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Virtuoso [636]
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Travel expenses.... blah blah blah...
May 15, 2012, 10:43 AM
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that's all I hear about. Why would someone like FSU even THINK about going to the BIG XII if the travel expenses were going to hurt them? You really don't think they've thought about it? How about Arizona?? The avg distance for them to every other Pac 12 school is around 850 miles! How in the world do they ever pay for those travel expenses?
Freaking tired of hearing travel expenses being the number one problem. Such a joke.. it's irrelevant... at least on the school side. The only "hurt" it would cause is fan travel.. and even then, I still think FSU and Clemson would travel well regardless of where we play.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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does arizona have a choice?***
May 15, 2012, 10:44 AM
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Virtuoso [636]
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really? that's your comment? haha***
May 15, 2012, 10:45 AM
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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yes. really. is that your reply?***
May 15, 2012, 10:45 AM
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All-In [30593]
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that's not the point... the point is they do it and it works
May 15, 2012, 10:46 AM
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and Clemson will arguably travel better than AZ (from a fan perspective)
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Virtuoso [636]
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well let's see there DSP.. I think if people at Arizona were
May 15, 2012, 10:47 AM
[ in reply to yes. really. is that your reply?*** ] |
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b#tching and moaning about travel expenses they would find a way to get out... go somewhere else. But you know what? They'll never do it... they make plenty of money in the Pac 12 for it to be a NON ISSUE. Just like it would for FSU or Clemson going to the Big XII.
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Legend [15749]
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Where would they go? ******
May 15, 2012, 10:48 AM
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Virtuoso [636]
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what does it matter? I'm just talking about travel
May 15, 2012, 10:49 AM
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expenses as a comparison. That's it. nothing else involved.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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you used a university with no options as reference to one
May 15, 2012, 10:50 AM
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with options.
really bad choice.
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Virtuoso [636]
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please tell me why Arizona doesn't have a choice to
May 15, 2012, 10:56 AM
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leave the Pac 12?
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CU Guru [1895]
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I already did. Where would they go?***
May 15, 2012, 10:56 AM
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Virtuoso [636]
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WAC.
May 15, 2012, 10:58 AM
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but it wouldn't make sense for them... no money. They make plenty of it in Pac 12...
So would FSU or Clemson in Big XII
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CU Guru [1895]
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The WAC is in no way comparable to our situation in the ACC.***
May 15, 2012, 11:00 AM
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Virtuoso [636]
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i'm not comparing the WAC to the ACC...***
May 15, 2012, 11:02 AM
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CU Guru [1895]
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Then what is your point
May 15, 2012, 11:06 AM
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There are 3 major conferences on the east coast. There is only one on the west coast. They have to travel if they want to be a part of major athletics. We do not.
What is a 3 million dollar difference for us would be an at least 19 or 20 million dollar difference for them.
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Rookie [13]
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Re: Then what is your point
May 16, 2012, 12:40 AM
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Three? I only know of one
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Legend [19586]
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Re: The WAC is in no way comparable to our situation in the ACC.***
May 15, 2012, 9:57 PM
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What does the WAC tv contract look like?
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CU Guru [1895]
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Nonexistent.
May 15, 2012, 10:01 PM
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People aren't exactly lining up for Idaho and NM St. these days.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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so what you're saying is the WAC isn't an option... are you
May 15, 2012, 11:00 AM
[ in reply to WAC. ] |
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trying to help or hurt our argument?
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Legend [15749]
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So in your mind, PAC12:WAC::Big12:ACC?
May 15, 2012, 11:02 AM
[ in reply to WAC. ] |
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I haven't looked at the numbers for WAC revenue, but I'm going to go ahead and say that you're wrong.
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Legend [15749]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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nope, he's serious,
May 15, 2012, 10:59 AM
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which scares me.
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Virtuoso [636]
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Here's the bottom line..
May 15, 2012, 11:01 AM
[ in reply to You have to be kidding. ****** ] |
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the travel expenses is just one small thing that people bring up.. and people like yourselves are not looking at the BIG PICTURE... you see, FSU is looking at THE BIG PICTURE.. going to the Big XII would not be a lateral move. They would make more money, get more tv rights, be in a conference that is football driven, but MOST of all, they would be in a conference that would HELP them get into a BCS playoff. In the long run, that is what they are concerned about. If they stay in the ACC, and if the BCS goes to a playoff with no AQ and not automatic conference champions, their chances will be hurt. Period.
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Legend [15749]
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False.
May 15, 2012, 11:03 AM
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"If they stay in the ACC, and if the BCS goes to a playoff with no AQ and not automatic conference champions, their chances will be hurt. Period."
False.
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Virtuoso [636]
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Tell me why.***
May 15, 2012, 11:03 AM
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Legend [15749]
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Win and we're in. It's always been the case.
