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Team Captain [495]
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So, who is worth more? A DC who develops players and
Oct 18, 2014, 7:15 PM
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a scheme. Or, an OC who is exciting in theory but has yet to develop players beyond their raw talent nor a scheme that is adjustable for the opponent at hand?
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MVP [502]
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Re: So, who is worth more? A DC who develops players and
Oct 18, 2014, 7:26 PM
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Venebles is working with three 5 start players in Anthony, Steward and Alexander. Hardly the cupboard bare. Did not really have it last year. Offense working with true freshman and sophomores. Not a fair comparison.
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Re: So, who is worth more? A DC who develops players and
Oct 18, 2014, 7:29 PM
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Note: BV developed those starters into his scheme, with some darn good assistants to help him.
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Team Captain [495]
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Amen!***
Oct 18, 2014, 7:36 PM
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Team Captain [495]
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But, looking not just at this year. The offense has
Oct 18, 2014, 7:35 PM
[ in reply to Re: So, who is worth more? A DC who develops players and ] |
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not improved with talent while the defense has improved, period. Boyd was good. I liked him. Better than what we had in a long time but it was raw talent. He never developed/improved further beyond his sophomore year. (I don't mean just luck plays.) I mean DEVELOPMENT stuff. Stout was/is serviceable but has not developed. Morris is the OC and QB coach. Will Watson develop beyond his raw talent that he has already displayed? Will the offense scheme be able to evolve based on the strength/weakness of the opponent? We've yet to see that with Morris as OC.
(And, just a side note. If Morris would leave, with our talent, we'd have OC's begging for the job!)
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110%er [6692]
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Re: But, looking not just at this year. The offense has
Oct 18, 2014, 7:41 PM
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You sound just like lead coot and even spell Stoudt's name the same way. Not to mention the fact that you have no clue what you're talking about.
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Legend [16186]
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Re: But, looking not just at this year. The offense has
Oct 18, 2014, 7:49 PM
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Warm spit. Clueless, unappreciative, divisive warm spit.
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Legend [16186]
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Re: So, who is worth more? A DC who develops players and
Oct 18, 2014, 7:29 PM
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I'll tell you what's not worth warm spit. A Tiger fan finding something to complain about on the day of a win.
Go Tigers!!
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Standout [316]
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Tell'em Harley
Oct 18, 2014, 7:37 PM
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My feelings exactly. Bunch of whiners that never played a down.
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Team Captain [495]
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Same team beat USC (the real one)
Oct 18, 2014, 7:56 PM
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at home when they were ranked in the Top 15 I believe.
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Team Captain [495]
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And where are they now and who
Oct 18, 2014, 7:57 PM
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have they beat?
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Hmm, let's see
Oct 18, 2014, 8:00 PM
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Stanford #13
Arizona #10
The lost on a miracle play to ASU. Otherwise BC would be their only loss.
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110%er [7951]
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Hmm, let's look at our current DC/OC NFL players
Oct 18, 2014, 7:29 PM
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Watkins
Hopkins
Ellington
Brown
Yea, terrible work on player development by Morris.
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Orange Blooded [2340]
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Wasn't Dwayne Allen still here in Morris' first year?
Oct 18, 2014, 7:34 PM
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Allen won the Mackey Award for the nation's best tight end, and outside of missing last year with an injury, he has been an important part of the Colts' offense.
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Team Captain [495]
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Dwayne Allen wasn't a Morris development. He was already on
Oct 18, 2014, 7:48 PM
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his way, and, again, a special talent once he put his head on straight. Has a TE reached anything near Allen's stats since Morris has been running the offense. Answer = NO! Legget, Copper, Seck? Have they improved, held steady, or gone backward?
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Well actually
Oct 18, 2014, 7:50 PM
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Yes, the next year Ford put up huge numbers.
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Team Captain [495]
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Current TE's? Most would
Oct 18, 2014, 7:53 PM
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expect improvement from Fr to So to Jr to Sr years. Where is the improvement = development?
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Orange Blooded [2340]
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And Ford was cut in training camp. Someone at Clemson must
Oct 18, 2014, 7:55 PM
[ in reply to Well actually ] |
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be something right. And Ellington did just fine at Clemson when he was the primary ball carrier. Over 1000 yards rushing in an offense where Boyd also got 500 isn't too shabby.
I'm not sure who the other one that's doing so much better in the NFL is. Jaron Brown never sees the field anymore now that Bruce Arians has John Brown in his offense.
Sammy was absolutely better in his junior year than in his freshman year. Martavis and Nuk haven't done anything extraordinary in the NFL that makes their college production look below their talent level.
