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CU Medallion [59974]
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Imagine being a person
Dec 1, 2021, 11:17 AM
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that goes before the Supreme Court to argue that ending a pregnancy is ok in all circumstances. This has zero to do with rape, incest, etc.. This is all about the free will to get knocked up and then end a life.
How evil can a person be? This chick is evil.
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Rock Defender [53]
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I'm assuming you're anti-death penalty as well?***
Dec 1, 2021, 12:14 PM
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All-In [46768]
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Na, republicans are only pro-life until birth***
Dec 1, 2021, 12:16 PM
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Na, republicans are only pro-life until birth***
Dec 1, 2021, 12:23 PM
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An ectopic pregnancy is fatal to the fetus. It can not survive. It is a terminal state. Big difference.
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All-In [46768]
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I think you're on the wrong thread***
Dec 1, 2021, 12:24 PM
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: I think you're on the wrong thread***
Dec 1, 2021, 12:29 PM
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You are correct. That answer was to your question on another thread but you already know that.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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just a guess here, but someone who rapes and kills
Dec 1, 2021, 12:26 PM
[ in reply to Na, republicans are only pro-life until birth*** ] |
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a ton of kids and women and then has their way with their dead bodies, might lose rights to their life
as opposed to a child in a womb that has done nothing to anybody.
and i'm a pro-life or pro-abortion dude so. But to compare those 2 is the height of idiocy.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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I'm not. not, I am***
Dec 1, 2021, 12:27 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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CU Medallion [73569]
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I'm sure there has been
Dec 1, 2021, 12:30 PM
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Are you really comparing these 2?
If so, you are really a complete loon.
And i could care less about pro-life stuff, well, except late term abortion. That is just pure murder in my book.
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Rock Defender [53]
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How is the loss of innocent life under both programs
Dec 1, 2021, 12:32 PM
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different?
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: How is the loss of innocent life under both programs
Dec 1, 2021, 12:39 PM
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One is accidental killing of the innocent. The other is premeditated killing of the innocent.
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Rock Defender [53]
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How is it accidental when we know the system contains this
Dec 1, 2021, 12:45 PM
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flaw and we still maintain it? That is intentional.
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All-TigerNet [13359]
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Re: How is it accidental when we know the system contains this
Dec 1, 2021, 12:53 PM
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The “system” still “allows” us to drive and innocent people die everyday on the roads. Why does the system allow this?
Your arguing details of a certain part of our judicial system vs the intentional murder of unborn babies. C’mon man. The only similarity is someone dies. That’s it. Zero innocent babies have been given the death penalty.
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Hall of Famer [23946]
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Re: How is it accidental when we know the system contains this
Dec 1, 2021, 12:56 PM
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Millions of innocent babies have been given the death penalty
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CU Medallion [58367]
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Not by due process after being accused of a crime.
Dec 1, 2021, 6:36 PM
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That was the point ya know.
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-TigerNet [13359]
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Re: So the death penalty is a necessary evil that
Dec 1, 2021, 1:01 PM
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I think you need to go to the death penalty thread and argue over there as this argument for killing the unborn is no bueno.
Because an innocent person has been killed does not mean you can now kill all the innocent people you want.
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Rock Defender [53]
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I'm just trying to get your position. Because it seems like
Dec 1, 2021, 1:04 PM
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you believe it is not so much an issue with the loss of innocent life, as much as it is that the innocent life lost go towards a broader social good. It's an important distinction since "innocent life" is such a crucial touchpoint in the abortion debate.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: I'm just trying to get your position. Because it seems like
Dec 1, 2021, 1:09 PM
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So, you are anti capital punishment we gather. Obviously based on your position you are antiabortion correct? You are asking us to “be consistent”. Are you consistent?
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All-TigerNet [13359]
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Re: I'm just trying to get your position. Because it seems like
Dec 1, 2021, 1:12 PM
[ in reply to I'm just trying to get your position. Because it seems like ] |
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They are not relatable. One is a mistake one is purposeful. The only similarity is death.
You are trying to go down a road where the only way to eliminate the mistake of sentencing innocent people to the death penalty is to abolish the death penalty.... again go to the death penalty thread.
Do you think you should be charged with double homicide for killing a pregnant woman?
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Rock Defender [53]
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But if the issue is killing an innocent person --
Dec 1, 2021, 1:22 PM
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and that is what makes it an immoral abomination -- how is it different?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Feel free to dispel my misplaced notions by explaining
Dec 1, 2021, 1:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: So the death penalty is a necessary evil that ] |
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your reasoning behind why the innocent life lost to the death penalty is different than the innocent life lost to abortion.