May 15, 2012, 11:06 AM
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The problem is that ACC teams have been legitimately down the past few years, and were treated as such.
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Virtuoso [636]
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so why stay in the basketball driven and football conference
May 15, 2012, 11:08 AM
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that is not as good as the other conference across the board? I mean, if we win that's good for US... but, what about the rest of the conference?
And you can't say "that's how it's always been".... WAKE UP. Things are changing...
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All-In [30593]
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you don't think a 4 team playoff that doesn't include
May 15, 2012, 11:04 AM
[ in reply to False. ] |
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conference champions will hurt ACC teams?
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Legend [15749]
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I absolutely do not. FSU, Miami, Clemson, VT, GT...
May 15, 2012, 11:05 AM
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If they win, they'll get a seat at the table.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: I absolutely do not. FSU, Miami, Clemson, VT, GT...
May 15, 2012, 11:07 AM
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Let's say in 2013 LSU is 12-0, Oregon is 11-1, Oklahoma state is 11-1 and Wisconsin is 11-1 and Clemson is 11-1....
Which one is ranked #5 in your fantasy land?
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Virtuoso [636]
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an ACC team would never see a 4 team playoff with
May 15, 2012, 11:09 AM
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1 loss in that scenario. No way in ####
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Legend [15749]
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In 2011? Clemson.
May 15, 2012, 11:10 AM
[ in reply to Re: I absolutely do not. FSU, Miami, Clemson, VT, GT... ] |
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In 2015, it's wide open.
Tell me, which conferences in 2011 DIDN'T get an at-large BCS bid?
I assume, of course, that if we'd gone to the Big 12 we would have whooped up on that mighty OK State team to get to the fictional BCS playoff, yes?
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Legend [19586]
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Re: In 2011? Clemson.
May 15, 2012, 11:13 AM
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You've really lost it man. All of those teams had top 15 SOS rankings EXCEPT Clemson.
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Legend [15749]
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Lost it how? I said Clemson would be #5. ******
May 15, 2012, 11:15 AM
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Virtuoso [636]
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yeah.. #5.. and doesn't get in.***
May 15, 2012, 11:17 AM
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Legend [15749]
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Now see, you guys are changing conferences based on
May 15, 2012, 11:20 AM
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what would have happened in 2011 based on a BCS that didn't exist. I would argue that you guys have lost it.
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All-In [30593]
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saying an ACC team would get into a 4 team playoff
May 15, 2012, 11:22 AM
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again other 1-loss or undefeated teams consistently, without the use of an AQ for champs...
is like saying the Big East would also get a team into that
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Legend [15749]
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I disagree. Pretty sure we'll never see eye-to-eye on this.***
May 15, 2012, 11:26 AM
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Standout [338]
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Re: saying an ACC team would get into a 4 team playoff
May 15, 2012, 11:46 AM
[ in reply to saying an ACC team would get into a 4 team playoff ] |
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You can always make up a scenario that gets us in or out. I we step back and look at this realisticaly, we have been in position on several occassions to get ourselves into a 4 team playoff, but haven't won the games when we needed to.
Last year, how do you think we would have fared if we'd rebounded after the GaT loss? In week 10, we drop to 11th. Let's assume that we rebounded and won out and everything else went the way that it otherwise went.
Week 11 - We had the week off and moved up to 9th
Week 12 - We won and moved up to 7th
Week 13 - Instead of getting spanked by NC St, if we'd won, we would likely move up to 6th or perhaps 5th since Va Tech was ranked 6th and previously undefeated Ok St lost to Iowa St.
Week 14 - Arkansas gets their 2nd loss and we move to 4th or 5th
Week 15 - We beat Va Tech and move at least to 4th
I hate to play the "what if" game, but I was trying to make the point that if we win, we'll be in, perhaps even with one loss. Under that scenario, a 1 loss Clemson team would have gotten into a 4 team play off over a PAC 12 and Big 12 team with 1 loss as well.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Lost it how? I said Clemson would be #5. ******
May 15, 2012, 11:22 AM
[ in reply to Lost it how? I said Clemson would be #5. ****** ] |
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In that scenario, with those teams and those records, Clemson would NEVER be #4 or above. ACC does not have enough football schools and never will. They aren't going to morphe into football schools. The only way possible to beat that scenario would be if GT, Miami, FSU and VT were ALL ranked in the top 25 and we beat at least 3 of them. Every conference except the ACC has atleast 3 top 25 teams almost every week EVERY year.
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Legend [15749]
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That's just your opinion. Honestly, there have been
May 15, 2012, 11:25 AM
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several years when the PAC## has been USC and everyone else and the Big 12 has been Texas and everyone else.
CUATFL, I'm pretty sure we'll just have to agree to disagree on the possible football capabilities of a conference with Clemson, VT, GT, Miami and FSU in it.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Legend [19586]
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Re: False.
