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Legend [19567]
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Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 9:05 AM
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honestly been prepared for them since all the close losses in Nov-Dec. Been a pattern under Brad that if we struggle in Nov-Dec, the ACC likely isn't any better. Some random thoughts:
My number one concern, whether Brad stays or goes, is P.J. Hall remaining at Clemson. He's the most talented player we've had since Trevor Booker, and has more offensive skills than Book. If he decides to portal to a top notch program, Brad is done. Next year will be awful no matter who the coach is. P.J. still has some things to work on for the pros, but can he better develop here, with a lacking supporting cast, or elsewhere? I don't like my answer there.
If P.J. portals, cut bait with Brad immediately. Next year will be worse, no since in waiting. Give a new guy a year to begin to establish things.
If P.J. stays, still think it's up in the air regarding Brad. If Brad is fired, or moved in to administration, the new guy would have to sell P.J. on his ability to surround him with imported portal talent to help immediately, and an ability to continue to develop him. Under Brad, we have not recruited impact freshmen. And the returnees all lack in key areas.
Brad's buyout is about as school friendly as you can get. This was done with purpose by the administration. It is structured to be affordable.
The apathy in regards to basketball is palpable. Hasn't been this way since Shyatt's final few years. I don't think that can be overcome by this staff.
If we move on we need to be willing to take a risk. The goal, a sustainable program with a coach who desires to be at Clemson long term. Obviously something we've never had. You may find that up and come at a lower level, but I'd rather take a bigger risk, and that would be Greg Buckner.
Many schools have gone the NBA route lately. Howard at Mich, Stackhouse at Vandy, Hardaway at Memphis, Johnson formerly at Bama, to varying degrees of success. Howard is the only one at the school he came from, and he's had the most success. What would Buck bring?
Hall of Fame caliber alum, NBA career as a player and coach, passion for his school, and I believe long term commitment. I'd like to see Tree Rollins as a top assistant, now with a degree and eligible to coach. Mentor to big men and many years as a head coach in the WNBA and assistant in the NBA. Both these guys care deeply about Clemson. Both communicate very well. Give Buck the resources to hire some experienced recruiters, I'd actually look at retaining Dean.
Whether it's this year or next, I believe Brad's future here is done. Time to move forward.
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All-TigerNet [11424]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 9:14 AM
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I like Buckner, but still think there are some very good mid major coaches who would do a good job. If Buckner is hired, he would have to bring in a big time quality experienced coach to help him with landscape of ins and outs of college coaching and recruiting. Buck has no college coaching experience. I think they need to let Brad go regardless what PJ does. You do your best to keep him but the program is too stale, and not enough to help him now, or what is coming in.
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Legend [19567]
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That's been our approach with every hire since
Feb 16, 2022, 10:56 AM
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Tates Locke. Time to step out of that box. Kids want the chance to play in the league. Our chances of landing a guy with a track record of that are nil. So get a guy who knows what it takes to play in the league through playing and coaching. And alum to boot
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110%er [5992]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 9:16 AM
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Nice post. As far as current college coaches, I am intrigued by Niko Medved at Colorado St. MWC school, but at 20-3 this year, and 3 straight 20-win seasons, would probably wax Clemson. He got that job by the way he got Furman rolling. However, I would love to see Buck at least get a look. Tree may help him get the staff off to a good start, but he must be pushing 70.
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CU Medallion [51879]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 11:36 AM
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Tree is 66.
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CU Medallion [67659]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 1:00 PM
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which has no relevance to coaching expertise or lack of
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110%er [5992]
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Usually relevant when a guy wants to hang it up***
Feb 16, 2022, 1:47 PM
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110%er [5992]
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Of course, it looks like Tree has not coached since he left the bench
Feb 16, 2022, 2:05 PM
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of a WNBA team in 2015, so he may have already parked it...unless he hears "Mama calling."
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Legend [19567]
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110%er [6692]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 9:16 AM
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I agree with you about Hall being awesome etc etc, but I get rid of CBB even if it meant Hall transfers.
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CU Medallion [58367]
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Great suggestions. Either way, it's never been more clear
Feb 16, 2022, 9:30 AM
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that Brownell is done. I really do think he is a great guy and a good coach, but he was never able to get over the hump at Clemson. Here it takes a strong personality and a strong recruiter and Brad just ain't it. I don't know what happens to his buyout if he resigns, but I think he is smart enough and honorable enough to realize that he is done at Clemson, and leaves here on good terms, or moves into some other position. He gave it his all but it is time. I can't possibly imagine any scenario in which he is our coach after this year.
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All-In [31199]
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Re: Great suggestions. Either way, it's never been more clear
Feb 16, 2022, 10:36 AM
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Great read and I agree bringing him back in my mind sets us farther back than we already are.
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Orange Blooded [4550]
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Re: Great suggestions. Either way, it's never been more clear
Feb 16, 2022, 9:35 PM
[ in reply to Great suggestions. Either way, it's never been more clear ] |
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Respectfully, I don’t get the “great guy” stuff that’s always thrown around when mentioning CBB. “Great guys” don’t typically admittedly berate their star players and CONSTANTLY throw his players under the bus after losses like he does. Personally, I’ve been ready for a change for several years now.