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CU Medallion [58367]
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Allow me to blow your mind.
Dec 1, 2021, 7:20 PM
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I know I'm late to the party, but it's been a busy day.
I oppose abortion in most cases, as you might expect, because at some point I believe the fetus is a human being. It's tough to say exactly when, so it's a tough issue for me. Also in cases of rape and incest. This may be the most difficult issue of all for me; I really struggle with it. But, at the end of the day, I have to face the fact (I believe), that the fetus becomes a human being at some point, and embodies all of the rights and deserves all of the protections of a person outside the womb.
Now for the part that blows a lot of peoples' minds: I oppose the death penalty. If somebody could assure me of two things, I wouldn't have a problem with it: #1.It is an effective deterrent against the crimes it punishes, and #2.We never execute an innocent person. A lot of studies over time have indicated that it is not an effective deterrent at all. I haven't kept up with current research, but I would be surprised if it has changed. And if we had one of those truth detectors like they used in court on the Starship Enterprise on the original Star Trek tv series, that infallibly indicates when a defendent is lying, then we'd almost be there. But we don't and we're not. We still execute innocent people, and yes, I find that unacceptable.
I understand both your and elwyn's point. Both are equally innocent lives, who have that life wrongfully taken away. The difference is, to the degree it matters (if it does), is that one has a voice, gets due process through a system which includes legal represntation and automatic appeal; it takes a great deal of time and a lot of debate. In the other case, while it's not an easy decision in most cases, this one has no voice, no representation, and the decision can be made for them in an instant.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Allow me to blow your mind.
Dec 1, 2021, 8:34 PM
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I'm serious man. I could have written exactly this for myself. To me, the DP is a clear cut issue (kills the innocent with no social benefit), but i struggle with the abortion issue more than any other and genuinely am conflicted for much if the same reasons; namely the moral sin of killing an unbornchild against the social externalities that also carry with them their own moral baggage.
I owe some of these guys a deeper explanation for being good sports in this thread, but you nailed the broadstrokes.
You came to blow minds and sir you did.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Allow me to blow your mind.
Dec 1, 2021, 9:24 PM
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The strongest argument for being pro-choice is the same it's always been; it's just astounding how short our memories are.
You can't force a woman to be an incubator for a child she doesn't want against her will. It doesn't work. She's either going to do it safely, or she's going to do it in a back alley, but either way it's going to get done if she decides for whatever reason she does not want the child. This is what directly led to the Roe v. Wade decision.
I don't like abortion. I am assuredly not "pro-abortion". I really wish the emphasis was not on banning abortions - which again, doesn't work - but on convincing women there were better options, and on really encouraging adoptions and post-birth support for women in situations; there are just so many women who want children but can't have them. But it is ultimately the woman's choice unless you're planning on following her around 24/7, like it or not.
Also, women feel...strongly about the issue. 62% of women are pro-choice, and the majority of women are strongly pro-choice. If the GOP wants to ensure it never wins another election, this is a great way to do it. Overall the numbers are 59% pro-choice, 39% pro-life, so this is not a winning issue for the GOP regardless of gender.
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CU Medallion [58367]
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It's a huge, difficult problem. Personally, I'm not so
Dec 1, 2021, 11:13 PM
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concerned about winning elections as I am about doing the right thing, regardless of political repercussions. I agree with you, however, and don't blame women who don't want to be incubators for children they don't want. Here's some great news on that front: Barring rape or accident, WOMEN DON"T HAVE TO BECOME INCUBATORS IN THE FIRST PLACE! IT'S TOTALLY UP TO THEM - THEY HAVE THE POWER! I would much rather live in a society that deals with the consequences of women who refuse to accept the consequences of their own actions, including any illegal abortions that will occur, than one which condones the murder of unborn human beings as a solution to bad but free choices or irresponsible behavior.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Hall of Famer [24440]
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Rock Defender [53]
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That would be a very consistent position.***
Dec 1, 2021, 1:37 PM
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Hall of Famer [24440]
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Is yours? Do we have a deal?***
Dec 1, 2021, 2:17 PM
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CU Medallion [59974]
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CU Medallion [73569]
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dont tell ot what to do ;-)***
Dec 1, 2021, 1:42 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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ot. off topic...
Dec 1, 2021, 1:44 PM
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or on?
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110%er [5641]
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Oculus Spirit [80954]
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I promise I'll never get an abortion***
Dec 1, 2021, 2:23 PM
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110%er [9639]
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Kill a baby 1 minute after it's born and you're a monster.
