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Replies: 30
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Sounds like a "Forward" party guy already to me
Jul 30, 2022, 8:19 AM
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I'm seeing shades of this everywhere...people are dissatisfied with the Dem party and have no real desire to be under the big tent with the Wokists, Commies, hippies, and trannies who wanna crush women in women's sports...but are nonetheless eyeing the slavering horde of genuine anti-democratic Fascist deplorables gathering under the MAGA banner and going: "what choice do we really have here unless we want those lunatics in charge?"
Lots of people are looking for another way. Once it's established there actually is, I've thought for awhile this two-party monstrosity we've got going (that really only benefits lobbyists and dark money because it makes politics far easier to control and far less responsive to We The People, since all they have to do is artificially polarize public opinion and then control the dominant party in the area) would collapse like the artificial house of cards it's always been.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/07/29/evan-mcmullin-trump-poi-00047807
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Sounds like a "Forward" party guy already to me
Jul 30, 2022, 8:27 AM
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I'm seeing shades of this everywhere...people are dissatisfied with the Dem party and have no real desire to be under the big tent with the Wokists, Commies, hippies, and trannies who wanna crush women in women's sports...but are nonetheless eyeing the slavering horde of genuine anti-democratic Fascist deplorables gathering under the MAGA banner and going: "what choice do we really have here unless we want those lunatics in charge?" Lots of people are looking for another way. Once it's established there actually is, I've thought for awhile this two-party monstrosity we've got going (that really only benefits lobbyists and dark money because it makes politics far easier to control and far less responsive to We The People, since all they have to do is artificially polarize public opinion and then control the dominant party in the area) would collapse like the artificial house of cards it's always been. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/07/29/evan-mcmullin-trump-poi-00047807
Finally we agree!
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110%er [5677]
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Re: Sounds like a "Forward" party guy already to me
Jul 30, 2022, 9:17 AM
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According to google and wikipedia:
Fascism is characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the good of the nation, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
The above does not describe Trump or MAGA. Dictatorial power, forcible suppression, blah blah blah is exactly the democratic party. Pack the court, eliminate filibuster, call for and harass/attack opposition in public, protest illegally at SCOTUS homes, masks, vaccine mandates and firing workers (for the good of the nation), and the list goes on and on.
I deleted 8 words after is and before characterized. These are the words you pay attention to, but actually have nothing to do with what is actually happening.
Those words are "a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement." Your echo chamber tells you this is MAGA and Trump, but you are wrong. And don't cite one incident, J6, that somehow makes all of Trump and MAGA meet this definition. You and others have been saying Trump is fascist for years, but the objective evidence is he did NOTHING as POTUS related to fascism. Trump was making the government smaller and less powerful - exactly opposite of fascism.
The fact that you keep repeating this tells us all you live in the liberprog echo chamber.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: Sounds like a "Forward" party guy already to me
Jul 30, 2022, 9:35 AM
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You really see what you want to see. I'd knock down each one of those points but you simply would not listen.
Trumpism is Fascism. Period. History will absolutely agree with that assertion. And I'm not in an echo chamber, unlike you. I read everything - right wing, left-wing, centrist and I have zero social media. You utterly disregard anything that doesn't confirm your worldview, literally remove it from your memory bank the second you're presented with it. I've called you on that numerous occasions.
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Walk-On [138]
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Re: Sounds like a "Forward" party guy already to me
Jul 30, 2022, 11:26 AM
[ in reply to Re: Sounds like a "Forward" party guy already to me ] |
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thanks for explaining again and again to these liberal terrorist. What we have now is a terriorist party Democrats trying to make us believe water runs up hill. I"m tired op paying for lazy good for nothing leaches. Get a job and work , Quit taking Democrat free money.
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110%er [7207]
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Shirley you remember Lock her up! Lock her up!
Jul 30, 2022, 11:31 AM
[ in reply to Re: Sounds like a "Forward" party guy already to me ] |
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It's really cute how you excluded part of the definition because you know it hurts your argument then told everyone not to bring up the time they tried to overthrow the government.
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All-In [38514]
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Evan McMullin is great.***
Jul 30, 2022, 9:34 AM
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All-In [27134]
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A lot of respect for Yang and dig him quite a bit
Jul 30, 2022, 9:40 AM
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But fusion/centrist parties have tried and failed many times and there is nothing particularly interesting about Yang that says it'll go any different. This is on top of the system challenges third parties face -- ballot access, shut out of debates, and the "wasted vote" complex.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: A lot of respect for Yang and dig him quite a bit
Jul 30, 2022, 10:00 AM
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In the past, though, the two existing parties were not nearly as polarized and acrimonious as they are today, or doing such an astoundingly bad job at reaching the middle.