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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Hall may be frustrated with Brownell and ready for a change.
Feb 16, 2022, 9:37 AM
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Bringing in a new guy may be our best bet to keep him around.
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All-TigerNet [11424]
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Re: Hall may be frustrated with Brownell and ready for a change.
Feb 16, 2022, 9:49 AM
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I will say that Hall really seems to love Clemson. He is close to home and that is a bonus. A good coach with a strong resume will be able to keep him at Clemson. I think idea for the new coach is to keep coach Dean who is the main big man coach, and a pretty good recruiter is ideal.
Now if PJ decides to go pro that is all out the window.
But you still have to make that change.
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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A few games ago, Hall left the huddle during a timeout and
Feb 16, 2022, 10:21 AM
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seemed to be angry. Not certain which game it was, maybe NC or Duke, but it sure seemed he was stomping away from Coach Brownell. The coaches were looking at him with surprise.
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Orange Blooded [4603]
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Re: A few games ago, Hall left the huddle during a timeout and
Feb 16, 2022, 10:57 AM
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There is not another star player in the ACC who has taken the verbal abuse from his head coach that PJ has. I have watched time and again that our guards can throw the ball away, dribble into trouble and have the ball stolen and make so many dumb turnovers and BB never says a word, yet when PJ come to the bench during a timeout, BB is in his face screaming at the poor kid and PJ just says "Yes Sir" and takes it. BB seems to love embarrassing PJ in public while letting others get away with sloppy play. If PJ transfers, I would not blame him one bit. Just think how this looks to potential recruits. They don't want to be part of that garbage.
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Orange Blooded [4550]
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Re: A few games ago, Hall left the huddle during a timeout and
Feb 16, 2022, 9:55 PM
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I’ve seen the same thing, and it’s appalling. It goes beyond a coach simply motivating his player. Pretty dumb to publicly berate the player who’s keeping you from getting blown out every night, and clearly giving it 100% even while injured.
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Orange Blooded [4444]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 9:50 AM
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Striperfan, you have hit the button once again. I support all you say. What about Wes Miller, Tommy Amaker. Chris Mack, or Dayton Flier coach. I do like having two of our own who could rally former players. NC people wanted Miller over current coach and Duke people wanted Amaker over current coach in waiting. Got to have a change this year. Neff has been here for 8 years. He knows of Brads struggles
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Legend [19567]
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I'm thinking outside the box we've used
Feb 16, 2022, 12:55 PM
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for 50 years
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Orange Blooded [4444]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 9:54 AM
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Hall is one of the nicest guys ever. Strong faith and he came here not because of Brownell but Clemson. He might just stay if approached well by a good new coach
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110%er [6293]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 10:09 AM
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I’m concerned that if we hire a really top notch coach, the basketball team might get so good that they start taking NIL opportunities away from football players. There’s only so much money to go around. Do we really want that?
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All-In [31199]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 10:23 AM
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Striper as always a pleasure to read your post. Hope all is well with you and your family around chicken country. I agree we are done with what we have. With the current roster concerning injuries I do not really want to say a whole lot about the coach because as of today team morale has tanked and we are not healthy. But the overall body of work leaves a lot to be desired and that’s why I feel a change is needed. Buckner would be worth a shot not like things can get a whole lot worse. Whomever or whatever they decide I just want to be able to be interested in Clemson basketball again. Watching them find ways to lose games has caused me to take a break for a good while now. Folks have views from all sides and I respect others opinions even if they differ without name calling but whatever the issue is with the admin and or coach a change is needed. This is who he is and that may be great at a school like Coastal.
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All-In [48055]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 10:33 AM
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I'd probably lean towards Buckner. Someone that has a vested interest in Clemson. As others stated, keep Dean and he'd need help as nctigs pointed out.
Have been good suggestions and no coach would interview and NOT say they wanted to leave in a few years. What happens if MedDev? sp comes and has success? Does he leave for a Duke, or Texas should an offer come? Who knows. So I'd say as best we could, find someone that would stick.
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CU Guru [1074]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 10:28 AM
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Football motto: The best is standard
Basketball motto: Close enough is OK
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Hall of Famer [22447]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 11:28 AM
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I thought the basketball motto was: don’t challenge football about who’s best.
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Legend [19567]
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I want a coach who would do just that
Feb 16, 2022, 1:02 PM
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pretty sure Dabo wouldn't mind. A new hoops coach needs to embrace football's success and seek to emulate it. Remember when Barnes worked the tailgate show for football? He didn't run from it, he sought to make basketball appealing as well. He connected with fans, stood up to the big boys, and he won. That's why so many were angry when he left. He related and fought, we've had no one before or since him who has done that
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All-In [48055]
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Re: I want a coach who would do just that
Feb 16, 2022, 1:44 PM
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Everything you've said is spot on and I pray that Neff will hear it. I'll certainly back it 100%.