Dec 1, 2021, 3:06 PM
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"Reach in" and kill it (fill in a time) before it's born. All is well.
That just seems odd to me.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Kill a baby 1 minute after it's born and you're a monster.
Dec 1, 2021, 3:07 PM
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It’s actually evil but I know what you mean.
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Hall of Famer [22259]
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I've thought about this before...what would the US population be
Dec 1, 2021, 3:52 PM
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today if there were no abortions? 50 million total abortions in USA since Roe/Wade in 1973 is tossed around. Assuming 25 years between generations, a female fetus not aborted in 1973 could have 2 kids by 1998, and those 2 kids could have 2 kids each by 2023. That's 4 additional people from that one in 1973. You see where I'm going with this. I'd have to take a little time and really crunch the numbers on this, but it would be a chit ton. The original 50M plus all their descendants...
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Rock Defender [53]
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Abortion in the context of population control is some pretty
Dec 1, 2021, 3:57 PM
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dark stuff dude, even for the moon.
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Hall of Famer [22259]
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Nah man, it's just a mathematical curiosity... that's how my
Dec 1, 2021, 4:03 PM
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mind works. Old math major like me can't help it. I do crap like this all the time and friends look at me weird, laugh, and say: dayum, what made you think about it that way? LOL
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Rock Defender [53]
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Ah okay. It is an interesting thought project.
Dec 1, 2021, 4:08 PM
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It's just that so many on the Left use that justification seriously. Even by pro-choice argument standards, it is ghoulish.
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Hall of Famer [22259]
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I guess, but not my intent. That is is a tad dark....***
Dec 1, 2021, 4:14 PM
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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CU Medallion [59974]
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Balm responds and then deletes his response
Dec 1, 2021, 4:48 PM
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CU Medallion [58367]
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I always thought the "My Body, My Choice" argument was dumb
Dec 1, 2021, 6:32 PM
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anyway.
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Oculus Spirit [82971]
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I'm pro-choice and pro-death penalty. I'm against most
Dec 1, 2021, 10:03 PM
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abortions, but don't think you or the govt. should make that decision. It's pretty pompous for any male to think he should make that decision for millions of females. It should be between the female and her doctor. The govt. and everyone else should butt the F out.
As for the death penalty, it does bother me of the inequity of how it's applied in our society. Let's face it, if you can afford good legal representation, it's not going to happen to you, or rarely. Still, in most states, there is money and organizations fighting on behalf of death row inmates, and when it does happen, I'm confident that these cases are viewed under a microscope to give death row inmates full due process of law.
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Hall of Famer [23946]
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Re: I'm pro-choice and pro-death penalty. I'm against most
Dec 1, 2021, 11:16 PM
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Why are you against most abortions?
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Oculus Spirit [82971]
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Because it kills a potential human.***
Dec 1, 2021, 11:36 PM
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Hall of Famer [23946]
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Re: Because it kills a potential human.***
Dec 1, 2021, 11:57 PM
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Why should a human have the right to kill a potential human?
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CU Medallion [58367]
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I'd say it's pretty pompous for any human being to think
Dec 1, 2021, 11:36 PM
[ in reply to I'm pro-choice and pro-death penalty. I'm against most ] |
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they have the right to take the life of another human being, which is what many abortions may be. To frame the argument as men trying to make a very personal decision for millions of females is a red herring. Men, and women who oppose abortion are simply trying to prevent women from murdering unborn human beings. That is not between a woman and her doctor.
This is a tough question because we can't possibly know exactly when life begins, and we'll never get consensus on it; but I think we can get to a point where most of us agree on a point during prgnancy where a fetus is a human being.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: I'd say it's pretty pompous for any human being to think
Dec 2, 2021, 6:27 AM
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Good points smiling. I agree with you except on one point. We actually do know when life begins. “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you”. Jeremiah 1:5.
So, for us life begins at conception and abortion is killing a human that God knew would be arriving.
I realize the pro choice crowd does not believe in a biblical world view. But it’s the reason we will never agree with them. It’s actually not possible to agree with them based on Christian teaching.
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CU Medallion [58367]
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I have belief, I have faith, but I don't know.
Dec 2, 2021, 10:46 AM
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You'll never convince me that you know. I understand the difference between faith and knowing, and I'm fine with that. As you implied, such an argument would never, and should never, be entertained in legal circles, which is where the life saving decisions would be effected here and now.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: I have belief, I have faith, but I don't know.
Dec 2, 2021, 11:22 AM
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If you’re saying I can’t convince you that life begins at conception then you are correct. I can’t convince you So, there’s no need to debate. We just have a different view and that’s ok.
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