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Orange Blooded [4695]
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What say you Lunge, husband of and I have a parenting
Apr 4, 2022, 12:01 PM
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dispute.
Background: My brother in law (husband's brother) and his brats are visiting from out of state. They've alway been jerkhole kids, but my 11 year old is extra annoyed with her 10 year old cousin. He said some mean stuff to her (she's sensitive anyway, but he's a punk) and then he made fun of her when she got upset. When I was a kid, if my male cousins had said something like that to me my uncle would have whooped their butts.
Anywho, even my 7 year old said they were mean to his sister. So I told my kids that if they acted like that again, they had my permission to punch him in the face. The only thing that is going to straighten this kid out is an ### whooping, and considering my 7 year old son is taller than his 10 year old cousin (he's a tiny little mouthy kid) he can give it to them. I also told my daughter that she had no problem being sassy with everyone else so she needed to give it to him, and even gave her some zingers... like "why do you have to go to summer school, are you stupid or something?" "Why are you so short?".
Husband of says I'm out of line and that our 7 year old is going to end up punching a kid and in trouble at school, but I felt like they needed to know they don't have to take the abuse from him... especially when the adults around (my worthless brother in law and my mother in law who knows these kids are screwed and tries to overcompensate for them). My daughter would never get in trouble at school, but my not so little guy is a wild card.
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All-In [26888]
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If they understand that there is a "chain of command" to
Apr 4, 2022, 12:07 PM
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rectify issues before it escalates to violence, then I'd say you are in the clear and done your parental due diligence.
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All-In [26888]
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Also getting in trouble at school really doesn't matter.
Apr 4, 2022, 12:08 PM
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I remain dubious of this "permanent record" nonsense.
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All-In [46799]
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There really is a permanent record. I've seen it
Apr 4, 2022, 12:13 PM
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but it gets thrown away after 5 years after graduation
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110%er [6934]
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Interesting. It seems whoever named it the "permanent"
Apr 4, 2022, 12:17 PM
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record also graduated from your school.
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Oculus Spirit [80978]
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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Why even keep it that long? If I get arrested are they going
Apr 4, 2022, 12:43 PM
[ in reply to There really is a permanent record. I've seen it ] |
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to look at my prior middle school incidents and take them into account for my sentencing or something? I got into fights monthly, and got referrals weekly, it didn't seem to impact me getting into Clemson at all.
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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All-In [26888]
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Put that old ##### on the list too.***
Apr 4, 2022, 12:21 PM
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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She wouldn't have said that if I'd have been standing there
Apr 4, 2022, 12:25 PM
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when it happened.
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All-TigerNet [11244]
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All-In [47657]
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For serious answer
Apr 4, 2022, 12:12 PM
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I have no problem with kids defending themselves. As long as they are not the one being the aggressor. I would hope my kids do the same thing. The school thing could be an issue if they are in public school but hopefully that doesn't happen.
Giving them zingers to cut him down is too much IMO.
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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I'm obviously being a little tongue and cheek here but
Apr 4, 2022, 12:18 PM
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the zingers were for my 11 year old, who is a little timid lately. SHe's very smart and mature but she's at an awkward age... recently got braces and glasses and is feeling uncomfortable. She's smart and pretty and will end up winning in life but she's just got to get through this whole middle school thing.
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All-In [46799]
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My daughter is 8 and very awkward.
Apr 4, 2022, 12:20 PM
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Glad to know it gets worse before it gets better.
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Hall of Famer [24451]
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I know how you feel about her. I know you know this:
Apr 4, 2022, 12:47 PM
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If I could do one thing in life over again, not just in child raising but in everything, it would be to see my role in my daughter's life as the "I love you" role. I did say it, a lot, but I also thought I had to be the guiding influence along with her mom. If I had it to do over again I'd entrust that to mom, 100%. What she needed was a father in whom she could rest in spite of everything, good times and bad, whether the bad times were her fault or not. She'll think most things are her fault.
At about age 15 or so she'll start to look to you for insight/guidance, for obvious reasons. Let that time come to you. Middle school will be tough for her: I wish had been more of a refuge.
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Hall of Famer [24451]
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You're raising a daughter, I've raised one, we both agree
Apr 4, 2022, 12:35 PM
[ in reply to I'm obviously being a little tongue and cheek here but ] |
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on the specialness of girls and our love for them. So I think we can agree on this: The most vicious, predatory and vindictive animal on the planet is a middle school girl. I watched my son go from grammar school through middle school, and then my daughter, and compared to the first one, the second one was horrifying in terms of what I saw and heard. Nasty. In high school they seemed to have figured themselves out and left each other alone, but from age 11 to 14 it could get bad.
