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Legend [16908]
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Per D Hood - No extension for Brad Brownell
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Mar 13, 2023, 8:02 PM
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This is a mixed bag for me. Only 3 years remain. A complete vote of no confidence by the AD. Also means recruiting is dead for 2023 and 2024. We only have 1 player committed for either year. He’s going to have to round out his lineups with 1 year transfers in all likelihood.
With an extension off the table it sounds like the new ops center is an inducement for the next coach - not something Brownell will ever see. Who off the bench can replacement Tyson and Galloway? Who takes their place on the bench? Can the ACC really be as non-competitive as it was this year? Even if not, our rotation is less favorable - Miami, Pitt, and UNC twice each.
So, it screams to me that Brownell will be shown the exit after next season - he’ll probably be leaving behind a mess with no new blood coming in. Will be hoping that a couple of this year’s freshman stick around.
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Orange Blooded [4035]
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Re: Per D Hood - No extension for Brad Brownell
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Mar 13, 2023, 8:06 PM
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BEFORE todays announcement - Brownell had 1 player (3 star). Shoots a hole in your theory. He already could not recruit and has shown that for years.
Marquette says thanks for O Max Prosper.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Per D Hood - No extension for Brad Brownell
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Mar 13, 2023, 8:13 PM
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how does that shoot a hole in my theory? He was already hamstrung going into this year. I'm not saying this to defend him. He is an objectively mediocre coach. When his 2023 recruit committed, it was to a coach that would only have 3 years left when he enrolled. Going strictly by 247 ratings this will be one of Brownell's worst recruiting years ever. With only 2 years on the contract for 2024 recruits I wouldn't be surprised for that class number to stay at zero. If he has any attrition beyond those finishing eligibility (and he does almost every year) things are going to get very sketchy. Hence why it is, to me, a mixed bag. Brownell will almost certainly be gone after next season. But the team the new coach inherits will be absolutely decimated.
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Legend [19687]
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It means we'll try to hit the portal for an impact guy
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Mar 13, 2023, 8:27 PM
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for 2023-24. If the team is decimated by transfers and graduations when/if Brad is gone, the portal also allows for very quick rebuilds. The guy at Wake has shown that
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110%er [7992]
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Re: It means we'll try to hit the portal for an impact guy
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Mar 13, 2023, 8:34 PM
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for 2023-24. If the team is decimated by transfers and graduations when/if Brad is gone, the portal also allows for very quick rebuilds. The guy at Wake has shown that
Per the Cuse coach WF bought their team as did Miami and Pitt. Duke, UNC and UL always buy their guy so I would not expect better results with any coach unless we step up out NIL contributions
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Legend [19687]
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But Wake spends less on basketball than we do
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Mar 13, 2023, 8:44 PM
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how is that possible 
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Legend [19687]
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Well, we're going to need a scorer from the portal
Mar 13, 2023, 9:03 PM
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so Brad better find a way. PJ is likely looking at some NIL money as well. I like all 4 freshmen, but I don't think we can count on a quantum leap from any of them.
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All-TigerNet [13492]
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Re: Per D Hood - No extension for Brad Brownell
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Mar 13, 2023, 8:13 PM
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I said back when we were 18-4 and 10-1 that I felt like Brad was probably going to do enough to earn another season but that I hoped Neff would hold off on the extension. I got a lot of pushback from people who said we needed to give him an extension now but my feeling was he still has 3 years left on his existing extension and that isn't going to really impact recruiting because players are coming and going a lot faster than they used to and if the coach is under contract for 3 years no one is really going to be worried by that.
I think the fact there is no extension now gives Neff room to have another year of evaluation. If we can keep the team intact we will have a good group coming back and hopefully, we can pick up a couple of good transfers to fill in for some of the guys who are leaving.
