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110%er [9028]
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This crow is delicious.
Jan 28, 2016, 8:28 AM
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It looks like BB has they boys playing really well. Complaints about fouls shooting? fixed
Complaints about 3pt shooting? fixed
Complaints about long scoring droughts and losing big leads? fixed
They are showing good bench strenghth, noko is playing like the man, Bloss just keeps bringing his a game, Donte is really maturing as a player, he is going to be a good one.
Way to go Tigers, great job BB. Love the crow, hope I have to eat it all the way to the dance.
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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Well said, kudos!***
Jan 28, 2016, 8:30 AM
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CU Medallion [64590]
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The freethrow shooting....
Jan 28, 2016, 8:33 AM
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wasn't quite as good last nigh as it has been. I believe the team finished 18 for 26 (69%) which was below the season average. Fortunately, they shot well enough from the field so that it never became an issue.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: The freethrow shooting....
Jan 28, 2016, 8:35 AM
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Not that long ago shooting nearly 70% from the FT line was a great night.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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WE are doing something right?
Jan 28, 2016, 8:40 AM
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Or the officials?
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CU Medallion [64590]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Drawing fouls is a huge part of the game.***
Jan 28, 2016, 8:44 AM
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Legend [15810]
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When Donte finds his shot...he'll be deadly...his move to
Jan 28, 2016, 8:39 AM
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the basket when he split the Pitt defenders was sweet!!!
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All-In [30831]
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I don't think that means what you think it means
Jan 28, 2016, 8:48 AM
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Eating crow isn't suppose to be delicious. It is suppose to be nasty, rotten. You know, so you don't want to eat it again. Suppose to change your habits so you can avoid the crow.
I think you are describing a fair weather fan.
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Rock Defender [53]
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I was down on Brownell early in the season, because I want
Jan 28, 2016, 8:51 AM
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Clemson to have a good basketball team. It was hard to point to anything prior to January 1 that was promising. Heck we only won our exhibition game in double overtime.
If Brownell is the guy who can produce a consistent tournament team, then I'm with him. If we revert to the December squad, then we should be looking for someone else.
Does that make me a fairweather fan?
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All-In [30831]
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Yes. The description you posted Reads that way.***
Jan 28, 2016, 8:54 AM
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Rock Defender [53]
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So because I want Clemson basketball to succeed, but wasn't
Jan 28, 2016, 8:57 AM
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happy with a 6th year coach taking Lenoir Rhyne to 2 overtimes and going 3-4 in December I'm a fairweather fan?
Should blind support of a coach be required of all true fans? Was firing Bowden a result of fair-weather fans?
I just want to make sure we're using the term correctly.
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All-In [30831]
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I would argue yes. All fans want their team to do well. That is universal.
Jan 28, 2016, 9:06 AM
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How you behave during the ups and downs will determine the type of fan you are.
The situation you are describing reads fair weather to me.
A fan will support their team. Up and down.
A fair weather will beat them up when they are down and rog when they are up.
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Rock Defender [53]
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What part of my post gave you the idea I was beating up the
Jan 28, 2016, 9:09 AM
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team? The guy I HAD a problem with was the one making $2 million/year to field a competitive product.
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All-In [30831]
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And here lies the root of the debate
Jan 28, 2016, 9:27 AM
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I think you and I differ on the rules of the system , especially in expectations as a "fan"
I can only provide you my situation and belief.
I'm a graduate of Clemson and iptay member. As a member of iptay I have 3 expectations from Clemson athletics.
1) follow the rules
2) emphasize education. No matter how much money is made or how that money is used to justify the molestation of higher education. . These are still students. First.
3) I am able to purchase season tickets.
I will maintain my iptay membership as long as financially feasible. If I'm unable to be an iptay member and drop to just fan status, my expectations will drop from 3 to 2. I will no longer expect the ability to get season tickets. My first 2 expectations will remain unchanged.
Winning and losing are not in my expectations in either of those situations. Clemson university athletics owes me nothing. Brad brownell owes me nothing. If Clemson or brownell violate expectation one or 2 I will rethink my fan status.
I treat these teams like I do my kids teams. I support them no matter what. There are losses and I have disagreements with coaches. When I do I address the coach. I don't cast stones from the protection of an anonymous bleacher.
