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Fan [96]
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Read everyday, rarely post (long)
May 31, 2014, 11:10 PM
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What makes a good coach? Winning the conference? Making the NCAA tournament? Keeping Tiger fans excited?
I will admit, I think our baseball team should do better, but compared to what? As I have seen all the fire Jack bull the past couple of months, I decided to look at some numbers. Feel free to correct my numbers, I did this after getting TIRED of all the posts. Let's look at Clemson coaches, regardless of sport, through the history.
In a given sport, whether tournament or bowl game, about 64 teams make a NCAA Tournament. And I only referenced the Big 3
Basketball (A sport as Clemson fans, we accept mediocracy)
Cliff Ellis. 10 years. 3 NCAA Tournaments. 30%
Oliver Purnell. 7 years. 3 NCAA Tournaments. 43%
Brad Brownell. 4 years. 1 NCAA Tiurnament. 25%
Football (A sport as Clemson fans, we LOVE)
Frank Howard (I get he meant more to the University than a football coach, so I don't really count his record as relevant. Although he is in the Ring of Honor for Football)
30 years. 6 bowl games. ( I know there weren't 500 bowl games then). 20%
Danny Ford. (Ring of Honor, well deserved for the most prestigious Championship in school history)
12 years. 8 Bowl games. 67%
Kenny Hatfield ((Misleading numbers, because who couldn't win with the Danny players he inherited?)
4 years. 3 bowl games. 75%
Tommy Bowden. 10 years. 8 Bowl games. 80%
( I know he qualified for 9 Bowl games, but nobody would have gone after that season faded the way it did)
Baseball
Bill Wilhelm (A legend, and well deserved member of Ring of Honor for his contributions to the University)
45 years. 17 NCAA Tournament. 38%
Jack Leggett ( The man 98% of the people who post want fired)
21 years. 20 NCAA Tournaments. 95%
We are not going to win the National Championship every year. NOBODY does! We are a VERY good Baseball program that is relevant EVERY year,
By the way, for all those in the Carolina area, don't forget. Friday August 8. The Clemson Bills will be visiting the Panthers.
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CU Guru [1620]
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Thanks Jack, I for one will miss you***
May 31, 2014, 11:18 PM
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Fan [96]
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Re: So what do you expect out of the next coach?
May 31, 2014, 11:24 PM
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Super Regional, every year? Host every year? National Championship every 3 years? Just curious
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CU Guru [1620]
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Re: So what do you expect out of the next coach?
May 31, 2014, 11:29 PM
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Not getting beat 18 to 1 in any regional.. A team not crapping their pants in the post season when they do have great seasons..being somewhat competitive with our rival..That would be a start don't you think? Baseball has a a lot of psychology involved, like other sports the team feeds off of its coach, even gray talent--See Tommy Bowden.. Nothing Leggett changes can deny the fact that he is wound tight as hell and his team struggles agains S. Carolina and in post season..Not to mention the high school players in S Carolina aren't giving the program much of a look now days..
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110%er [5962]
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Fan [96]
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Re: Good question.
May 31, 2014, 11:40 PM
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Unrealisticaly, I would love to beat SCU & win the ACC, & National Championship every year. That being said. I think we are a team that nobody really looks forward to playing, because we can beat any team on a given day. Should we win more than we do. Probably. But we are still in a. Pretty darn good place, overall.
Just my opinion. We all want the best, but we are not a bad team!
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All-Conference [410]
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CU Guru [1949]
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I'm not old enough to know the answer to this...
May 31, 2014, 11:27 PM
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but did our fans want Wilhelm fired too? We had some pretty "average" 5-year stretches with him as well.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: I'm not old enough to know the answer to this...
Jun 1, 2014, 2:00 AM
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No, according to everything I've read on Tnet Coach Wilhelm went to the CWS every season and Jack Leggett merely coasted on his success for a couple seasons before DESTROYING our baseball program.
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All-Conference [401]
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Hard to make the comparison although you acknowledge it
May 31, 2014, 11:32 PM
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You mention bowl game numbers have changed. Used to just be 5-6 bowls while Howard was there. However the same is similar for baseball. It was not a 64 team tournament until 1999 in baseball, and for many of those years it was less than 30. With that said, the first 6-7 years of Leggett's tenure it was only 48 teams which he made every time and we hosted several (equivalent to a national seed).
Points are valid, but numbers are deceiving (mainly in that Wilhelm's numbers would be higher likely by today's standards)
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Orange Blooded [2236]
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My take...long
May 31, 2014, 11:49 PM
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I'm a baseball guy, have been my whole life. I'm no expert but I've made a few observations this year...first sign of adversity this team tightens up and the routine becomes difficult. It's like watching Steve Sax or Chuck Knoblauch suddenly not be able to make routine throws to first base! The fundamentals are just bad. We've got players playing out of position. Our players don't seem to gel. We have players with dbl digit errors and plunging avgs. playing every game. Where's the depth? Are we not developing our depth?