If we don't make the Big Dance next year then Neff has another chance to decide if Brad really is the long-term solution and if we fall short again he can make a change at that point if he wants.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Per D Hood - No extension for Brad Brownell
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Mar 13, 2023, 8:19 PM
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i think its a fait accompli. He can't afford to lose anyone(almost always does) and still needs to strike gold in the portal to replace at least a significant portion of Tyson and Galloway's productivity. He even acknowledged in his presser today that he didn't give his freshman time he would have because he was running up scores to impress the committee. If PJ Hall decides to leave, Neff may have to reconsider how obligated to Brownell he really is. Its long been my suspicion that the contract lengths were overblown by agents - but its another thing entirely for Clemson to be the one testing the waters. And a single player for the next two years might validate it.
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All-TigerNet [13492]
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Re: Per D Hood - No extension for Brad Brownell
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Mar 13, 2023, 8:26 PM
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I would not be surprised to see it go that way and without an extension in place, Neff has the flexibility to re-evaluate his decision this time next year.
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Legend [19687]
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This is where I thought Neff would make his stand
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Mar 13, 2023, 8:24 PM
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keeps the buyout very manageable, and sends a clear message of tourney or bust for next season.
As for next year, if everyone returns, we should be good. PJ and Hunter are a very good core. Godfrey and Wiggins should take substantial steps forward. Shieff has some talent, and was every bit as good as Tyson was as a soph. We should be good.
For Brad's sake, we'll need to be tourney good
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All-TigerNet [13492]
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Re: This is where I thought Neff would make his stand
Mar 13, 2023, 8:27 PM
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That's the way I see it as well...
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Re: This is where I thought Neff would make his stand
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Mar 13, 2023, 8:30 PM
[ in reply to This is where I thought Neff would make his stand ] |
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keeps the buyout very manageable, and sends a clear message of tourney or bust for next season.
As for next year, if everyone returns, we should be good. PJ and Hunter are a very good core. Godfrey and Wiggins should take substantial steps forward. Shieff has some talent, and was every bit as good as Tyson was as a soph. We should be good.
For Brad's sake, we'll need to be tourney good
who will transfer? no one expected to lose both Dawes and Honor? how do you know that Wiggins and Godfrey see PJ and Sheff ahead of them and bolt?
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Legend [19687]
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You can't know, but right now they are competing for
Mar 13, 2023, 8:36 PM
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Tyson's spot. The other would get substantial minutes. I think we look for a true scoring guard to pair with Hunter and make up for the points lost with Tyson gone in the portal. I think both Godfrey and Wiggins are going to be really good players, though neither that consistent third scorer next season
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All-TigerNet [10904]
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Dillon Hunter is probably a truer point guard than Chase.
Mar 13, 2023, 9:03 PM
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He did pretty well taking care of the ball when he was in there.
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Legend [19687]
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He did, but he's not a scorer
Mar 13, 2023, 9:06 PM
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and we'll need a third scorer. Chase handled PG pretty well overall, especially for his first season playing the position. I'm interesting to see how he improves there with a season under his belt. He had some great games, and we saw against Virginia where he needs to improve.
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Re: The best thing for this year's team was losing Dawes & Honor
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Mar 13, 2023, 9:59 PM
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two small guards that were weak on defense!
yep, Honor shur did hurt Missouri this season. starting PG on a good seeded NCAAT team for a first year HC.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: This is where I thought Neff would make his stand
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Mar 13, 2023, 8:32 PM
[ in reply to This is where I thought Neff would make his stand ] |
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I see our starting 5 being okay but it doesn't leave much on the bench. And I don't think we're better than this year - which didn't make the tourney. I went full doom and gloom last year and was way off in wins - but was I really in substance? The OOC was horrendous and we still lost games. What would have happened if it was even remotely competitive as previously suspected? Hall played from day 1 when I believed he wouldn't be available until December. And the ACC - oof. Harder ACC rotation. Harder ACC. Harder OOC. The first is for sure and the other two are likely. We could somehow be improved and still lose more games. And I'm still not sure PJ Hall comes back. I know he loves Brownell and Clemson, but its my impression he believes he has NBA talent. He probably moved backwards from that goal this year. He is not on anyone's draft board. He could probably command big NIL money and and least see if another program puts more eyes on him. I think it's a little strange that Neff made Hall's return a centerpiece of retaining Brownell last year and isn't waiting for any such announcement this time.