Now that is just me and my opinion. Others may very and I respect that. . Even when I disagree.
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Rock Defender [53]
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So let me get this straight. You donate to an organization
Jan 28, 2016, 9:31 AM
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that subsidizes coaches salaries, and as long as they follow NCAA rules and emphasize education, you don't see any reason to terminate a coach based on a very measurable standard of job performance (W/L record)?
Is that what you are saying?
edit: You are also saying that by desiring a change of coach, one is no longer a "fan"?
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110%er [9028]
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That's what I took Gville to say.***
Jan 28, 2016, 9:37 AM
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110%er [9028]
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All-In [30831]
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This is correct to an extent.
Jan 28, 2016, 11:14 AM
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My clemson fanship did not begin until my freshman year in 1991 at the age of 18.
St that time I was hot headed, self entitled, and juveniles. I ranted. I raged. Got kicked off every message board there was. So during that time I was fire everyone.
My attitude didn't change until my 13 year hold neice was diagnosed with terminal cancer . At that point, Well into my thirties, i revisited my philosophy toward several things.
I consider my self a big, dedicated fan of Clemson sports. But I tell you this with all certainty. I would burn down every athletic facility, every trophy , every recOrd Clemson has or will have if some one discoverd the cure for cancer was in their ashes.
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Legend [17626]
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Sorry for your loss.
Jan 28, 2016, 11:39 AM
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Many of us can point to life-changing events that have altered our perspective, usually in a good way. Unfortunately many of them are tragic.
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All-In [30831]
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Yes and no
Jan 28, 2016, 10:12 AM
[ in reply to So let me get this straight. You donate to an organization ] |
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yes in the fact that if you are paid to do a job, You are accountable to do that job.
No in the fact that it is not my job as a fan to make that decision. I'm not bb's boss. I have no say in it. I do have the opportunity like all of us to contact bb's boss. But I never have.
Often times I have the opportunity to show up and cheer for my team . Which is my job as a fan. The only thing I can truly control.
Edit: no. Desire and wants are not the same as expectations. I want to win the lottery. I do not expect to win the lottery. Therefore , I can choose to play the lottery or not. I certainly do not have the right to change the rules or employees of the power ball to meet my wants and desires.
For some reason we as fans use our sport entertainment to define ourselves. If our team entertains us well we are proud and better people. If our team losses, we are not entertained well and somehow become less and ashamed. The sporting team is the reason. "My team lost. I feel worse and it is your fault for losing. "
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110%er [9028]
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Re: Yes and no
Jan 28, 2016, 10:18 AM
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OK, I guess the discussion then lies around whether it is ok for fans to express displeasure in the performance of said team. You are absolutely right that we don't hire and fire (nor should we - see the fire Dabo, S&C staff, et al), but since this is a fan forum, I would think we could discuss displeasure with the team/coach performance?
Have a good one. Go Tigers!
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All-In [30831]
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I think it boils down to the way you present your
Jan 28, 2016, 11:24 AM
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Displeasure. What you say , what you do. How you act.
In the end though. . All you can do is show up and cheer. The rest is largely out of our hands.
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Rock Defender [53]
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I think you extrapolated a lot more out of my post than I
Jan 28, 2016, 10:21 AM
[ in reply to Yes and no ] |
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intended. I've supported this team for 20+ years. I don't crap on the team when they are mired in mediocrity. I hope for them to achieve sustained success.
If a coach consistently isn't producing the results he's being paid 7 figures to achieve, I start to question whether the coach is right for Clemson.
If a team has a continuing drop off in quality, who's fault is it?
Also, what is Tigernet for if not to discuss Clemson sports and the direction that the program is heading? Should we merely comment on what happened and not offer opinions on what could have been done differently?
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All-In [30831]
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Then I guess it comes down to the meaning
Jan 28, 2016, 11:21 AM
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Of "crappying on your Team" . It also seems you are correct on your extrapolation theory.
Thank you for the objective conversation , especially the lack of name calling. Very sophisticated.
