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All-TigerNet [11478]
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My take on the Brownell decision
Mar 16, 2022, 12:34 PM
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I would like to start in the most obvious place possible by saying that Brownell's job is to win basketball games.
He is not winning enough games to keep the fans happy, and he is not winning enough games to reach what should be the goal of every D1 basketball team which is to make the NCAA tournament.
Here is the dilemma.
Neff's job is not to win basketball games. His job is also not to find the coach who will the most basketball games.
Neff's job is to run Clemson athletics like a business and to create the greatest profit margins possible.
Men's basketball is a revenue sport and supports other athletic programs at Clemson. For this reason, Neff has to make sure the program keeps bringing a net profit.
The huge question that Neff has to answer at the moment has nothing to do with finding a coach who will win more games. His question is whether or not bringing in a new coach who wins a few more basketball games is going to offset the losses caused by paying Brownell's buyout and having to sign a new coach to what would likely be a larger contract than Brownell (if you want to win more games).
He has to calculate how long it would take for a potential increase in wins and ticket sales to recover the money lost during the transition.
My guess is that fan apathy isn't hurting the bottom line number in the way that most think it does.
Tickets sales declining slightly isn't going to make a major dent in the profit margin because we are talking a difference of only a few hundred reasonably priced tickets. This isn't the same way that fans can speak to an AD in football by only filling half of an 80,000 seat stadium to voice displeasure.
Neff keeping Brownell doesn't mean he is ok with where Clemson basketball stands at the moment. It just simply means that there is nothing that he can do with the current contract that wouldn't hurt several other sports at Clemson through the loss of money coming from the men's basketball program at Clemson.
Keeping Brownell is a DRad problem because of the current contract structure.
Hopefully Neff can do his job well and can restructure the contract for an extension with a reduction in buyout that shows that Brownell is being pushed to do his job better as well.
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All-Pro [690]
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Very well reasoned take. Agree on all counts.
Mar 16, 2022, 12:52 PM
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It's always a numbers game.
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CU Medallion [55311]
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Re: Very well reasoned take. Agree on all counts.
Mar 16, 2022, 1:10 PM
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Yes, and nothing hurts those number more than Tigers fans closing their check books on "what ever" of our top 3 sports that has been mediocre at best with the same HC for 10+ years bc, 10 years is way more than enough time to see if a HC is capable of winning the ACC at least once, and finishing a season in the top 3 several times, Brownell has done none of that in the 12 years he's been HC of Clemson men's basketball program . Replace Brownell, or let them put cardboard fans in LittleJohn, and let them find another way to afford his 2+ million dollar salary a year that gives Clemson mediocre basketball year in and year out like he's done for 12 L O N G years!!!!
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Very well reasoned take. Agree on all counts.
Mar 16, 2022, 1:37 PM
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Good luck finding Clemson fans who will pull their football donations as ransom for getting rid of Brownell if that is what you are suggesting.
Also I think you will have a hard time finding Clemson fans who only donate to basketball, so losing those donations isn't going to reduce the overall pot very much either.
The change has to come from place that is financially responsible from a buyout standpoint.
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: Very well reasoned take. Agree on all counts.
Mar 16, 2022, 2:01 PM
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You are right. And I doubt that this is that year. Neff is probably negotiating a contract extension with a reduced buy-out. While that is the correct financial decision, it means at least one more year of pathetically average basketball.
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110%er [7948]
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Re: Very well reasoned take. Agree on all counts.
Mar 16, 2022, 1:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: Very well reasoned take. Agree on all counts. ] |
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Yes, and nothing hurts those number more than Tigers fans closing their check books on "what ever" of our top 3 sports that has been mediocre at best with the same HC for 10+ years bc, 10 years is way more than enough time to see if a HC is capable of winning the ACC at least once, and finishing a season in the top 3 several times, Brownell has done none of that in the 12 years he's been HC of Clemson men's basketball program . Replace Brownell, or let them put cardboard fans in LittleJohn, and let them find another way to afford his 2+ million dollar salary a year that gives Clemson mediocre basketball year in and year out like he's done for 12 L O N G years!!!!
Have we ever won the ACC? We have seen a number of coaches but have any actually won the championship? If not they why do you think changing coaches will result in winning a championship?
Its like your engine is running rough in your truck and you keep changing spark plugs over and over expecting the next set of plugs to solve the problem.
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CU Guru [1778]
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Re: Very well reasoned take. Agree on all counts.
Mar 16, 2022, 1:46 PM
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We aren't looking for a guy that is limited by our historical accomplishments.
The coach is the engine of the program consuming the fuel/funding. Players are the Wheels carrying us all. You're right we don't need to change a spark plug we need a new engine.
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CU Guru [1157]
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CU Medallion [55311]
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Re: Very well reasoned take. Agree on all counts.
Mar 17, 2022, 9:02 AM
[ in reply to Re: Very well reasoned take. Agree on all counts. ] |
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Absolutely, changing the plugs, and adding a fresh coat of paint will never cause it to run better. The AD has to be serious about finding a HC that can win anywhere they go, and pay them to build a winning BB program at Clemson. Do that, and the McDonald all Americans will be lining to play in LittleJohn with the cheer of rabid Clemson fans packing the house at home, and buying up the away game tickets, and the revenue will catch up to the price of that type of HC!!! You have to crawl before you walk, and walk before you can run. But if you never get out of the chair, none of the above will ever happen!!!
Message was edited by: allinallorangeallthetime52®
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1st Rounder [603]
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Oculus Spirit [96812]
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You make some good points..
