coach.
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All-Pro [650]
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Re: The detractors truly are hilarious.....
Mar 29, 2022, 11:56 AM
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The enemy of excellent is good. Case in point, Mark Richt is a great man and a good football coach but he wasn't going to win a National Championship at UGA. He would occasionally pull off a surprise victory in the SEC championship but more often finished with a 10-2 record and missed any chance at a Natty. A better than average coach (sound familiar). UGA could have continued down this path but sometimes it is necessary to part with good in order to achieve excellent. Another example was Lenny Wilkins in the NBA. He was content with winning 75% of his games but didn't like to coach superstars. At one time he had the most wins of any coach but never a championship.
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All-Pro [650]
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Re: The detractors truly are hilarious.....
Mar 29, 2022, 11:59 AM
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Tommy Bowden was 72-45 at Clemson before some unknown WR coach was chosen to replace him. His last full season was his best record.
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All-In [44030]
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Except there are some notable differences between UGA football and Clemson basketball.
Mar 29, 2022, 11:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: The detractors truly are hilarious..... ] |
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UGA football has a great tradition, including conference championships and a national championship when Richt was hired. It was funded very well and was also the top priority of the administration and fans.
Clemson basketball has none of those things.
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Legend [16058]
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Also Brownell isn't half the BB coach Richt was in Football***
Mar 29, 2022, 11:51 PM
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Legend [15800]
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Not a detractor, I'm in the "it's just time for a change"
Mar 29, 2022, 11:59 AM
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crowd...nothing against Brad and I wish him luck. If our AD thinks he deserves to be here then I'm fine with it.
However, if he called and asked, hire a good mid major coach and see what they can
do in 5 years. If they bolt it means we probably did ok under them...then we hire another. Will we do better...who knows, but at least it will be something different. I believe 12 years is long enough.
As far as facilities, we should have torn down Littlejohn, too much lipstick on a pig and they start looking like a pig again. Should have built a state of the art facility along Hartwell w/ a glass facade.
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All-In [25946]
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Re: Not a detractor, I'm in the "it's just time for a change"
Mar 29, 2022, 12:03 PM
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Whenever Brownell does leave, I think a younger coach with enthusiasm and excitement is what we need. Just my opinion. Brownell seems to have run out of both.
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1st Rounder [634]
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Re: Not a detractor, I'm in the "it's just time for a change"
Mar 29, 2022, 8:47 PM
[ in reply to Not a detractor, I'm in the "it's just time for a change" ] |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this qualify as a complete demolition of LJC? This is a public university arena being torn down and rebuilt with "public funds" and some private donor money. Show me any other university arena that can rival or exceed an NBA facility (which seems to be what you're asking for).
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CU Medallion [64570]
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Frankly...
Mar 29, 2022, 12:21 PM
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I don't care how much money or resources the University pumps into the program. After twelve years, it is abundantly clear that CBB is not the coach who can lead Clemson on that path forward.
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110%er [9685]
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^^^Correct. ^^^***
1
Mar 29, 2022, 2:38 PM
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Orange Blooded [3625]
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Re: Frankly...
Mar 29, 2022, 6:20 PM
[ in reply to Frankly... ] |
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Jay Wright of Villanova .. go big time for a big time program.
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All-In [44030]
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He would absolutely want to come to Clemson to be our coach.
Mar 30, 2022, 12:50 PM
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Who would want to coach at Villanova? Their football team isn’t even in FBS and their tailgating is lame.
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Legend [18836]
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Re: The detractors truly are hilarious.....
Mar 29, 2022, 2:23 PM
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Recruiting is definitely a big drawback for Brownell. Not sure we would be having this conversation if he would have closed the deal on Zion Williamson. Even better if he would have identified Ja Morant. Local kids that chose elsewhere.
It is understandable for a coach to struggle here. We are the South Carolina of basketball. We have nothing as far as tradition. We are in a conference where everyone has a better history in basketball. It hurts that kids see us the way they do. A middle to last place team. No one wants to play for a team that always loses.
After a very long 12 years though it would be nice to be excited about the possibilities of a basketball team. Even if we had a decent year going, you still always waiting for the other shoe to fall and for us to lose in the first round of the tourney.
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All-In [31240]
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Re: The detractors truly are hilarious.....
Mar 29, 2022, 5:41 PM
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We are not exactly raking in 5 stars in football with all our bells and whistles so not real sure how that would affect Brad’s recruiting efforts. If Brad stays I feel he should change some assistant coaches that could possibly breathe some life into the program. Take a pay cut to get a few extra things that you feel will help. If it pays dividends he will be compensated I feel sure.
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Freshman [-79]
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You're darn right he needs to produce next year.
Mar 29, 2022, 6:19 PM
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He's the 38th highest paid coach in America. Let that sink in. I think maybe 1 year in 12 we actually finished with an RPI above 38.
Do you think 2 tournament wins in 12 years warrants the 38th highest salary in the country? Am I a "detractor" because my answer is an emphatic, "NO"?
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Orange Blooded [2591]
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I like Brownell but
Mar 29, 2022, 11:23 PM
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He’s had enough time here. Time’s up. He’s had plenty of time and opportunity but honestly there’s no excitement around the program. He doesn’t have the personality to make you excited about the program. We need the Dabo of basketball in here. Upbeat, positive, great personality. A leader. Someone who can get the fans interested and excited again. I don’t recall anything like that since we had Purnell. I will see Brownell again in 3 weeks at the prowl and growl. I always enjoy his comments there but I know he has to dread coming every year because of the lack of continual success with the basketball team and he’s sitting there with Dabo who’s getting most of the admiration. I wish him the best but it’s time for a new coach.
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All-In [44030]
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Most of these people are either football fans only
Mar 29, 2022, 11:31 PM
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or football fans mostly.
They might say they care a lot about basketball. They might even think they do. But if they really cared that much, they would find it inexcusable that we spend so much less on our men’s basketball program than most other ACC teams.
Evidently, they expect our basketball coaches to work miracles here, because we are Clemson and deserve to be super successful in every sport regardless of how much (or little) we put into it.
I have much more respect for the fans who just admit that they mostly care about football. At least they are being honest.
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Legend [16902]
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The good old strawman cometh again***
Mar 30, 2022, 10:27 AM
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Legend [16058]
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What are our expectations for Basketball? If BB's 12 yrs...
Mar 29, 2022, 11:47 PM
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is all we expect then I'm sadly disappointed in my Alma Mater.
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Orange Blooded [2591]
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Football is by far my favorite sport
Mar 30, 2022, 12:13 AM
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And always has been. However, when it comes to my Clemson tigers I want them to be successful in every sport. I feel we should really put everything we can into football, basketball and baseball to make them all winners. I went to the baseball game tonight at Winthrop although baseball is not particularly interesting to me. I make an effort to support Clemson in sports I don’t even like.
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Orange Blooded [3496]
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We have become chicken fans in basketball...........
Mar 30, 2022, 1:02 PM
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it really puzzles me as to why people constantly want to give BB another year. The same mindset was why Frank got 10 years in columbia. At some point you have to realize the guy has done all he can do. Stop making excuses and find another coach.
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