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110%er [9028]
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Re: And here lies the root of the debate
Jan 28, 2016, 9:36 AM
[ in reply to And here lies the root of the debate ] |
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So by your reasoning, it is fine if the school pays a coach a competitive salary, but he gets non-competitive results? I agree with the expectations of your original post, but is being competitive not a part of that? A fairweather fan are all the band-wagoners that have begun following when Clemson became good (same thing happened in the 80's). Concerned fans are those who feel like the team isn't representing well and that the coach isn't developing his players. He isn't doing his job if he develops them in the classroom and doesn't on the playing field/court and thus, there is a right to question his leadership.
I think maybe we agree in principle? Not sure. Not arguing, just trying to understand.
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Scout Team [193]
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The original poster got it all wrong
Jan 28, 2016, 8:15 PM
[ in reply to And here lies the root of the debate ] |
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Brad Brownell started reading Tigernet and implementing the posters ideas and it actually worked. He is the one eating crow. Really I think it just got so bad that the guys finally loosened up and learned how to PLAY ball again. The only thing I care about with Clemson basketball is beating UNC.
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Legend [16136]
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Orange Blooded [4976]
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Re: I was down on Brownell early in the season, because I want
Jan 28, 2016, 7:41 PM
[ in reply to I was down on Brownell early in the season, because I want ] |
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No. I understand why people don't like losing. I don't understand the fans who have never had much faith in Brownell to begin with or lost what little faith they had early.
This ACC preseason was as bad as I ever felt but I didn't lose hope or think BB couldn't win big here. I just felt perplexed and disappointed, believing he will get it done next year.
I know there are lots of others who never gave up hope. I have just always thought he could and would get us to a level that most fans could accept. It was just a feeling based on what I saw.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Your "early" comment would hold water if this wasn't his 6th
Jan 28, 2016, 11:23 PM
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year. Was I unhappy with the coach in December? Yeah. Am I going to be calling for his ouster if he turns things around? No.
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110%er [9028]
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I know exactly what that means. Sorry you don't understand
Jan 28, 2016, 9:24 AM
[ in reply to I don't think that means what you think it means ] |
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the post. But stick around, you'll learn (maybe, you are a Lion's fan, so that may be in doubt).
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Orange Blooded [3839]
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Jury is still out for me***
Jan 28, 2016, 8:59 AM
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Orange Blooded [4341]
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I'm with ya Robert. The product out there now does not
Jan 28, 2016, 9:07 AM
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resemble a team that lost by 20 to UGA. Georgia?! Really?! I hope a corner has been turned. I didn't think CBB should've been fired after this year just because of the home court disadvantage, but if money is getting sunk in the john, results would have to be there by next year. My question before was is recruiting or coaching. I think he's coaching his a$$ off now. Just hope it continues. Winning brings in recruits. And don't discount the exposure the football program shines on the university. Things can be achieved in the bball program.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Not sure the basketball team is worried about making
Jan 28, 2016, 9:10 AM
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someone eat crow just the ones that support them at ALL times. Go Tigers!
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110%er [9028]
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^^^^^^^pumper.***
Jan 28, 2016, 9:39 AM
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Been a PROUD pumper for 68 years. Go Tigers!!***
Jan 28, 2016, 11:29 PM
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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Legend [16801]
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Re: This crow is delicious.
Jan 28, 2016, 11:28 AM
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I never really said anything, but my thoughts were this season was lost, especially after UGA. If lousy thinking qualifies for crow on the menu, I'm good with that. At least the feathers double as toothpicks! 
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110%er [8681]
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Re: This crow is delicious.
Jan 28, 2016, 8:16 PM
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If Blossomgame stays next year we may have a very special season.
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110%er [8681]
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Re: This crow is delicious.
Jan 28, 2016, 8:16 PM
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If Blossomgame stays next year we may have a very special season.
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Legend [16136]
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agreed***
Jan 28, 2016, 8:20 PM
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110%er [9028]
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Legend [19352]
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Re: This crow is delicious.
Jan 29, 2016, 8:41 AM
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If Blossomgame stays next year we may have a very special season.
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110%er [9028]
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Re: This crow is delicious.
Jan 29, 2016, 9:03 AM
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That is some great insight! Thanks man! Or as T'net would say: "Thanks for your insightful post!"
Go Tigers!
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