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All-In [40344]
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Tax the rich
Sep 29, 2021, 9:23 AM
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Explain like I’m 5
Will raising tax rates on high income earners and corporations actually generate more revenue?
Both seem really good at dodging taxes in legal ways.
If the rates are raised on paper will that actually translate to more money?
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All-In [46816]
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Nope. Must be coupled with closing loopholes in
Sep 29, 2021, 9:25 AM
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the tax book as it is.
IRS has the capabilities to go ahead and take out the appropriate amount of taxes for everybody in the country.
The only reason they don't is because H&R block lobbied Congress hard to keep them from doing that because then you wouldn't need a tax service if the IRS just went ahead and took out the right amount of taxes each paycheck.
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All-In [26968]
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How would the IRS know how much you gave to charity,
Sep 29, 2021, 9:27 AM
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or how much you spend on medical bills, or whether you got had or adopted a kid, etc.? All of these things and many more affect the amount of taxes owed, that are reconciled on the annual tax return.
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Oculus Spirit [79428]
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LOL, what could go wrong with that?
Sep 29, 2021, 9:28 AM
[ in reply to Nope. Must be coupled with closing loopholes in ] |
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They take $10k more out than they're supposed to, you fight with them for 1.5 years over it, they eventually give $6k back and you're so tired of dealing with it you move on. Like we need to give them more ways to steal money from us.
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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So the problem is the loopholes
Sep 29, 2021, 9:35 AM
[ in reply to Nope. Must be coupled with closing loopholes in ] |
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The Uber-rich can defer income indefinitely. And the corporate taxes are just passed on to the consumer if they are able to stay afloat. Some businesses have a longer lag time and if they are suddenly burdened with unexpected taxes- they may not make it.
Point is- the whole idea is short sighted and furthermore will only serve to make the looming depression even worse.
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Lot o points [155822]
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Hall of Famer [21929]
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why do people
Sep 29, 2021, 11:57 AM
[ in reply to Nope. Must be coupled with closing loopholes in ] |
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like yourself, who pay hardly any taxes, care how much taxes other folks pay?
What's your economic return on me - or anyone - paying 70k in taxes next year versus paying 55k in taxes last year, assuming revenues are constant?
Seems the current mindset of the blue ants is to penalize via taxes, which in turn enriches the dipshits sitting in Washington. There's no re-distribution...thinking such is pretty ####### moronic.
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All-In [26968]
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I don't like the mindset of "they need to pay a fair share"
Sep 29, 2021, 12:03 PM
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People should pay precisely how much tax they are legally obligated to pay.
If taxes were raised for some people, it shouldn't be for "fairness," and it definitely shouldn't be punitive. It should be to raise revenue, because the country needs to raise revenue. That's the only good reason.
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Orange Blooded [4701]
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Orange Blooded [4701]
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110%er [5673]
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Re: Tax the rich
Sep 29, 2021, 9:41 AM
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If everything remains exactly the same and the percent they pay goes up, then how can it not lead to additional revenue?
It may not be as much as you would expect, but surely additional funds will be collected.
Another way to think of it...surely the gov't will not bring in less funds if rates are increased.
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All-In [47750]
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The irony of tax the rich and they need to pay their fair
Sep 29, 2021, 9:45 AM
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share:
The bozo's in Washington wrote the tax code, then blame the rich for using it legally to their best advantage.
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All-In [26500]
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If you have a $600 transaction on your bank statement
Sep 29, 2021, 9:55 AM
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You are rich and the IRS will direct withdraw from your account
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Heisman Winner [111527]
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The top 1% is sitting on roughly 17 trillion dollars***
Sep 29, 2021, 9:56 AM
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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Let’s just kill those guys and take their money!!***
Sep 29, 2021, 9:58 AM
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Heisman Winner [111527]
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who said anything about killing anyone
Sep 29, 2021, 10:02 AM
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I thought the idea was to tax them. It seems like they can afford it, and I am more referring to the top 1% of 1%, they have the bulk of that. I live amongst these people, they are not the best and brightest, their children are lazy, and their grandchildren so ill-equipped to live in this world that they are incapable of working a fast-food job. We would be doing them a favor.
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Orange Blooded [4016]
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Re: who said anything about killing anyone
Sep 29, 2021, 10:28 AM
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That's encouraging to hear. Maybe these kids will waste their inheritance and put some of this money back in circulation.
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Heisman Winner [111527]
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In my limited experience
Sep 29, 2021, 10:42 AM
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they are spending it on real estate and contributing to the housing shortage.
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Lot o points [155822]
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That doesn’t sound dumb.***
Sep 29, 2021, 11:39 AM
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Heisman Winner [111527]
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Re: That doesn’t sound dumb.***
Sep 29, 2021, 12:15 PM
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it does not take a High IQ to invest in real estate, especially when your disposable;e income is in Monte Brewster Territory. And I can understand the fear they must feel, take away all of their money ey and they lack the skills to survive in the real world.