We've always fallen into the trap of thinking the next good mid major coach was The One... Yada yada. We certainly don't need a traveler and be right back where we were with purnel. And we certainly aren't going to get Few to leave gonzaga. Nor do we need a possible auburn coach.
Let's do it. It's kinda what we did with Dabo. Count me in.
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All-In [31199]
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Re: I want a coach who would do just that
Feb 16, 2022, 2:54 PM
[ in reply to I want a coach who would do just that ] |
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Loved Rick Barnes. Closest I have ever felt to Clemson feeling like an elite team in basketball.
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Starter [372]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 2:01 PM
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Hall is here because of Lucas McKay. Also Eli, Skara. And Lucas was the one that saw six and tried to get it corrected.
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Starter [353]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 4:46 PM
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How is PJ here because of Lucas? Don't get me wrong, Lucas is a great guy who I have a lot of respect for, but he wasn't even at Clemson when we were recruiting PJ. He left for a couple of years and just came back last year.
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Starter [372]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 6:41 PM
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Flew him back from Kansas City for the official visit. He had with PJ and family before.
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110%er [9661]
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Orange Blooded [4101]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 3:27 PM
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Blow it up! BB has had a WAY longer leash than he has earned. Nice guy etc, etc. Fact is that he has been WELL compensated to perform in a mediocre at best manner. Fire me all day if you had paid me 2 million for the last 12 years And I do agree that going Mid-Major had been tried plenty, let's go a different route. I don't care if it's a Pro, Duke guy or anyone other than a Chicken.
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All-In [48055]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 3:39 PM
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Amen to that. We double downed on your last statement with Monte in baseball. A mid major coach who recently was a coot.
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Legend [17520]
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110%er [9661]
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Excellent comments.
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Feb 16, 2022, 4:22 PM
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Not sure if I agree with the Greg Buckner idea, but it’s one I would totally support if that’s what admin decides to do.
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All-TigerNet [11424]
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Starter [353]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 4:41 PM
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Basketball is life to Brad. He eats, sleeps, and breathes it. I don't see him taking an administrative roll and a pay cut. We are going to have to cut ties completely. Recruiting ability has to be the #1 criteria when hiring his replacement. That's been Brad's biggest failure. When #### Bender is your top assistant, that tells the story. No kid gets excited about coming to play for Brad and ####. Sorry, but it's true. Hire someone with energy, charisma, integrity, and passion for the school. The rest will take care of itself.
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Orange Blooded [3612]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 6:31 PM
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Striper, level-headed as always.
I can't disagree with any of it. I've been pleasantly surprised that the Tigers have been as competitive as they have considering the roster in May. BB's inability to recruit impact Freshmen, and inability to retain promising Sophomores will ultimately be what costs him, IMO.
I still hope one day Clemson fans will learn to discuss basketball more than just hoping for a coaching change. Maybe you're right--maybe a new coach will create the interest for people to actually make observations.
The other day someone said Clemson was no worse as a basketball town than Lubbock, TX. However, Lubbock (home of TCU) has a population of over 240K. Spokane, WA (home of Gonzaga) also has 240K+. Clemson, SC has 16K. So far as size of the school,, Clemson compares with Notre Dame and Miami (both with obvious cultural drawing cards) and Wake Forest. You gotta hope that if Dabo can recruit 85 guys here, a basketball coach can bring 13. And keep them??
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Team Captain [499]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 6:51 PM
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I agree it’s time to make a change. Brad’s success has come from transfers primarily, Finally PJ is an elite high school guy he’s has recruited.
One of the hosts on 105.5 The Roar mentioned that PJ‘s girlfriend is a Clemson student. Maybe that helps him stick around. I am really impressed with him. For him to perform the way he has with the foot injury is amazing. I expect for him to break out in a big way next year and average 20+ points.
If we make a coaching change, I just hope PJ stays at Clemson. I actually watch the games only because of him at this point. You just see him getting better and better every game.
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All-TigerNet [13693]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 9:58 PM
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A lot of coherent thoughts in this post. Thank you-
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: Been quiet regarding the basketball struggles
Feb 16, 2022, 11:22 PM
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Lack of Judge K controversial posts. Even Coach Brownell wife gave up after this year of year and she can't defend him any longer. Im sure JK , ( CBB) wife is looking for job interviews in the mid tier programs.
Good luck Mrs Brownell!
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Orange Blooded [4024]
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It has been so long since we were relevant, many have just
Feb 17, 2022, 12:46 PM
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stopped paying attention. I was last active in board hoops discussions 5 or 6 years ago. College basketball used to be my favorite sport. When DRad extended BB several years ago after not making the tournament multiple years in a row, I decided it was too painful to pay attention.
But if we were to have a winning program with the expectation of dancing more often than not, I’d be right back to passionate observer. I say that to emphasize that winning solves everything. If we were tourney contenders, the fans would again return with the passion that made playing at LJ a trip to the den of Hell.
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