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Replies: 31
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All-In [46825]
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Lettuce Discuss: The American Dream
Jan 5, 2022, 7:34 AM
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Is the American Dream still attainable?
Definition of American Dream: A job that allows for a house, a family, and stable retirement
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All-TigerNet [13104]
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Re: Lettuce Discuss: The American Dream
Jan 5, 2022, 7:35 AM
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We all know the liberal version of this dream is to get it all without doing a #### thing (meaning the job part is optional).
Yes it is, alive and well.
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Hall of Famer [24050]
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Re: Lettuce Discuss: The American Dream
Jan 5, 2022, 7:39 AM
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You live in a house with a family don't you? If you can do it anyone can.
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All-In [42151]
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FALSE
Jan 5, 2022, 7:44 AM
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The American Dream consists of what you listed AND being a part of the Clemson family AND not having to suffer on a Gamecock level.
This is not attainable for all.
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CU Medallion [66054]
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#TruthBomb***
Jan 5, 2022, 7:54 AM
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All-In [31891]
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I don't think it's ever been more attainable than...
Jan 5, 2022, 7:44 AM
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right this instant.
And let's be clear, the American dream isn't simply to have a house, family, and retirement...but rather that if you work hard and make good decisions that your ability to attain those things is not limited by your current station in life or the station into which you were born.
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All-In [42151]
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I tend to agree with one exception
Jan 5, 2022, 7:47 AM
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I think there are very predatory methods to ensnare people in crippling debt. Now, I know that ultimately is the responsibility of the individual to know better and make better decisions, but I think more than ever, Americans are having to make those decisions in a system that's working to keep them in that debt.
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Hall of Famer [24050]
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Re: I tend to agree with one exception
Jan 5, 2022, 7:53 AM
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What do you mean by predatory methods? I've been in heavy debt before. No one forced me into the debt.
Message was edited by: p6fuller®
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All-In [42151]
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Re: I tend to agree with one exception
Jan 5, 2022, 7:58 AM
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I know. I've been up the debt creek too, and I know it was ultimately my responsibility. But credit card companies do target people who are historically irresponsible and uneducated with money (18-24 year olds). That's where I got into my troubles back then. I believe more than ever, companies like this are targeting Americans more voraciously to get into this debt.
But again, ultimately it still comes down to personal responsibility.
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110%er [5791]
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I wish that basic MS/HS education spent a little more time
Jan 5, 2022, 9:23 AM
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on how credit card/debt works and impacts people. I agree that it's also the parent and individual's responsibility, but i'd also be curious to see if people with high credit card debt have children that also end up with high debt.
I've been fortunate that I was able to get my overall debt down to a manageable level, and keep a low balance nowadays. I'm hoping that I can teach my kids not to get into that situation.
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All-In [42151]
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Agreed, and some schools do
Jan 5, 2022, 9:36 AM
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But it's an elective class and they have to have the ability to hire a person who can teach it. It needs to be more standard.
And I do believe there's a correlation between poor parent money management and their children once they leave the nest.
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Hall of Famer [24050]
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Re: I wish that basic MS/HS education spent a little more time
Jan 5, 2022, 9:45 AM
[ in reply to I wish that basic MS/HS education spent a little more time ] |
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The 'how it works' part would be one class. Understanding the impact and the ethical responsibility to pay one's debts is what people need to understand.
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All-In [46825]
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Hall of Famer [24050]
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Re: I teach this. Every Econ teacher I know teaches this***
Jan 5, 2022, 10:08 AM
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Do you teach them that they have an ethical responsibility to repay their creditors?
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All-In [46825]
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Yep. Right along with the predatory student loan corporation
Jan 5, 2022, 10:19 AM
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which makes it near impossible to actually pay off student loan debt. Which is also why I don't push college as the only avenue of success like education has done for at least 3 decades ensnaring many students in that same predatory cycle.
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Hall of Famer [24050]
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Re: Yep. Right along with the predatory student loan corporation
Jan 5, 2022, 10:28 AM
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How is a student loan company predatory? Do you have some specific examples of predatory lending by student loan companies? Such as higher than normal interest rates, unreasonable time period to pay it back, and/or contract language that is unusually hard to understand?