And I guess if I were in their boat, I would do the same, but on the commercial end.
Message was edited by: Tigerbalm1®
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Lot o points [155822]
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Would you like to have that kind of money?
Sep 29, 2021, 12:18 PM
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Do you know 5 health-conscious people who know 5 health-conscious people? Then talk to me about Young Living® Essential Oils. Nature's way to financial freedom.
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Heisman Winner [111527]
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Re: Would you like to have that kind of money?
Sep 29, 2021, 4:15 PM
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Does this include free kicking lessons?
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110%er [9664]
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Hall of Famer [21929]
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All-In [31887]
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110%er [9664]
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All-TigerNet [12591]
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Re: Tax the rich
Sep 29, 2021, 10:01 AM
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It doesn't matter how much tax revenue is raised. Regardless of the amount, more will be spent. To not recognize that raising corporate taxes will disproportionately affect middle and lower income folks is silly. Businesses don't eat this tax.
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Heisman Winner [111527]
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Re: Tax the rich
Sep 29, 2021, 10:44 AM
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I am fine with lower corporate rates, but if you make more than 10 million a year in personal income and capital gains, I am not going to feel sorry for you if the fed takes half. Either you invest it in something useful, or you force the government's hand to do it for you.
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Hall of Famer [24031]
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Re: Tax the rich
Sep 29, 2021, 11:00 AM
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The government wastes a sh it ton of money. Why should they be trusted to invest in "something useful?"
Message was edited by: p6fuller®
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Orange Blooded [4016]
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Re: Tax the rich
Sep 30, 2021, 2:45 PM
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I'm sure they do. And this is a serious question, but where would you make the 3 trillion in spending cuts that is needed to balance the budget?
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Hall of Famer [21929]
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15 minute noodling around
Sep 30, 2021, 3:33 PM
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excel shows the following (rounded to the nearest B):
- Defense: $741B
- Medicaid: $519B
- Medicare: $831B
- Interest: $331B
- Nondefense: $874B
- Offsetting Receipts: ($301B)
- Other Spending: $2.7T
- Social Security: $1.1T
- Total Budget: $6.856T
Current Revenue projections are $3.5T
Other Spending / Nondefense category heavy hitters ($3.599T total):
- Dept of Agriculture: $255B
- Dept of Education: $435B (not touching, although should be state level?)
- DHHS: $400B
> $81B in departmental management?
- Dept of Labor: $397B
- Treasury: $780B (mostly IRS - $787B)
- Office of Personnel Mgmt: $111B
- Small Business Administration: $208B
My zero political experience opinion of what to cut:
- IRS: In this day and age, why is the IRS funded the same as defense? And yet all y'all ##### about defense spending and loopholes, lol. Just realizing this hahaha...kinda funny. Anyways - automate.
- Est. Cut: 350B
- DHHS: 81B in departmental managements seems steep.
- Est. Cut: 100B
- Agriculture > Food and Nutrition Service: $174B...given we're the fattest country in the world, this seems like a waste of money. Bring the dept budget down to 100B
- Est. Cut: 125B
- Small Biz Admin. - no idea what these guys do, but 206B? Seems counter intuitive
- Est. Cut: 50B
- Railroad Retirement Board: 8B? W T F?
- Int'l Assistance Programs: 20B - see ya
- Another couple billion in miscellaneous scholarships, arts endowments, other ######## that taxpayers don't need to foot the bill for.
Total cuts: ~630B
Cut 250B from Military, Cut 250B from Medicare and Medicaid and we're at ~1.3T. Cut social security there's another trillion. Can't touch interest obviously.
I'm sure some swamp rat up in Washington would have a better idea what these orgs do and can speak better to how the justify their budgets. I have no idea what they do haha
sawce: https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2021-07/51142-2021-07-spendingprojections.xlsx
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Orange Blooded [4016]
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Re: 15 minute noodling around
Sep 30, 2021, 3:42 PM
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And that's the issue. If we only balance the budget by cutting spending, then you have to go into SS, Medicare, etc. Politicians who actually advocate for cuts in those areas have a poor chance of getting re-elected. Voters don't like it when you cut their benefits/distributions, especially when they feel they've paid into the system their whole life and they want what they think is "theirs".
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Hall of Famer [21929]
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So at a high level there's 3 options
Sep 30, 2021, 4:02 PM
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1 - double revenue to equal current budget (assume spending increases stop)
2 - increase revenue by 50%, cut budget by $2T
3 - cut budget by ~$3.6T
Ok there's a 4th option: Keep doing what we're doing and let the Fed just keep printing until the whole ####### thing collapses.