I know JL is not exactly the most liked coach amongst SC high school coaches and that has hurt a little but not enough to fire him. We have good players or at least at this level they should be. We also can't seem to hold onto good asst. coaches anymore. It seems we now have a stream of former players I.e. Johnson, Chalk, Lecroy. Are these guys legit coaches? Who's next Taylor Harbin or Khalil Green? I know the scholarship limitations really hurt us as well as losing HS commits to the draft.
I just can't stop falling back on the development or lack there of? I love Clemson and I'll continue to support the players and the coaches regardless of who they are.
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Recruit [97]
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Do you people actually go to Clemson baseball games?
Jun 1, 2014, 12:50 AM
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Have any of you people on here watched our baseball team the last few years? I have been a season ticket holder since Khalil Greene played here. We do none of the fundamental things in baseball anymore! We have no approach when it comes to hitting. We can't seem to get a bunt down when we need it. We have tons of stolen bases, but always seem to get picked off when we least need it. We can never seem to steal a base or even try to when we need to get a runner in scoring position with the game on the line. We made 89 errors in 61 games this year. Shall I go on?
I have always been a fan of Jack and I know that no one wants to win more than he does, but we need some new blood. Whether that be some better assistant coaches or a change in the head man himself. Jack has taken the Clemson Baseball program as far as he can take it. I am tired of losing to UVA, UNC, and can't stand to lose to that bunch of clowns from Columbia!
Are we satisfied with the way things are or do we expect more from our baseball team? I know I expect more than the status quo!
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CU Guru [1116]
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Re: Read everyday, rarely post (long)
Jun 1, 2014, 12:33 AM
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We want improvement not the very noticible five year
journey into mediocrity.
The baseball program needs a change only new blood can give it.
As for Frank Howard, we tried to get him run of in the Sixties for his dull style of play.
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Head Coach [757]
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Making the NCAA tourney 20 out of 21 yrs is mediocre?
Jun 1, 2014, 12:44 AM
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What world do you live in?
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CU Guru [1116]
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Re: Making the NCAA tourney 20 out of 21 yrs is mediocre?
Jun 1, 2014, 1:02 AM
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Look at our last five years and take off your rose colored glasses.
You must enjoy being humbled by the Coots and W. Carolina and every top 20 team we play.
I'm glad I don't live in your world either.
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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CU Medallion [61448]
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110%er [5082]
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Thank you for your research - can I add...
Jun 1, 2014, 12:55 AM
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only two NCAA teams D1 have more post season appearances in HISTORY - That would be Florida State and Miami. CU has 39. Next is Cal St. Fullerton. Our friendly chickens have 30 -
So 20 NCAA appearances for our Coach - out of 39 in our history -
This board has no idea what it takes to have that consistency in baseball...none.
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CU Guru [1116]
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Re: Thank you for your research - can I add...
Jun 1, 2014, 1:08 AM
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You can say all the great things Tiger baseball's done in the past.
Wonderful ! Get over it !
Time to consider the future of the program.
Lead, Follow, or get out of the way.
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Head Coach [759]
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So your metric is making the NCAA tournament?
Jun 1, 2014, 2:52 AM
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If that is your metric, then Coach Leggett is your coach. No one can refute that.
Some fans have different metrics. They are allowed to have different metrics, and you are allowed to have your metric.
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Legend [18780]
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I prefer the metric system.***
Jun 1, 2014, 4:23 AM
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CU Guru [1250]
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Speaking of Accepting Mediocracy
Jun 1, 2014, 6:19 AM
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Your post was all that and more in regards to the baseball program.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: I would settle for a mediocre baseball team right now.
Jun 1, 2014, 10:15 AM
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I don't believe Jack can get us back to that level.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: Speaking of Accepting Mediocracy
Jun 1, 2014, 10:46 AM
[ in reply to Speaking of Accepting Mediocracy ] |
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don`t know.. we have not been that good for years..I have hopes but????????????????????????????I just don`t see us funding the baseball program properly
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: Read everyday, rarely post (long)
Jun 1, 2014, 8:18 AM
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BUT, BUT,we are going DOWNHILL every year!! IMHO Jack simply can not (or will not)bring back all the things that have made our program great over the years. past time for him to go!
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CU Medallion [51524]
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Factor in winning the games that matter just as much as
Jun 1, 2014, 11:38 AM
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the tourny...beating USuC.
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