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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I'm one of 3 girls, so I'm well versed in girl drama...
Apr 4, 2022, 12:57 PM
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there's a delicate balance between confident and OVER confident in that age range.
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All-In [46799]
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My kids get in trouble if they don't defend themselves***
Apr 4, 2022, 12:13 PM
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All-In [46799]
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Of course that route can backfire. Like when my son
Apr 4, 2022, 12:20 PM
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choked a student on the first day of 4K for picking on a girl
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110%er [6934]
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Count me on Team KMS. Your advice to your son is sound.
Apr 4, 2022, 12:15 PM
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So long as he isn't starting anything, he should stick up for his sister. If he gives the cousin a punch in the face he may be doing the cousin a favor in the long run. Even if he isn't, it is good to stick up for your siblings against a bully.
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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Yes, I should note that the little brat didn't pick on my
Apr 4, 2022, 12:21 PM
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son because my boy is much bigger than him even though he's 3 years younger (he's pretty much a giant). My daughter is only 9 months older and a full head taller than her cousin but he chose the easier target because she's a girl.
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All-In [46799]
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Never underestimate the power of a good punch in the face
Apr 4, 2022, 12:22 PM
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can have on straightening out a kid
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Hall of Famer [24451]
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I told a 10 year old mentee the same thing. He was being
Apr 4, 2022, 12:25 PM
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bullied on the school bus, and I told him he was going to have to fight one of them. I advised that he do it on the bus so the driver is there to stop it early, but his willingness to do it seemed to stop it. There is an Andy Griffith episode about this, a guy stealing Opie's lunch money. As to making your daughter cry, you are on good ground to demand that it stop now, imo. Whether that means paddling by you - and not a little one - or intervening by his parents depends on the situation as you see it. But that part of it stops now or they leave, imo.
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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My brother in law is 50 year old cautionary tale of what
Apr 4, 2022, 12:28 PM
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happens when you don't whoop your kids when they need it.
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Hall of Famer [24451]
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The other side of the story, and what causes hesitancy to go
Apr 4, 2022, 12:57 PM
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down this road, is our understanding that if he is behaving this way, he's getting it at home. He's as much victim as perpetrator, merely acting out what is being done to him. My heart goes out to him. But in the instances you're talking about, that larger issue can't be fixed at that time and place. What your kids can and should do is make sure it stops not happening to them. How to best deal with the boy is then another matter, and an important one.
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Oculus Spirit [97664]
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My only advice...
Apr 4, 2022, 12:27 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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I agree with your tactics, but are they staying at your
Apr 4, 2022, 12:28 PM
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house? Cause if they are and BIL doesn't do anything to correct his kids behavior they could be getting a hotel room. Sometimes you just have to be the bigger asssshole.
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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Oh heck to the no, I won't even let these heathens in my
Apr 4, 2022, 12:31 PM
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house for a meal (he tore through my kids rooms years ago and no one helped clean up the mess he made).
My in laws have a house here too.
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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They sound pretty terrible, given that maybe in addition to
Apr 4, 2022, 12:40 PM
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punching him in the face you and the kids could get together and start replying to everything they say with "that's why you still pee the bed every night like your daddy you loser" or something along those lines. Humiliation can work just as well as a physical beating. Either way, clearly the best option is to make it so his kids want to actively avoid yours so you can avoid any future drama. You know the old saying, if someone is going to hate you, give that MFer a reason.
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Hall of Famer [21205]
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So, when my boy was 5,
Apr 4, 2022, 12:59 PM
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There was a kid in his class that was bullying... well, everyone. My boy was starting to not like going to 5k. He is extremely sweet, but extremely tough too. I talked to him...
This was about a 10 minute conversation because I wanted him to know that this was an exception. But I explained to him that I hardly ever want him to resort to violence. He knows our rule is to not hit, stay in control or yourself. I told him, the next time that boy does anything to him or another kid in his class, to go up to him, and punch him as hard as he can in the nose. This was the only exception.
He asked about getting in trouble with his teacher and being sent to the principle. I told him, do not worry about that, I will take care of everything and he will not be in trouble with me. I have got your back. I told him I would even talk to his teacher.