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Team Captain [495]
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A lot of undrafted FA's cut at training camp.***
Oct 18, 2014, 7:58 PM
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Team Captain [495]
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2 of the 4 doing better in NFL than they ever
Oct 18, 2014, 7:43 PM
[ in reply to Hmm, let's look at our current DC/OC NFL players ] |
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showed at Clemson. And, Watkins was great Fr year. Did he improve next two years? Happy for them all. But what if they had real O coaching at Clemson? Untouchable!!!
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110%er [6692]
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Re: 2 of the 4 doing better in NFL than they ever
Oct 18, 2014, 8:02 PM
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So what do you expect? 100% development of every single players talent? If so you are an idiot. Was Sammy better his jr year? Yes because nuk was not there and he still showed out. And don't give me that Bryant was still here because nuk>Bryant all day every day.
How about McDowell last year? Solid year from a guy that wasn't expected from. Mike Williams is playing better. Brandon Thomas was a great left tackle last year, developed.
Also Allen wasn't nearly highly thought of until Morris got here.
You wouldn't last one week doing any of the jobs these coaches do.
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Team Captain [495]
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Never said I would but many others in
Oct 18, 2014, 8:07 PM
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the college football world making far less would excel with the talent we have on O. Ain't trying to be the coach. Just asking the questions - are players on the offense developing and who is responsible for that after a few years of having the opportunity. BV sure seems to be improving the talent and performance on the field.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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This is the dumbest argument ever
Oct 18, 2014, 8:13 PM
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Need I remind you the main reason Watson is at Clemson right now. Morris, that's right, the once loved, and now hated Chad Morris is the sole reason Watson decided to commit early and enroll early. He must be stupid since Morris sucks.
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Team Captain [495]
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Like I said, exciting O in
Oct 18, 2014, 8:19 PM
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theory but yet to prove out in player development and improving performance. Granted, Morris' talk is entertaining.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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What QB holds all the Clemson passing records?
Oct 18, 2014, 8:20 PM
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What WR has almost all the Clemson receiving records. I'll hang up and listen.
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Team Captain [495]
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Those who came after the
Oct 18, 2014, 8:24 PM
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Bowden error and when the offenses almost across the board had moved to a more wide open passing game -- 20 passes per game to 30+. So of course those stats will be better, or at least I would hope. What has happened to the once powerful running game? Who's responsible, or is that the evolution of college football. OK, you've answered your own question, sort of.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Maybe and just maybe
Oct 18, 2014, 8:28 PM
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We are working with a bunch of freshmen or players that simply don't have the talent like Howard and Davidson. Our top 2 running backs (in terms of experience and recruiting ranking) Brooks and Dye are both injured. Do you think that might hurt the running game. We are working with guys that would probably be third on the depth chart. If Dye and Brooks are healthy, Choice is redshirting right now.
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Team Captain [495]
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Choice is playing a heck of a lot to
Oct 18, 2014, 8:34 PM
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be redshirting. (So everything you've said is discounted.) Be that as it may, PLAYER DEVELOPMENT? DJ Howard was pretty highly regarded and considered a steal from all mighty Alabama. Has he improved in 4 years? I really wish he had.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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If Brooks and Dye aren't injured
Oct 18, 2014, 8:36 PM
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The preseason depth chart would probably look like this:
Dye
Brooks
Davidson
Gallman
Howard
Choice
So, there is that.
DJ Howard was a 3* player and mainly known for being a line backer.
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Team Captain [495]
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A coach has to play with what
Oct 18, 2014, 8:46 PM
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he has. The question was/is, is Morris capable of developing/improving players? Or, is he a fantastic dream scheme coach and talker, but that can't develop players nor adjust to the opponent at hand.
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Orange Blooded [2182]
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Team Captain [495]
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I'm a Clemson fan. It is just that
Oct 18, 2014, 8:02 PM
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Morris is still learning, and it shows. Has he proven he is worth being the highest paid OC in college football? No. Has he shown he can develop players, or position coaches (if you want to argue that point)? No.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: I'm a Clemson fan. It is just that
Oct 18, 2014, 8:04 PM
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How good has our offense been the past 3 years? Ill hang up and listen
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Team Captain [495]
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And the excuse of the
Oct 18, 2014, 8:11 PM
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QB is not comfortable under center in short yardage situations satisfies you??? Isn't it the OC/QB coach's job to teach/train/develop to put the player/team in best position to succeed? Could he not anticipate that a QB may need to be under center in some short yardage situations, as opposed to the excuse of "that is not our offense."
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Still waiting on your response to USC (the real ones)
Oct 18, 2014, 8:11 PM
[ in reply to I'm a Clemson fan. It is just that ] |
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record, and how BC might be good. You will find it in this thread.
