We are just whiffing on good OL..... cannot figure it out!

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I agree.

Jul 1, 2018, 9:19 PM

The main reason we probably haven't had this enormous success with OL in the pros is because we haven't recruited a ton of prospects who were projected for the pros in the first place.

That does not mean that you can't potentially develop players for the pros. We do so at every position.

So what gives at OL? Well, first of all, we HAVE had guys go pro at OL...just not that many. Well, a closer look at who dominates in this category:

Notre Dame (63)
USC (58)
Nebraska and Penn State (57 apiece)
Michigan (50)
Boston College (48)
Oklahoma (46)
Ohio State (45)
Iowa (44)
Wisconsin (43)

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000551619

Assuming the above to be true, Alabama, UGA, or no other SEC program can claim to have a long-standing historical dominance for placing OL in the NFL.

Over the past 10 years?

Alabama does have the most: 12
Runners up at 10 ea: Florida and Wisconsin

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/23316209/college-programs-most-nfl-draft-picks-last-10-years

But notice what it says about Alabama: "Despite how dominant Alabama's offensive lines have been under Nick Saban's rule, the Tide have seen only five first-rounders come from this position in the past 10 years."

I know first-round selections are not generally reserved for OL, but it is still noteworthy.

How much does progression to the NFL have to do with coaching? Talent? Strength/Conditioning?

Well, strength/conditioning seems to have prepared every other position at Clemson to proceed to the NFL, so I don't buy that that is a problem at Clemson at all.

Coaching? Last I looked, we seemed to have been able to play against the best of the best in the college ranks. No, we haven't won them all, and, yes, Alabama seemed to have had their way last year in the playoff game, but I don't think ANY team would have fared well against Bama last year when they played like they played against us.

Talent? Let's look at the last ~10 years (since Dabo became head coach):

2009: 2 4-star OL recruits: Brandon Thomas and JK Jay. Thomas went to the NFL. JK Jay never played due to injuring his back. Who was the coach? Since 2011: Caldwell; also, consider that Dabo became head coach right before this small recruiting class. That impacts future classes as well...maybe negatively at first...but then positively.

2010: David Beasley, Reid Webster, Kalon Davis, Gifford Timothy...all 3-star recruits. None were drafted. But should that be altogether surprising to a recruit? Although there are plenty of former 3-star recruits of all positions in the NFL, that does not necessarily mean that they were projected to be in the NFL, if we put any stock in the rankings. Per Rivals: "5.7-5.5 All Region Selection: considered among the region’s top prospects and generally among the nation’s top 800-850 prospects overall, a potential All-Conference candidate and a player deemed to have mid to low-end pro potential and ability to impact at the college level."

2011: Spencer Region, Shaq Anthony, Isaiah Battle, Ryan Norton...all 3-star recruits. See above. Now, we all know Battle was a beast, but his behavior was the problem.

2012: Battle (see above), Oliver Jones, Jay Guillermo, and Patrick Destefano...all 3-star recruits. Jones and Destefano did not even stay the whole time, both due to health reasons, IIRC. Guillermo did quite well and had some opportunities in the NFL, but he did not underachieve.

2013: Tyrone Crowder, 4 star, and Maverick Morris, 3-star. Crowder is one who we can probably say should have made it to the NFL, but personal commitment does play into the equation. As we know, he struggled with his weight. He was a key OL for us, though, and he is a Tiger and therefore special to me! But NFL-wise, he likely could have worked harder and gotten drafted.

2014: Justin Falcinelli and Taylor Hearn...both 3-star recruits. Falcinelli is still with us, and Hearn left early to give it a try. Hearn did not get the results he wanted, but, again, he did not underachieve.

2015: Mitch Hyatt, 4-star (should have been 5-star) and Jake Fruhmorgen, 4-star; and Zach Giella, Noah Green...3-star recruits. Hyatt is still with us (yay!), and he is expected to be drafted, most likely pretty high. Fruhmorgen left the program. Green no longer is with us as well. Giella has been a great backup, and he has not underachieved.

2016: Sean Pollard and John Simpson, 4-star recruits; Tremayne Anchrum and Chandler Reeves, 3-star recruits; Cade Stewart, 2-star recruit. Nothing suggests that any of these players are underachieving. Anchrum seems to be overachieving. No one knows how the draft will go.

2017: Matt Bockhorst, 4-star; Blake Vinson and Noah DeHond...3-star recruits. It's way too early to draw any conclusions on these players, but we do know DeHone was wanted by Bama, and he absolutely has the measurables.

2018: Jackson Carmen, 5-star; Jordan McFadden, 3-star. It's way too early to draw any conclusions on these players as well, but it is hard to imagine that Carmen, if he works hard, won't be drafted. McFadden has the opportunity as well, but if we are drawing conclusions by projections, he wouldn't necessarily be underachieving if he does not make it to the NFL.

In 2018, we were very much in it with some other big-time OL recruits. I won't rehash some of the other schools' antics that were going on behind the scenes.

It is also possible that there needs to be an improvement in Clemson's RECRUITING efforts for OL, but the above does not support that Clemson as a program or Caldwell as a coach underachieves in getting his players to the NFL. I don't have time or the desire to go back and list the equivalent OL recruits for Bama, Florida, or Wisconsin, but Florida had approximately 16 recruits rated 4-star or higher in the same time frame; Wisconsin did not have many at all, so they are absolutely one to study when it comes to OL recruits. Not sure if it is their coaching of WHERE they got their 3-star OL recruits (i.e., what region).

I feel sure that Dabo, who is huge on recruiting, knows if/where/how there needs to be an improvement in OL recruiting. Maybe he can adopt the Wisconsin formula, not sure. But the narrative that Clemson hasn't put OL in the league just isn't reasonable when considering the historical prospective talent level of our recruits. There are a lot of other programs not on the "all-everything" list of putting OL in the league.

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This is what he said back in May. He and his mom came down but he said he really wanted to hang out with players and get their perspective on football and academics. Here’s what he said:

As Hornibrook works toward his decision, he is looking to find the school that best fits him as both a player and person.

“I’m looking for great people, just being around people that are like me and people that I can see myself hanging out with for the next four years,”

Sounds like he was comfortable at Stanford. It kinda sounds like he just didn’t get the right feeling here and maybe didn’t get a chance to hang with the guys. Sounds a little like we slow played him or got in late.

He also said his brother being at Wisconsin wasn’t a factor because they’d only be together for 6 months. He also said he wanted to make a decision by late June... and we were trying to get him to the cookout. Oh well.

Well dang

Before anyone else jumps on me, same happened last year

Re: We are just whiffing on good OL..... cannot figure it out!

We will sign as many elite OL as we want.

Re: Well dang

Well I knew he was a good lineman

Re: Well I knew he was a good lineman

I'm sure coaches recruiting against us are using this

I agree.

Ooops, let me clarify the above

Re: Ooops, let me clarify the above

I don't pretend to be a football expert,

great post, thanks

Our failure to put OL in the NFL is historic, not recent at all.

I agree, our coaches are going to have to work hard on OL

Re: Our failure to put OL in the NFL is historic, not recent at all.

Re: Our failure to put OL in the NFL is historic, not recent at all.

Re: Well dang

you are correct

Re: Well dang

I know Hornibrook wouldn’t tip his cap

Re: I know Hornibrook wouldn’t tip his cap

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