The next day, I took him to school. I went to his teacher and told her my boy was having an issue with the other kid. I explained to her what I told him. Her response... they have known he was an issue, they have talked to his parents and of course their kid is a perfect angel. She said, she promises, if my boy ended up punching him, she never saw a thing.
The kid moved the next week. I do not think that my boy ever hit him... granted, I dont think it would have ever been brought up if he did.
Anywho, I would make sure your children know that this is an exception and almost 100% of the time, not the way to handle things.
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All-In [46799]
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Happened to me when I was in middle school
Apr 4, 2022, 1:22 PM
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two cousins were bullying everybody but took a shine to me.
My dad told me either I hit them or I'd get it from him when I got home.
I jumped over the cafeteria table and went after both of them.
My dad showed up to school to meet with the assistant principal and said "Yeah I told him to do that"
AP said, sir that's not how we do things here.
Dad said, well he told the teacher and you and nothing happened. So that's how we do things and that's how they will be done from now on.
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All-In [42021]
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Seems like a bigger talk needs to be had with BIL
Apr 4, 2022, 1:00 PM
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Because if his kids act this way, in basically a bullying fashion, there's a good chance they're on the receiving end of something similar at home. Maybe getting pummeled by a 7 year old will teach the kid a lesson, but maybe not if there's a bigger problem here. It may even embolden the little #### to seek vengeance at a later time... and play to win.
IMO, the source of the problem is your BIL. Or his wife. Or both.
EDIT: Honestly, a more powerful message is probably you and your husband stating, "Get your house in order and you don't come back to visit until you do. We won't tolerate this behavior anymore."
Message was edited by: Catahoula®
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Hall of Famer [24451]
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Agree. How the immediate situation is handled is one thing,
Apr 4, 2022, 1:06 PM
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but yes, what he is doing is what is being done to him. You and I posted the same thing at the same time.
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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The problem is that BIL and SIL are idiots and horrible
Apr 4, 2022, 1:09 PM
[ in reply to Seems like a bigger talk needs to be had with BIL ] |
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parents. They have never had a single thing they have earned themselves in their lives, bro in law works at my inlaws business because he can't get a job because of his record. Mother In law has made excuses for him his whole life. He had to get his GED because he was kicked out of high school.
Sister in law's dad owns a bar and she manages it. She might have actually graduated from high school at least. When her kids were little she told me she didn't have time to read to them because she was just so tired when she got home from work.
I don't think they are abusive, they are just very different people raising their kids very differently than most people my kids interact with. They just tend to let the kids do whatever they want and only occasionally will just yell at them.
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All-In [42021]
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Gotcha
Apr 4, 2022, 1:11 PM
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I hate to say it, but one of your kids kicking their kid's ### won't fix all that. It might frighten him into better behavior. But it also may escalate the problem. If he's a real little ####, and he can't win in a straight up fight, he'll look for other methods.
A complete bannination until behavior improves may be your only way.
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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HOnestly, my kids aren't going to punch him in the face
Apr 4, 2022, 1:18 PM
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my point is that they don't have to take his ####.
I basically broke it down for them that he is poorly behaved, that it's not ok and that if my two kids would join forces and give him a taste of insults they hurl at each other he will shut up quickly.
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All-TigerNet [11244]
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Re: HOnestly, my kids aren't going to punch him in the face
Apr 4, 2022, 1:36 PM
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Maybe if you punched your BIL in the nose in front of the kids, then everyone would be on the same page?
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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He's 6'4" and I'm 5'8"
Apr 4, 2022, 1:41 PM
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but I don't think he would mess with me. I wouldn't punch him, but in a verbal battle I would 100 percent win.
I'm nice and polite, until you mess with my cubs.
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All-In [42021]
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You can hit a throat
Apr 4, 2022, 1:45 PM
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Always go through for the throat. Far less chance of hurting your hand and far more incapacitating for the opponent.
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Oculus Spirit [79114]
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I generally think that any parent who tells their kid to hit
Apr 4, 2022, 1:01 PM
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another kid is pretty trashy advice. It's your husband's brother...make him sort it out. If he can't rationalize with his brother, then he should kick his ###. And if you can't get your man in line then you go straight up to your brother in law and flash him your tids and say, "WHAT NOW BYTCH"
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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I don't disagree that the husband should try to sort it out
Apr 4, 2022, 1:07 PM
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with his brother, but this 'run tell a teacher so mommy can take care of all my problems' mindset is why we have grown adults who would rather call the cops over an insignificant grievance rather than just having a basic conversation with someone.