May 15, 2012, 11:06 AM
[ in reply to False. ] |
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If you think that's false then:
Wookie is smart.
false
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Legend [15749]
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CU Guru [1895]
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Re: what does it matter? I'm just talking about travel
May 15, 2012, 10:52 AM
[ in reply to what does it matter? I'm just talking about travel ] |
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On the east coast there are the SEC, ACC, and Big East.
In the west there is only the Pac-12 which is why those schools have to travel so far. Also it is a big reason why they get paid more.
We are in a different situation at Clemson.
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Legend [19586]
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CU Guru [1895]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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where would they go? what are their options? no sense in
May 15, 2012, 10:50 AM
[ in reply to well let's see there DSP.. I think if people at Arizona were ] |
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complaining about what you can't change right?
it's an issue, it may be a small one, that would be up to the university, but it's an issue or it wouldn't be a topic of conversation.
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All-In [30593]
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Travel expenses are a non issue... on another note...
May 15, 2012, 10:46 AM
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Do you guys really think the CHAIRMAN of FSU's BOT would make those comments if talks weren't being held?
Really?
You can call him stupid, min-informed, whatever... but this isn't just a board member. He's the CHAIRMAN of the BOT, the most powerful group at FSU, or any institutuion.
Really?
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110%er [5627]
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^^^^^^^ Seth Meyers ^^^^^^^^^^
May 15, 2012, 10:47 AM
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Really ??
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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they're a non-issue because you say so york? they are a
May 15, 2012, 10:48 AM
[ in reply to Travel expenses are a non issue... on another note... ] |
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part of the equation, no matter how small.
talks? what talks? the what is best for fsu talks? i'm sure they have those every day, it's their role.
gratz, they're doing their jobs.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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Do you really think the Board knows the operational side
May 15, 2012, 10:55 AM
[ in reply to Travel expenses are a non issue... on another note... ] |
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these things are worked out and then taken to a Board. He's already proven himself to be VERY misinformed.
The Board probably told the President who probably told the AD, look into whats best for FSU. If that means another conference we will explore it.
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CU Medallion [64590]
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It certainly seems....
May 15, 2012, 11:04 AM
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like the power-brokers at FSU from the COB to the President and fro mthe AD to the head coach are all singing from a different sheet of music.
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All-In [30593]
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I think the Prez is trying to appease everyone....
May 15, 2012, 11:18 AM
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BOT, fansbase, faculty...
and just waiting for details to be hammered out
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Legend [15749]
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I'm tired of hearing our situation compared to the PAC 12.
May 15, 2012, 10:46 AM
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Arizona doesn't have anything on the table that compares to their PAC 12 gig. They don't have a cluster of D1A schools near them like we do.
The fact that some other poor chump has to suck it up and fly to every game doesn't mean that Clemson has to force themselves into the same fate.
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CU Medallion [64590]
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No...it the result of the ACC's pi$$ poor leadership....
May 15, 2012, 11:18 AM
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that has been allowed to fester and go unabated for the last decade that has forced Clemson to consider its other options.
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Legend [15749]
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I don't disagree with that. ******
May 15, 2012, 11:21 AM
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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Well I know the Pac 12 cuts expenses in half by doing
May 15, 2012, 10:49 AM
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road trips in tandems. For the most part there are 2 Pac 12 schools close to each other with Arizona/ASU, USC/UCLA, Stanford/Cal, Oregon/Oregon St, Washington/Wash St, Utah/Colorado. When teams do road trips they'll play those 2 schools a day apart enabling to bus themselves to the next destination. That's why Pac 12 basketball games are usually always something like a Thurs/Sat thing. That helps cut down costs a lot in the smaller sports.
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Virtuoso [636]
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good point..
May 15, 2012, 10:52 AM
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and yes, they do that. and something could be done with it similarly to big XII... OU, OKSt.. Kansas, Kansas St.. Texas, Texas Tech, etc..
I'm just saying that travel expenses being a real issue for the school is bull.
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Legend [15749]
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What about travel expenses for the fans? ******
May 15, 2012, 10:53 AM
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Virtuoso [636]
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travel expenses for the fans have nothing to do with
May 15, 2012, 10:54 AM
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the university.
Don't exactly remember Clemson paying everyone gas to go see them play a football game.
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Legend [15749]
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So fans don't matter in this decision? ******
May 15, 2012, 10:56 AM
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110%er [5627]
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No...you think schools look out for their fans?? They might
May 15, 2012, 10:58 AM
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say they do, but they don't
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Legend [15749]
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Well then, I'm glad you guys don't have leadership positions
May 15, 2012, 11:04 AM
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at Clemson.
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Virtuoso [636]
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110%er [5915]
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Indirectly - They do.