I mean, the far left and the far right are both completely insane right now. Some of the stuff I see coming out of Berkeley and Harvard academics just literally turns my stomach. "Anti-white", "anti-male", "anti-Christian", "anti-straight-people"...it doesn't begin to describe it. Far leftism seems to start with the idea that white religious males are the root of all evil and any and all means are justified to...I dunno, destroy us? Put us in our place? Unclear. But a lot of them seem to subscribe to the notion that hey, let's keep a few of us atavistic apes around for sperm, and kill off the rest. But not before taking all our money as reparations for generations of prior sins, and nationalizing everything we own for the greater good.
I, uhm, really don't like that plan.
Contrariwise, you see the absolute unhinged crazy coming off the right at the moment, and they somehow don't even realize they're completely undemocratic Fascists and they think we're supposed to just wait for their next J6 moment until they can get it right. Uh, no. You guys are coming for the country, it's past being obvious, and it's time to grind this malignant cancer under like the Fascist revolution it is. Because when democracy itself looks like Communism to somebody, that somebody is well past the line of being a Fascist.
So I'd rather see what's behind Door #3, and that's where Forward has a real chance, IMHO, especially since there's already this ready-made mass of politicians and business interests that are no longer welcome in the Republican party but are not eager to see Socialist America reign either.
I actually think the polarized extremism might actually pave the road to cracking the parties, since they really don't represent the majority any longer. Gridlock only tends to last so long before the levy bursts, and that seems to be where the fail point is. And it really does not appear either extreme is showing much mechanism for self-correction at the moment.
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All-In [27134]
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You're thinking like a smart, passionate citizen.
Jul 30, 2022, 10:20 AM
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You're not thinking like a voter.
If -- and that's a big if -- Fwd: can get on the ballot in enough states to make a difference, it'll be next to impossible to get into the debates. The GOP pulling out of the CPD is an interesting twist, but I suspect whatever new debate regime is organized will maintain the status quo of two parties only. Even if you're on 50 ballots, not getting into the debates is a death sentence.
Then, beyond all of this, you still run into the wasted vote myth, which is actually reinforced by hyperpartisanship than undermined. If most voters believe the "other side" winning will be the end of the world, they are more likely to vote for their side with the best chance, even if the third party has the better candidate.
I hope I'm wrong. I wish I was. But reality is Yang will pull something like, maybe 1.2%. Breaking 1% is a huge win for a new party (well, even established parties); but it's not game-changing numbers.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: You're thinking like a smart, passionate citizen.
Jul 30, 2022, 10:38 AM
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Here's where this works, and where this is a strategic decision by politicians looking for a way out of this mess: if the GOP makes the mistakes of not getting on the debate stage - and I think they well may, especially if it's Trump running - we'll see a debate between the Dems and the Forwards, and they'll treat us to a nice, polite, civil, issues-based debate again...but they'll both agree the MAGA's are a horde of dangerous barbarians bent on burning democracy to the ground. And then they'll shake hands afterwards. And the vast majority of Americans will watch and go: "Oh, hey, that's what's supposed to happen here. $%^& we miss that."
And here's where Kinzinger or Cheney or Paul Ryan or whoever gets on that debate stage is going to just kill it: they'll force their opposing number to declare right there that if it looks like Kinzinger is running ahead of the Dem, that Dem will drop out and endorse Kinzinger rather than allow the MAGA Horde to take over. And they'll say: hey, if you're not willing to do that for the good of the country, all your talk about Trumpism being the end of democracy is so much bullsh!t. And the Dem will have to back down...and boom, right there, the two-party monopoly is broken, and for all time.
That opens the door to universal ranked-choice voting, rather than just a gentleman's agreement like we're likely to see in 2024. And that's the end of the far left and the far right.
That's maybe the silver lining about MAGA being so rapidly hostile to everyone else and patently undemocratic. For democracy to survive, MAGA's opponents have to actually practice it.
Have you really taken a look at the number of prominent, politically homeless politicians or uneasy centrist members of the Problem Solver coalition who would jump instantly at a viable third party? There's a bunch of them.
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All-In [27134]
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If GOP won't debate, there won't be any debate at all.
Jul 30, 2022, 10:43 AM
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Or at least not one with a major party involved.
Maybe networks will use a third party debate to force Rs/Ds to the stage in a debate of their own, but after Bush made the mistake of getting Perot into the debate because Republicans thought he would hurt Democrats, neither party is going to play nice with a 3P who will certainly drain votes from them.
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All-In [27134]
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To the last point.