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Starter [395]
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Re: This is where I thought Neff would make his stand
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Mar 13, 2023, 8:38 PM
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I'm waiting to see who transfers, Wiggins would be my guess
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All-TigerNet [13492]
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Legend [19687]
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With Brad here I think PJ stays
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Mar 13, 2023, 8:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: This is where I thought Neff would make his stand ] |
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also believe with a healthy off season he's primed for a really big year. He knows he'll be the go to guy. I also think we target a scoring guard to pair with Hunter from the portal. Bench wise, we'd have the one of Godfrey or Wiggins who doesn't start at 3 for Tyson, and they'd basically be the 6th man. We're good with guard depth, especially with Gibson now in the fold. Could use a backup big, also likely a portal guy. With the incoming freshman, that would be 13 on scholarship.
Of course, that's if everyone hangs around
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CU Medallion [58415]
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It is what it is, and all I can do is get behind Brownell
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Mar 13, 2023, 9:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: This is where I thought Neff would make his stand ] |
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and the team and hope for the best. I've been very vocal and clear about my opinion regarding coach Brownell and the basketball program, and none of that has changed. However, I still want success for them all, so I have to put my big boy britches on once again and accept the reality that there will be a continuation instead of the change I had hoped for. I am pulling for them all and hoping the contiuation includes another 14 ACC wins and 3rd place finish. If we do that we'll make the NCAAT next time, and I'll be good.
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All-In [48323]
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Re: This is where I thought Neff would make his stand
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Mar 13, 2023, 8:47 PM
[ in reply to This is where I thought Neff would make his stand ] |
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I have no clue how pro ball works but if I'm Hall and have any chance of going, why wouldn't he.
Who knows what the league will look like next year but we were extremely fortunate this year with our schedule. Traditional good teams like ND, Va Tech was in a rebuilding year and have too good a coach to stay down, and fsu have strong teams.
Saying, this year was set up for success. I fully expect as viz alluded to, next year I expect the comp to be tougher.
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Legend [19687]
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PJ would not be drafted this year
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Mar 13, 2023, 8:52 PM
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he has skills, especially scoring wise. But his rebounding for his size is weak and he doesn't run the court well. A healthy off season could/should improve those things. 6'10 guys who can score from 3 levels have value, but they also have to rebound far better than he did this season.
But he was playing off of no off season and two serious injuries.
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CU Guru [1300]
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Can you really call it a stand after he walked back his statement from last year?
Mar 14, 2023, 8:11 AM
[ in reply to This is where I thought Neff would make his stand ] |
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We supposedly needed to be tourney good for Brad’s sake this year and that meant a hill of beans.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Can you really call it a stand after he walked back his statement from last year?
Mar 14, 2023, 8:17 AM
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Neff says we are a tourney team in his mind.
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Orange Blooded [3961]
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Re: This is where I thought Neff would make his stand
Mar 14, 2023, 8:29 AM
[ in reply to This is where I thought Neff would make his stand ] |
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Hunter Tyson was already on his fifth year unless you are talking about chase hunter. Maybe Tyson comes back for a COVID 6th year.
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CU Medallion [64590]
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Other than reducing the buyout amount...
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Mar 13, 2023, 8:45 PM
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there is really no justifiable reason to retain CBB for another year.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Other than reducing the buyout amount...
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Mar 13, 2023, 8:49 PM
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I 100% agree and think it's a ridiculous half measure on Neff's part. But, I'm relieved he didn't give him an extension. There's downside to the program, but we've endured 13 years of Brownell - who is the walking embodiment of downside.
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All-TigerNet [13248]
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Re: Per D Hood - No extension for Brad Brownell
Mar 13, 2023, 9:44 PM
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only 19 players out of the top 50 have committed in the 2024 class.
We have 1 player committed now, now but will only need to bring in 2-3. Transfer portal will be big again.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Per D Hood - No extension for Brad Brownell
Mar 13, 2023, 9:52 PM
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No one has signed for 2024. We have zero commits. We have 1 signee for 2023.
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All-TigerNet [13248]
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8 teams in the ACC don't have anyone committed for 2024 yet.
Mar 14, 2023, 12:15 AM
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....and 6 of the other 7 have only 1 committed thus far.