Message was edited by: p6fuller®
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All-In [46825]
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Hall of Famer [24050]
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Re: Yep. Right along with the predatory student loan corporation
Jan 5, 2022, 10:45 AM
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That seems like an issue with the "educational institution" not the lendor.
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All-In [46825]
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I agree. That's why student loan forgiveness
Jan 5, 2022, 10:50 AM
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is like taking Tylenol for AIDS. The education system/loan system needs an overhaul. Allow student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy and I bet we will see tuition go to reasonable levels.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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tuition will go down huh?***
Jan 5, 2022, 11:02 AM
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Hall of Famer [24050]
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Hall of Famer [21935]
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bro
Jan 5, 2022, 1:03 PM
[ in reply to Yep. Right along with the predatory student loan corporation ] |
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what?
as an economics teacher, you should be educating your students on how to calculate the return on investment of their degree. My degree, for example, cost me 25k. I came out of college, on average for my degree at the time, making 65k. there's a fairly simple mathematical exercise one can take to determine the pay back period and ROIC for this.
I thought you were kidding/trolling per usual about bein an econ teacher. loord help.
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All-In [31891]
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Hall of Famer [24050]
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All-In [46825]
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If you work a full time job in this country
Jan 5, 2022, 7:50 AM
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you should be able to afford a house, a family, and have retirement.
Is that still the case?
50 years ago it was. I'm not so sure about today
Message was edited by: FBCoachSC®
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All-TigerNet [13104]
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Re: If you work a full time job in this country
Jan 5, 2022, 7:54 AM
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I know where you are going with this, but even in the 50’s people didn’t expect to buy a house working at McDonald’s full time.
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All-In [42151]
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This is where I see the problem with your argument
Jan 5, 2022, 7:55 AM
[ in reply to If you work a full time job in this country ] |
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Those things are attainable if people temper their expectations of what they should have.
Not everyone can have the nicest house. Yet many Americans have bitten off more than they can chew with their home.
They drive cars they can't afford because they want something nice.
They accumulate loads of debt to buy flashy things and stuff.
They pop out a brood of kids before the age of 30 because they think they need to create their own basketball team and then bemoan that they can't support their family.
People can attain the things you listed. They have just started to think they can/should have the best of it, and make meager monthly payments to obtain it.
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Hall of Famer [24050]
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Re: If you work a full time job in this country
Jan 5, 2022, 7:57 AM
[ in reply to If you work a full time job in this country ] |
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So you don't believe people rented or lived in multi family homes 50 years ago? I think maybe your idea of 50 years ago is romanticized. We were in the 70's 50 years ago, which was largely a bad economic Era, especially towards the end.
Message was edited by: p6fuller®
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All-TigerNet [13104]
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Re: If you work a full time job in this country
Jan 5, 2022, 8:08 AM
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His recollection of the 50’s is based on “Happy Days”; but even the Fonz was a squatter.
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All-In [26968]
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I have such a job...
Jan 5, 2022, 8:04 AM
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So I would say it's pretty obvious that it's attainable.
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110%er [5675]
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Re: Lettuce Discuss: The American Dream
Jan 5, 2022, 10:31 AM
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That's your definition of the American Dream? Not very high expectations.
If that's it, then your dream is easily attained in a fully communist country where they provide the job and stable retirement for you, 100% backed by the integrity of government. And, if you are not a dufus, they let you have kids. You don't get a lot of chit you don't need like boats, fancy cars, and fashion. PERFECT!
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CU Medallion [55747]
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First, I don't believe that is the American Dream. But to
Jan 5, 2022, 12:47 PM
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answer your question, sure, it is still attainable. But only if you are in certain sectors of the economy (tech, healthcare, finance) or start your own business.
My definition of the American Dream is to have the freedom to be able to pursue your G-d-given interests and talents with minimal imposed restrictions by government, social class, or other factors.
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50