Mar 16, 2022, 12:59 PM
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whale done
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Oculus Spirit [80023]
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I agree but if Neff doesn’t nip it in the bud, soon then
Mar 16, 2022, 1:20 PM
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he’ll have fans calling for his job as well as brownell’s.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: I agree but if Neff doesn’t nip it in the bud, soon then
Mar 16, 2022, 1:33 PM
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I would like to see a mutual restructuring as I mentioned.
After the 2020 football season, everybody thought Michigan was going to fire Jim Harbaugh.
Instead they extended his contract but greatly reduced his buyout which effectively let him know that he had one season left to fix his problems.
Obviously he fixed his problems and got a major upgrade in contract after this season.
I would not mind seeing something very similar done with Brownell.
Give him a couple more years to make sure his contract is long enough to recruit, but make sure that the buyout money is almost nonexistent (obviously there will be some buyout left) so he knows that a quality performance next season is the only thing that will keep him around.
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Team Captain [494]
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Re: I agree but if Neff doesn’t nip it in the bud, soon then
Mar 17, 2022, 4:52 AM
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The idea of a restructuring makes a lot of sense for a first year AD
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All-In [30766]
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i cant agree with this
Mar 16, 2022, 2:33 PM
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saying that Brownell's job is to win basketball games.
or this
He is not winning enough games to keep the fans happy, and he is not winning enough games to reach what should be the goal of every D1 basketball team which is to make the NCAA tournament.
I know i'm stupid and should bow down to the almighty dollar ... but in my mind schools are still schools. Sports provide a way for kids to get an education.. the money is secondary.
Wining is fun .. but i would never trade wins for an academic sandal. I would never trade the Quality of my Clemson degree for a bigger TV contract. IF i was a Harvard grad i would absolutely be content with watching a bunch of 3foot nothing athletes with specs of athletics ability play each other.
I would much rather lose the right way than win the wrong way. Players come and go, coaches come and go, seasons come and go. My Clemson degree will be with me forever.
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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It's not a binary choice.***
Mar 16, 2022, 3:22 PM
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: i cant agree with this
Mar 17, 2022, 9:49 AM
[ in reply to i cant agree with this ] |
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I agree that there is a certain way that Clemson expects and demands for its coaches to win games, but the short version of the coach's purpose is to win.
The next coach would have the same standards for behavior and academic achievement, so comparing those aspects of the program is unnecessary.
That is why the decision moves to who will win the most games for a basketball coach, and for the AD the decision is finding the optimal situation for the program to make the most money.
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CU Guru [1143]
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Re: i cant agree with this
Mar 17, 2022, 11:00 AM
[ in reply to i cant agree with this ] |
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I agree with your line of thinking and keeping the big picture in mind. I don't think anyone can unilaterally disagree with College Hoops being the most corrupt of all the NCAA sports. There is definitely a reason for caution with any new coach.
I think the best way to handle this situation is with 'expectation-setting' coming out of Neff and CBB.
I know CBB cannot just come out and say to recruits "play for Clemson Basketball, I'm the baby-sitter who makes sure we don't get violations that jeopardize our football program".
However, we could look at an Ivy League model like you eluded to. Let's get some really quality kids that want to get a good education, be leaders in their community, and represent the brand well.
IF we set the expectation that our Basketball program is more about growing individuals than winning games, that is a result we can be proud of. We are not pumping out NBA talent. I know plenty of guys that were academic all-stars that also played a little ball on the side to round out their resumes.
The 'aw shucks we didn't win' attitude is what is the most destructive. Either you want to be the best on the court, or you decide your program can be the best in other arenas of life.
Look at Cliff Hammonds. Super smart guy, had a challenging degree, still plays some ball, and is a super Clemson guy.
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CU Guru [1143]
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Re: i cant agree with this
Mar 17, 2022, 11:03 AM
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Also, let's just dump basketball all-together and turn Littlejohn into an ice rink. Then we can go D1 and play against Boston College.
You can also generate money from the open skates for the public, Disney on Ice, etc.
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CU Medallion [51998]
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Re: My take on the Brownell decision
Mar 17, 2022, 8:50 AM
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Neff will also be concerned with setting higher, reasonable goals for the basketball program.
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Letterman [270]
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Re: My take on the Brownell decision
Mar 17, 2022, 9:42 AM
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More simply put…
If the ACC schools are getting SEC/B1G-type money, we would have moved on by now.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: My take on the Brownell decision
Mar 17, 2022, 9:51 AM
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Just because a "business" has more money does not mean they will choose to spend it unwisely.
Neff's decision would still be to run the best business possible.
Bigger TV contracts would give him some leeway to allow for more years to recoup a buyout, but a move should only be made with the understanding that it will benefit the business in the long run.
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All-TigerNet [10149]
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Re: My take on the Brownell decision
Mar 17, 2022, 10:19 AM
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I must be missing something because when I saw the mention of extension my heart sank.
Sounds like we are stuck in mud with a broken axle.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: My take on the Brownell decision
Mar 17, 2022, 11:20 AM
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The extension works in 2 ways.
The first is that coaches can't recruit with limited number of years remaining on their contracts because there will be no convincing players that the school is not setting them up to be fired or let go at the end of the contract. Years are required to show recruits that number.
The second reason to extend is to give a good faith offer on what Brownell will get if he does his job correctly. Also no coach is going to reduce his buyout and have years dwindling on his contract.
There has to be some give and take on both sides in a restructuring.
The good news is that if there is a reduced buyout, then even with an extension Brownell can be fired more easily if his performance is not up to par in the future.
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