Jul 30, 2022, 10:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: You're thinking like a smart, passionate citizen. ] |
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Not a single person has a chance as a third party so long as ballot access is the hurdle it is, and there is no pathway to the national debate. The only possible exception is a massively wealthy person who isn't afraid to self-fund (like David Koch).
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: To the last point.
Jul 30, 2022, 10:53 AM
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There's rumbles Elon Musk is going to jump into the Forward party.
He and Yang are boys.
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All-In [27134]
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What difference would that make?
Jul 30, 2022, 10:56 AM
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Unless he runs, which he can't, he's limited by law to the money he can pump into the party. I suppose he could form a PAC and use outside money to promote the candidates, but I don't see that happening.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: What difference would that make?
Jul 30, 2022, 11:01 AM
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In the past awareness access far more than ballot access has been the problem for third parties. They just had no way to get their message out. They had no real way to market themselves since debate access was everything and without it there was no path.
There's so many platforms now, and so many ways of reaching voters, that the Establishment - which includes Fox as well as the MSM - can't really control viral movements anymore. That's how Trump and MAGA outflanked Rupert Murdoch, who definitely preferred a more traditional conservative and tried for the longest time to dismiss Trump.
I think we may well be about to see it happen again the other way. Once the MSM finally gets hip to the fact that hey, this third-party thing is actually a real thing, the two-party system breaks.
It just takes momentum and this feels like it has a lot of public will behind it.
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All-In [27134]
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That's been the case for quite a few cycles now,
Jul 30, 2022, 2:05 PM
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And the LP, with 50-state ballot access and a very popular former governor, could not move the needle in any sort of significant way.
The presidential debates is still the make or break for a third party, and unless the 3P candidate is so wildly popular that he/she can't be excluded without major scandal, they won't get through the debate wall. Yang is very popular on social, but he's all but invisible to actual voters.
It's just not going to happen for third parties without some major reforms pushed by the RNC and DNC, which isn't ever going to happen.
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Lot o points [155907]
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Lot o points [155907]
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I find it hard to believe
Jul 30, 2022, 10:17 AM
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that this is a single sentence.
"Once it's established there actually is, I've thought for awhile this two-party monstrosity we've got going (that really only benefits lobbyists and dark money because it makes politics far easier to control and far less responsive to We The People, since all they have to do is artificially polarize public opinion and then control the dominant party in the area) would collapse like the artificial house of cards it's always been."
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: I find it hard to believe
Jul 30, 2022, 10:19 AM
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Dude. The warning is right there on the tin on every post I make.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Sounds like a "Forward" party guy already to me
Jul 30, 2022, 10:42 AM
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Lol. Quozell is calling the party that is not censoring opposition, controlling the media, and putting the "good" of the nation above Individual interests fascists.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: Sounds like a "Forward" party guy already to me
Jul 30, 2022, 10:56 AM
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Yes, you are Fascist.
And a thoroughly unpleasant human being who leads with dumb and closes with hostility.
Next.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Sounds like a "Forward" party guy already to me
Jul 30, 2022, 11:36 AM
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????
You never cease to amaze. What makes me a fascist?
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All-TigerNet [13110]
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Re: Sounds like a "Forward" party guy already to me
Jul 30, 2022, 11:36 AM
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man, I'd like to hit that trail behind him on my bike and not have to see another human farting out of their mouth, for about 3 days.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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All-TigerNet [13110]
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Re: Sounds like a "Forward" party guy already to me
Jul 30, 2022, 11:51 AM
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good for that guy, stopping those teenagers from littering.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: Sounds like a "Forward" party guy already to me
Jul 30, 2022, 11:58 AM
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LOL. There is something strangely likable about a bastage who's honest about it.
You'll make a really good Mean Old Man.
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Hall of Famer [24774]
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My family... that helmet wouldn't save his dumb axx...
Jul 30, 2022, 12:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: Sounds like a "Forward" party guy already to me ] |
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Whether it was about Floyd, T-Rump or a frickin' lemonade stand, if you assault my little girl, you'd get to think about it while you're resting in traction.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: My family... that helmet wouldn't save his dumb axx...
Jul 30, 2022, 12:12 PM
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Well, this joke escalated quickly...
I think we can all agree that was not actually Keowee, and that he was not actually advocating for the roughing up of starry-eyed little Lib girls posting George Floyd flyers.
Well, I think. 
Hopefully we can all agree this is in fact "over the line". Well, everyone except CharlestonTom, who would have shot her if no one was looking.
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Hall of Famer [24774]
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No escalation... Standard paradigm. Bully boo boo.***
Jul 30, 2022, 12:19 PM
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110%er [8984]
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if ed mcmuffin is the face of the new party
Jul 30, 2022, 12:46 PM
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yall are screwed
and have no chance
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