It's way too early to be making prognostications on 2024 recruiting.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: 8 teams in the ACC don't have anyone committed for 2024 yet.
Mar 14, 2023, 6:53 AM
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Since when is it ever too early for prognostications? The point is about the time on the contract. That is generally thought to create significant difficulties in recruiting once it is below 4 years. Per the 247 composite index, the 2023 is Brownell’s second worst his entire time here. One of the most popular narratives from Brownell’s supporters is that we shouldn’t judge the entire tenure - rather the period since the completion of Littlejohn renovations. But here we are, after he has supposedly turn a corner, turning in his second worst recruiting job ever. So I’d say that there appears to be some correlation between his contract (and how that relates to his job security) and his ability to recruit. Would the 2024 class normally be a major problem at this point? Not really. Combine a problematic ‘23 class and the fact that Brownell will be searching for commits willing to sign with a coach very much on the hot seat and only 2 years on his contract (when they enroll) then yes I think it’s a potential problem. It’s why the status quo has been to reconfigure buyouts but give extensions in these situations. Early signing day is in November for basketball. If David Hood is correct, then there won’t be a change in Brownell’s status between now and signing day for the 2024 class. I see that severely limiting his recruiting possibilities.
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All-TigerNet [13248]
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Re: 8 teams in the ACC don't have anyone committed for 2024 yet.
Mar 14, 2023, 1:54 PM
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To answer your first question: Right now....now is too early.
When half the ACC doesn't have a player committed, and only 1 team has more than 1 committed, at this very moment, I'm not sure what the issue is as obviously basketball contracts are not what's driving recruiting decisions.
If you look at other conferences, it's very much the same outlook right now as well.
Further, with the increase in traffic in the transfer portal, we can always plug in 1-2 players, like we did last year, which worked well for us btw.
I get what you're saying, I really do. But I think we're 8-13 months out before what you're saying becomes the elevated issue you're saying it is. We currently have 9 Freshman & Sophomores on the team (w/ 1 commit) and there is a lot of talent within that group.
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CU Guru [1655]
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Re: Per D Hood - No extension for Brad Brownell
Mar 14, 2023, 12:00 AM
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this did not age well...
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Per D Hood - No extension for Brad Brownell
Mar 14, 2023, 6:30 AM
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How did this not age well? Has anything else been announced. David Hood responded to my question in another thread. I’ve seen no reporting elsewhere that contradicts it.
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Legend [19687]
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Not sure either
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Mar 14, 2023, 6:54 AM
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to be honest, I could care less if he's extended a bazillion years so long as the buyout remains very manageable. If something does happen where the buyout is once again in the "unaffordable" range, then I would be upset. No tourney next season and we simply have to move on
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Not sure either
Mar 14, 2023, 7:02 AM
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I think the person I was replying to simply thought I meant he wouldn’t be back. David Hood replied directly to me - “no extension” and I’ve seen nothing else anywhere. I’m of the same mind about the contract / extension/ buyout. Just very surprised they didn’t go to the trouble of playing the shell game. Also reminding myself that, without an extension, this is pretty much meaningless lip service. If the NIT is an embarrassment and/or there is a player exodus then they could easily change course.
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Orange Blooded [3961]
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Re: Per D Hood - No extension for Brad Brownell
Mar 14, 2023, 8:28 AM
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Absolutely don’t give him a dang extension. He doesn’t deserve it. He needs to be happy he still has a job. No one is beating down his door to hire him.
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Orange Blooded [3138]
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I would have thought that negotiating a lower buyout with
Mar 14, 2023, 9:27 AM
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a carrot of an extension would have been better. No extension is a vote of no confidence, basically a dead fish. Recruiting is going to suck and it's all or nothing next year if he can keep his team together.
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All-In [27185]
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Re: Per D Hood - No extension for Brad Brownell
Mar 14, 2023, 10:00 AM
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Basically this is becoming a cleanup on aisle 5 maneuver by Neff. Recruiting (which is already bad) will take a hit. Whoever comes in after Brownell will be looking at a complete re-build. What's even more frustrating, is that all of this could have been avoided.
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