May 15, 2012, 11:00 AM
[ in reply to travel expenses for the fans have nothing to do with ] |
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If visiting fans can't make games because of travel expenses - attendance will be reduced and gate receipts will be smaller, thus effecting the bottom line.
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All-In [30593]
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interesting....
May 15, 2012, 11:01 AM
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I think several Big XII schools may bring more than many of the closer ACC schools do right now
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110%er [5915]
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Re: interesting....
May 15, 2012, 11:04 AM
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They may.
And they may not.
TCU brought a good crowd, but would they on a routine basis.
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Virtuoso [636]
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why wouldn't they? if they were in our division it's a trip
May 15, 2012, 11:06 AM
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they would make every other year...
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110%er [5915]
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Re: why wouldn't they? if they were in our division it's a trip
May 15, 2012, 11:51 AM
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Because it is a long way and our TCU game was a one time game.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Re: interesting....
May 15, 2012, 10:02 PM
[ in reply to interesting.... ] |
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Agree for the first game @Clemson then rarely ever.
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Hall of Famer [23112]
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Virtuoso [636]
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that couldn't be more vague.***
May 15, 2012, 11:04 AM
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Hall of Famer [23112]
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Not vague at all,
May 15, 2012, 11:09 AM
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You started a thread based on the fact that AZ schools had no problems absorbing the travel expenses incurred by the travel distances in their Pac 12 conference. One school turned a very small profit the other lost money.Not vague all , just facts.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Re: that couldn't be more vague.***
May 15, 2012, 10:07 PM
[ in reply to that couldn't be more vague.*** ] |
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Just doesn't jive with your statement, not vague.
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Rock Defender [51]
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From the horse's mouth
May 15, 2012, 11:10 AM
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The FSU president specifically addressed this:
"we realize that our sports teams can no longer travel by bus to most games -- the estimate is that the travel by plane required by FSU to be in the Big 12 appears to exceed the $2.9M difference in the contract -- actually giving us fewer dollars than we have now to be competitive with the Big 12 teams, who obviously do not have to travel as far."
Their overall athletic travel budget would increase by more than $3 million a year. You're potentially talking thousands of plane tickets a year once you consider flights for tennis/rowing/volleyball/baseball/basketball/etc.
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Virtuoso [636]
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If Big XII wants FSU and/or Clemson.. they will
May 15, 2012, 11:23 AM
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all renegotiate to help with those added expenses... hence, why it isn't an issue.
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Orange Blooded [2071]
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You're making an assumption there...
May 15, 2012, 11:26 AM
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No one knows what the B12 would come up with to help with travel expenses, if anything.
To me, and to the FSU President, it's a legitimate issue.
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Virtuoso [636]
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If the Big XII wants those schools they KNOW they would
May 15, 2012, 11:27 AM
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have to come up with a little more money to help them come over. If not, what's the point in talking in the first place?
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110%er [6577]
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If Big XII expands to 12 or 14 teams they will get to
May 15, 2012, 11:46 AM
[ in reply to You're making an assumption there... ] |
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renegotiate more tv money. That, on top of how much more money they already make than us, will be hard to turn down.
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Standout [338]
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Re: Travel expenses.... blah blah blah...
May 15, 2012, 11:26 AM
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Seriously? Have you ever made a rational business decision in your life. Of course, you look at the expenses as well as the revenue associated with each option. Not to do so would be to violate your fudiciary duty, not to mention it's a great way to get fired for incompetence.
Revenue - Better TV contract $2.9M, better fan support for Texas and Oklahoma vs VPI and Miami (difficult to quantify),better bowl tie ins ?
Expenses - Short term = $20M buyout, increased travel expense (if it's >$2.9M for FSU, how much would it be for Clemson? FSU likely flies more often than Clemson does since we're just a short bus ride to Atlanta and the NC schools. Remember, the expenses aren't just for the football team, they're for the olympic sports as well.
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Scout Team [154]
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Re: Travel expenses.... blah blah blah...
May 15, 2012, 2:30 PM
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I think a lot of people are forgetting that the athletes are students before they are athletes and being in a conference that makes you travel 1,000 miles to go play a Tuesday night basketball game is not going to work. These kids already have to miss a lot of class with just traveling to ACC schools, how many more classes do you think they will have to miss to travel 1,000 miles from Clemson? There is going to be a point where Clemson will have to decided if their athletes are students or just an fund raising part of the university.
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110%er [6577]
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haha. that's funny. you do realize there are other schools
May 15, 2012, 7:50 PM
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that travel 1000 miles for a tuesday night basketball game. and whether you want to believe it or not, these student athletes make these universities go 'round.
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CU Guru [1339]
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For FSU
May 15, 2012, 7:56 PM
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the distance traveled to Syracuse, NY is further than to Austin, TX so the argument for travel expenses, for FSU, in the B12 is moot
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110%er [9949]
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I would love to go Arizona***
May 15, 2012, 9:45 PM
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