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Team Captain [495]
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So you're saying BC is a top 25 team. They rely
Oct 18, 2014, 8:17 PM
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on QB for everything on offense (which Clemson D handled very well) and an "ameba" defense because they know they can't match up straight up. So, who needs to adjust and can they? I think that is the Clemson O, coached by the Clemson OC.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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BC is a good team at home
Oct 18, 2014, 8:19 PM
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They ran the ball down a very talented USCe's throat. We held onto the ball on offense long enough to prevent them from wearing us down.
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Team Captain [495]
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You're avoiding the lack of player development
Oct 18, 2014, 8:20 PM
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question.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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No, I'm really not
Oct 18, 2014, 8:21 PM
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Who didn't develop?
Clemson has put several skill position players into the NFL during the Chad Morris era.
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Team Captain [495]
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Recruiting has improved. Players come in with
Oct 18, 2014, 8:27 PM
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more talent and better prepared. Has there been player developmen/improvement from Fr to So to Jr to Sr years? Think about it. No, really think about it.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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So he sucks because we have good players?
Oct 18, 2014, 8:30 PM
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Should we start recruiting bad players so we can finally see what he can do? I remember 2 games this year when he wasn't terrible. We had our (and the QB he specifically recruited to run the offense) 5* QB on the field.
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Team Captain [495]
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The original question was in regards to
Oct 18, 2014, 8:42 PM
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player development. Yes, we are recruiting better players. Morris isn't the only one responsible for that. As a matter of fact, he is the recruiter of record for few. Can he, as OC, develop players and improve their performance while they are at Clemson? Has player performance improved from Fr to Jr-Sr years? Do you honestly think it has? Watson, Williams, Scott, Choice, Gallman --> talent as already displayed. Will they develop/improve in next 2 years? Wouldn't it be Great if they did? Can Morris do/help do that? Has he improved Stoudt, Howard, or other skill positions? I know, I know. He is not the position coach for all those guys. But, he is the OC in charge of those positions. The question is, can Morris develop players in the time that he has them?
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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You know, it's kind of hard to say
Oct 18, 2014, 8:49 PM
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I didn't see Stoudt play over the last 3 years. Howard has always been injured, and when he hasn't he has been a spot player at best, which he still is.
Rod McDowell looked pretty good last year. Does he get credit for that?
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Team Captain [495]
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McDowell gets credit. Great heart. Waited his
Oct 18, 2014, 8:52 PM
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turn and excelled beyond what most felt he could, although those that saw him in HS knew his capabilities. Sorry, but Boyd is the classic example of not improving under Morris. Great raw talent and he, unfortunately for him, remained a raw talent.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I guess he can't win
Oct 18, 2014, 8:54 PM
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If a player is good, it's because they were going to be good anyway. If a player doesn't "develop" it's because they were good but the coaching sucks.
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Legend [16186]
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Re: I guess he can't win
Oct 18, 2014, 9:28 PM
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Blahblahblah. Clueless.
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Team Captain [495]
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One simple question - has anyone improved performance on
Oct 18, 2014, 11:02 PM
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offense under Morris? Yes the offense has improved since the Bowden Error and release of inexperienced OC (but great recruiter) that as handed the job. But is Morris, as the highest paid OC in college football, capable of developing a player (i.e., improving his performance from receipt to departure). Ain't anybody named anybody yet nor backed it up. Can Morris develop a player? So far the answer is, no, not really.
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Legend [16186]
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Re: One simple question - has anyone improved performance on
Oct 19, 2014, 7:37 AM
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Clueless. Loves to hear himself type.
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Trainer [27]
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Re: One simple question - has anyone improved performance on
Oct 19, 2014, 8:36 AM
[ in reply to One simple question - has anyone improved performance on ] |
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Okay let's just name a few! Nuk was a good talent but he also improved vastly from year 1 to 3 and became a first round pick. hot rod became a 1000 yard rusher out of nowhere. Dwayne Allen had his best year under Morris by far. Mike Williams is becoming a dominant receiver and will be the next high selection in the NFL draft. Tajh Boyd became a household name under Morris. Hump has put together a nice career at Clemson. Brandon Ford waited his turn and had a good last season. I really don't get all of the player development stuff. Not ever 4 star player makes it. I've a little underwhelmed by this years offense but we have had top 10 offenses since Morris has been here. You must not remember how bad our offense was the year before Morris arrived. Has there been questionable calls? Yes but we are working with a back up QB, a depleted oline, freshmen and sophomores at receiver, and our top running backs are both freshman. We all wish Dye was healthy and zach Brooks by most estimations would have been our starter at running back before he went down. Oh and our tight ends have fought through injuries. Patience grasshopper! We will have a top 10 offense again next year after these growing pains!
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Team Captain [495]
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110%er [5010]
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The DC is a keeper, Chad isn't!***
Oct 18, 2014, 8:25 PM
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Team Captain [495]
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Amen! At least
Oct 18, 2014, 8:28 PM
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as far as what HE has shown to date.
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