The knuckledragging racist ### hole in me is fine with Option 3. But that's mean to people reliant on the government. Just like the partisan hack in you is fine with Option 1, despite it seeming like a pretty far fetched idea to double the governments revenue.
So if we meet in the middle, which will be dicey in and of itself given it's 2021, we'd first need to align on where to cut. That'll probably never be agreed to, so the next step is a moot point.
I have a hard time believe this "Tax the Rich" ######## will generate anywhere close to an additional $1.5T in annual revenue, but I haven't spent much time looking at any numbers.
It also sounds like we can agree to stop spending for a second and instead try to figure out how to reach a stable steady-state.
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Orange Blooded [4016]
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Re: So at a high level there's 3 options
Sep 30, 2021, 5:42 PM
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At some point, revenue and spending need to converge. And cutting entilements is toxic politically. I'm not saying I wouldn't support that, it's just reality. And I don't see either side being the least bit serious about adhering to balanced budgets.
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Hall of Famer [24031]
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Re: So at a high level there's 3 options
Sep 30, 2021, 10:00 PM
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Part of the problem is that being a good politician entails bilking the federal government for money that will go to the politician's state. No doubt there is bloat in all of those categories that Dawghater mentioned. I'm definitely not an anti vaxer or any sort of Covid hoaxer, but did we need to spend more on covid than World War II? Remember that brief period when Bill Clinton was able to use line item veto, before the SC ruled it unconstitutional. We ran surpluses for a few years then; Clinton had the power to pick and choose in a spending bill and cut the garbage out. Maybe a constitutional amendment that allows line item veto on spending, would be helpful.
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Orange Blooded [4016]
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Re: So at a high level there's 3 options
Sep 30, 2021, 10:19 PM
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Our mandatory federal spending is currently equal to our federal revenue. So to balance the budget without increasing revenue, you have to make huge cuts in SS, Medicare, etc. Good luck with that.
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All-TigerNet [12591]
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Re: Tax the rich
Sep 29, 2021, 12:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: Tax the rich ] |
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I wish I had the problem of knocking down an 8 figure income. I strongly suspect those individuals are indeed investing it in something useful rather than putting it under a rock or worse trusting politicians to spend it wisely.
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Orange Blooded [4016]
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Re: Tax the rich
Sep 29, 2021, 1:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: Tax the rich ] |
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I always like to ask for people to look at our current deficit and spending breakdown, and to come up with cuts only to balance everything out. It's been a while, but what are our current options for 3 trillion in spending cuts?
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Orange Blooded [2692]
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Janet Yellen's wants to eat the rich
Sep 29, 2021, 10:41 AM
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and the way she intends to do it is to tax unrealized capital gains, especially amongst the top 1%.
Wouldn't be surprised if she is the one who is eaten.
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All-TigerNet [13103]
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Re: Tax the rich
Sep 29, 2021, 10:45 AM
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Taxing corporations = higher prices and lower wages (stagnation)
We've tried this before. It just gives liberal morons a chant and cool dresses.
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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Re: Tax the rich
Sep 29, 2021, 10:56 AM
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What does stagnation drive for libs?
More spending, handouts, and gov dependency.
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All-In [47750]
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All-In [34105]
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Re: What's the "fair share" of the 44% of Americans that pay
Oct 1, 2021, 7:37 AM
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Interesting article. The majority of people paying no income tax are employed, but they don't make enough money to owe taxes. So they're actually contributing to GDP and a bunch are paying payroll taxes through their employer, resulting in a positive total tax.
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Hall of Famer [21929]
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blue team identity politics rallying cry
Sep 29, 2021, 11:54 AM
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similar to red teams open borders
and blue teams systemic racism
and red teams Critical race crap
all ########.
To answer your question, raising taxes on any economical demographic will raise revenue. Why does the government need more revenue? Just to spend more? On what?
The broader issue is no one has a clear defined problem statement. So solutions are emotionally filled dribble to attempt to get votes and pit the two teams against each other. Been working now for about 50 years to perfection and put into hyperdrive here in the past 6 - 9.
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Lot o points [155822]
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Depends on the demographic and the tax burden.
Sep 29, 2021, 1:58 PM
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At some point the law of diminishing returns will kick in and and you can get a negative revenue impact due to decreased productivity and/or unemployment.
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Lot o points [155822]
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On a related note, dawg, didju know that Art Laffer
Sep 29, 2021, 4:09 PM
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Lives in Nashville and still goes to work downtown every day? I’m on a quest to have lunch with this guy. Would love to pick his brain for an hour. LMK if you’d like in on this quest.
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Lot o points [155822]
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Re: On a related note, dawg, didju know that Art Laffer
Sep 29, 2021, 5:31 PM
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dawghater23
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Hall of Famer [21929]
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Oculus Spirit [83073]
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It's always a crapshoot setting it at
Oct 1, 2021, 10:35 AM
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the right level.
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