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Orange Blooded [4995]
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An early Christian writer commenting on the Flood
Dec 26, 2017, 9:15 PM
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argues that the story is an allegory for how to survive as a church in a hostile/evil world.
There are things in scripture that are clearly allegorical....why could this not be one of them?
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Legend [17734]
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Seriously?
Dec 26, 2017, 11:10 PM
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The was no "church" when the Flood came. There was no Temple when the Flood came. In fact, the basis for the flood was that the world had completely rejected God...
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Seriously?
Dec 27, 2017, 8:45 AM
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Don’t shoot the messenger. I came across this in a book I’m currently reading. It was an early church father writing in the mid second century. Supposedly a lot of them believed in a more allegorical interpretation of scripture than literal.
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All-In [41710]
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The Flood story was borrowed from Epic of Gilgamesh
Dec 27, 2017, 9:29 AM
[ in reply to Seriously? ] |
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There's nothing wrong with taking a story and adjusting it to today's standards to make it allegorical and more meaningful.
Those clinging to the idea that this work of fiction actually happened only hurt the cause for their religion. It pushes people away.
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All-In [38514]
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I believe there is often more meaning in viewing biblical
Dec 27, 2017, 10:52 AM
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stories as non-literal over literal. Take the multiplying of the fish and loaves. If viewed as a miracle where Jesus multiplied the food, where is the lesson? If viewed that Jesus encouraged sharing of what was there then it's a powerful and meaningful story.
Seems like taking the bible literally would lead one to sit around and wait for a miracle where looking for the allegory allows lessons that can be lived by.
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All-In [28802]
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Both are awfully meaningful, I'd say
Dec 27, 2017, 2:46 PM
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The kind of "meaning" you're implying both changes the point of the story to fit an entirely different agenda, and empties the importance out of the story. It makes Jesus nothing more than another nice teacher, and one that's just teaching the kinds of nice things that are easily palatable for nice, liberal, democratic societies. I can't imagine why so many people would care about this kind of thing.
As it's written and usually interpreted, it's another proof of the unique power of God in Jesus, of the kind of miracles Jesus would perform, and it points to what Jesus actually did teach (rather than inviting later allegorizing of the story by people with other agendas). Christians care about what Jesus taught because of who he was, not because it's a bunch of nice things to believe. And who he was has to do with the things he actually did- like perform miracles.
I will say that the way you want to read things like that is pretty common, as far as I can tell, in liberal theology. Although, I'm not sure all liberal theologians would go as far as just claiming that we can just change what's written in the Bible about miracles to fit certain modern sensibilities.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Both are awfully meaningful, I'd say
Dec 30, 2017, 9:08 AM
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It makes Jesus a nice teacher? He was still born to an immaculately conceived virgin and rose from the dead.
None of my teachers ever did that.
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All-In [28802]
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Whose conclusion is this?
Dec 27, 2017, 2:26 PM
[ in reply to The Flood story was borrowed from Epic of Gilgamesh ] |
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Similar stories coming up might just indicate a similar, factual, original source rather than that one story was copied from another. I'm not sure it's extremely important whether you believe the Biblical flood actually happened in the way it's usually read as happening, though. Other Biblical historical claims are much more important.
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All-TigerNet [13603]
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All-TigerNet [13603]
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Orange Blooded [4945]
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Re: The Flood story was borrowed from Epic of Gilgamesh
Dec 30, 2017, 12:39 AM
[ in reply to The Flood story was borrowed from Epic of Gilgamesh ] |
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There are many extremely intelligent and educated persons that recognize Catastrophism as a fact of the Earth's history. Many catastrophes changed the course of human history and obliterated evidence of other earlier catastrophes. Books, dissertations, and films on this subject are not hard to find if one cares to search. Yes there was such a thing as Noah's flood, and it wasn't the first such event. Happy researching! There was no need for anyone to borrow another culture's story of a flood. It was common knowledge for all civilizations that experienced it. They all passed the memory on to their posterity, orally or through writing.
Message was edited by: orangecoloredglasses®
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: The Flood story was borrowed from Epic of Gilgamesh
Dec 30, 2017, 8:57 PM
[ in reply to The Flood story was borrowed from Epic of Gilgamesh ] |
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There are a lot of similarities but enough differences that the Genesis account doesn’t look to be dependent on the Gilgamesh flood. Both could have been from one earlier source and the Jews were unlikely to borrow from pagan sources.
The fact that there are multiple accounts of a worldwide flood from many different cultures is an argument in favor of there being one.
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Heisman Winner [110274]
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Re: An early Christian writer commenting on the Flood
Dec 27, 2017, 12:24 PM
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like genesis being an allegorical reference to evolution?, brilliant really.
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CU Guru [1878]
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I actually think it's to be translated literally
Dec 27, 2017, 3:28 PM
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It just seems likely that there was an actual large Tsunami that flooded the known world (the fertile crescent) and was recorded as an act of God.
We know they happen every few decades and can be quite devastating. The 2004 Indonesian Tsunami killed 230,000 people and that was just this century.
Can you imagine what ancient peoples wrote down about the tsunami 8,000 years ago triggered in Sicily that flooded the entire Mediterranean sea inland hundreds of miles?
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All-In [48078]
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2 of every animal in the Arc too?*****
Dec 30, 2017, 7:27 AM
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CU Guru [1878]
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Re: 2 of every animal in the Arc too?*****
Jan 5, 2018, 2:48 PM
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That's actually borrowed directly from the Epic of Gilgamesh, so no probably not that.
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