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Oculus Spirit [79114]
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I think there's a difference though. Avoiding a physical
Apr 4, 2022, 1:10 PM
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altercation, doesn't mean you can't confront them. We shouldn't be teaching kids to punch others in the face.
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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You can't really confront a bully without being prepared for
Apr 4, 2022, 1:16 PM
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physical violence, it's kind of a law of nature. Kids should be taught that it's OK to defend themselves, and sometimes that requires punching someone in the face.
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All-In [42021]
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I don't think that applies...
Apr 4, 2022, 1:23 PM
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If the one doing the bullying isn't using physical violence himself or threatening it. Then the kid is getting in worse trouble or even setting up for more problems down the road if he thinks he needs to punch everyone who he perceives is bullying him.
Besides, there are far more damaging ways to take care of them without taking a swing.
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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Sure it doesn't, probably even more so
Apr 4, 2022, 1:28 PM
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Mouthy people don't mess with people they know might whip their ###. It's why you see so many people try to pick fights with football players at bars and stuff, in their mind that guy isn't going to do #### because of the consequences he'll face.
What's the kid supposed to do if a well reasoned conversation with the bully doesn't remedy his sister getting picked on? Spread a rumor about him on Facebook?
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All-In [42021]
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Shave his head in his sleep.
Apr 4, 2022, 1:30 PM
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Cut a #### and balls in it.
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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Husband of and BIL have very little relationship
Apr 4, 2022, 1:13 PM
[ in reply to I don't disagree that the husband should try to sort it out ] |
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Pretty sure husband of has whooped his ### and gotten him out of getting his ### whooped by others (he's the older brother) but he pretty much thinks he's a waste of space.
They also defer to my MIL for a lot of parenting.
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Oculus Spirit [79114]
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Well, did you try my other suggestion
Apr 4, 2022, 1:19 PM
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and flash him your tids?
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CU Medallion [64837]
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you could practice in the lunge.***
Apr 4, 2022, 1:35 PM
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All-In [42021]
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But also consider...
Apr 4, 2022, 1:16 PM
[ in reply to I don't disagree that the husband should try to sort it out ] |
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When taking on matters like this, you gotta think in chess terms with your opponent: What are all his possible moves? What's the most outrageous thing he could do?
A 10 year old isn't going to respond to violence rationally. The only good outcome is he learns his lesson. Based on what KMS is saying, that seems doubtful. I would wager he instead looks for alternative revenge, or, possibly even worse, he winds up beating the 7 year old's ### (size ain't always a factor in a fight). This kid already acts without fear of retaliation.
Then, what happens with the relationship with the family? Especially when BIL finds out 7 year old was instructed to attack? He won't listen to rational logic after that.
I'm all about kids learning to defend themselves but this seems like it may just escalate the problem.
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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This is your basic predator/prey dynamic, showing weakness
Apr 4, 2022, 1:23 PM
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will only serve to further the bullying. We're not dealing with a Mexican Cartel here, we're dealing with a little mouthy 10 year old with no discipline. The basic problem sounds like he's never experienced any retaliation for his actions via parental punishment, nor has her daughter fought back. There's no incentive for him to stop....Yet.
Who cares about the relationship with the family? If they're on board with my kid getting bullied by their cousins and nothing being done about it they can get fukt too. In fact, I'd probably get ahead of things and go ahead and tell BIL my sons got the go ahead from me to knock your little boy out if he continues his BS.
Escalation is exactly what you want, become more of a hassle to mess with than it's worth.
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All-In [42021]
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And then if little #### does something worse...
Apr 4, 2022, 1:29 PM
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To retaliate? If he's a little sociopath in training, he won't stop until he wins and won't care who he hurts.
I feel like it would do far more damage to meet with all of em and explain that they aren't welcome here anymore because they all don't know how to behave properly. And let the kid hear it. Humiliate the #### out of them all. Tear them down.
I'm not saying the little ####### doesn't deserve a good punch. I just thinks the cons may outweigh the pros in this situation.
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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Unless he's also a gang member I'd be pretty confident that
Apr 4, 2022, 1:35 PM
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would put an end to the nonsense. If he decided to continue his little terror campaign then it's time to go beat his daddy's ###. Totally agree with the humiliation angle, though.
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All-In [42021]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38173
Joined: 11/30/98
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I try my best to remember...
Apr 4, 2022, 1:44 PM
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The teachings of Sun Tzu when dealing with any conflict. Seriously. Don't laugh. It works.
Two things I remember:
1. Never underestimate your enemy.
2. Never back your enemy in a corner or a situation where he can't escape.
So if a full-on assault will work, sure, but it's always good to remember these strategies. If 7 year old is convincing enough, a very specific ultimatum given: "Say something to my sister again and I will (very specific and horrifying act of violence) to you." Simultaneously terrify him and give him an opportunity to back down.
And remember this one for the attack:
Attack their weaknesses and use surprise. So maybe a good throat punch.
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63266
Joined: 10/30/05
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Problem is if they don't back down, you've got to be ready
Apr 4, 2022, 2:20 PM
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to follow through with the threat or look like a chump, which would likely make the bullying situation worse. Unless you've got a history of that sort of thing, in all likelihood they will test your resolve. Nobody fears the #### talker, they fear the guy who they know will react quickly and decisively if provoked. You've got to show you're willing to be that guy before you start giving ultimatums.
I do enjoy how we've taken a conversation about a 10 year old bully being mean to kms's little girl and turned it into a tactical discussion about street fighting and Sun Tzu. Truly the lunge at it's finest. That said, I do think middle class people have woefully inadequate street smarts/skills. They walk around like we're living on Sesame Street with zero survival instinct or self awareness, it's kind of pathetic. A lot of them let other people flat out treat them like #### and walk all over them. Now there's certainly a line between acting like a civilized person and a savage, but geeze have some dignity and self respect. Not talking about you at all just in general.
My BIL has a friend who likes to laugh about getting mugged 4 times, it's like #### dude after the first couple of times you'd think you'd be a little more aware and prepared. But he's an easy mark, and doesn't do anything to change that. If you gave me a lineup of 10 people to mug, he'd be in my top 2 or 3 every time.
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Orange Blooded [4695]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2186
Joined: 5/21/05
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This is 100 percent the way I was raised.
Apr 4, 2022, 1:31 PM
[ in reply to This is your basic predator/prey dynamic, showing weakness ] |
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This is daughter's first encounter with being treated this way.
I won't be putting my kids in this position again. (I wasn't there and only found out it after the fact)
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All-In [43576]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 18033
Joined: 4/24/15
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WOMEN AND DRAMA
Apr 4, 2022, 1:18 PM
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SMH.
11 year old and 7 year old "LASS TIME WE SAW THEM THEY WERE MEAN".
MOM "PUNCHEM IN THE FACE NEXT TIME".
So we have current drama about alleged old drama, and the forecasted new drama has elevated to face punching instructions...you know in case the current drama elevates to forecased new drama levels, all elevated by the long memory of the alleged old drama (MEAN!) exacerbated by the drama mama.
Women find great unhappiness in the absence of drama.
This would not create any happiness among females, but I'd prolly be like "mean? your sensitive. How about lets' approach this visit with a good attitdude". BUT DAD WHAT IF THEY ARE MEAN TO ME? I dunno, what if they are really nice to you? I'M JUST SAYIN, DAD! I too am engaging in just sayin, darlin.
Let me know if they are mean but like goodgreif go clean your room. And get off that GD phone. And do your homework. And bring me a beer. KAY?
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Orange Blooded [4695]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2186
Joined: 5/21/05
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Nope, i'm all for ending the drama.
Apr 4, 2022, 1:21 PM
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WITH MY FIST.
Roll eyes.
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CU Medallion [64837]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 22718
Joined: 9/27/04
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I agree with your husband.
Apr 4, 2022, 1:36 PM
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I didn't read any of this, but I think siding with a man is nearly always a safe bet.
50% of the time, it works all the time.
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Heisman Winner [135480]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 91593
Joined: 12/6/98
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I don't have any girls, but I'm thinking the proper response
Apr 4, 2022, 2:36 PM
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would be for your daughter to have a razor-sharp fixed blade knife handy so she can sneak up behind the mouthy cousin and slice the tendon behind the knee. As he's frantically trying to crawl away from her, she can kick him in the ribs just enough to adjust the brat's attitude for the rest of his life. In reality, she's doing him a favor. So...you can go the practical route that I've just laid out for you, or you can listen to the volumes of psychobabble posted by the amateur child psychologists above.
YOUR CHOICE.
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