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Head Coach [798]
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So, has the curtain been pulled back on the wizard?
Jan 3, 2013, 11:13 AM
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We see what is happening this year - regardless of the excuses - with the SEC teams falling.
And it makes me wonder about past years, especially last year. We all heard last year how great Ala and LSU were, and nothing would do but to rematch them in a NC game, while some of us wondered out loud about putting LSU against Oregon. After seeing what our up tempo offense did to LSU, and their mighty defense - which mind you got its lofty numbers by playing SEC teams, along with some cupcakes this year. (Their best OOC win was an average at best Washington team, with Towson, Idaho, and North Texas being the remaining schedule.)
In hindsight, I have no doubt Oregon would have killed them.
When the wizard - ESPN hype machine - is constantly praising the SEC, showing their highlights, giving the majority of its air time to them, giving them the majority of Game Day schedules, it has an affect (and effect) on voting by individuals who really believe they are unbiased. And even on here, some Tiger fans have pointed to their won/loss records and said, "how could you not rank them so high?" Yet, our EYES told us this year that Florida was not very good, and when they beat FSU, we backed off, and said, "Maybe so." Yet, we all know how shaky FSU is at times.... just rewatch the Orange Bowl, the VT game, NC State, etc.
The final nail would be ND beating Alabama, but even if they do not, I will still doubt if the two best teams played for the NC. And it further outraged me to hear the ESPN guys talking last week about how if this were a four team playoff, that 3, if not 4 SEC teams deserved to be in there. Ala, Ga, Fl, and LSU. Completely skipped over K State and Oregon in their conversation!! Yet, we have a four team playoff coming that is not bound by how many conference teams can be there.
For all our sakes, we need ND to win. I for one do not want to see 2, 3, or 4 SEC teams in the playoff simply because they have been overhyped and due to their OOC schedules padding their resumes, while every other team in the country gets ridiculed for playing soft OOC schedules. The SEC gets a pass because they "play in the SEC"!! (How many times have you heard FSU's schedule thrown up by ESPN? I have heard it over it over during the season. How many times have you heard of Clemson's schedule being soft?)
Last of all, how many times will SEC teams fall a few spots after a loss, while other teams tumble after a close loss on the road against a top opponent? We dropped after wins! While Florida went up in the polls after a really bad win at home against a much weaker team! THAT is how they all get in the top ten (top 5) while everyone else stays behind. They start the season high, and even after a loss, they drop slow, while other teams are punished for the same or less.
And the cry I heard from the pundits (ESPN), was simply, "if you think the SEC is overrated, then beat them." NOW THAT IT HAS HAPPENED - NOW THAT THEIR MIGHTIEST HAVE FALLEN - crickets from most. excuses from the rest.
As much as ND disgusts me - same reasons as SEC when they were overhyped 20 years ago - I want them to kill Bama. When the 3 mightiest of the SEC - Bama, Florida, and LSU fall - I will patiently wait for next year, and see if it reflects in the initial polls, or will all be forgotten, and it starts all over again?
What do you think?
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Legend [19197]
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Great analogy.
Jan 3, 2013, 11:15 AM
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I am OZ the great and powerful!
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All-In [26968]
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Louisville beating Florida helped...
Jan 3, 2013, 11:16 AM
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I don't think Clemson beating LSU is all that influential in the SEC debate. Notre Dame beating Alabama obviously would be.
It would take another year or two of similar performances by the SEC in BCS games to start to lessen the hype.
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Legend [19197]
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LOL. LSU is one of the top SEC teams and got dominated
Jan 3, 2013, 11:17 AM
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statistically by the lowly ACC team.
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All-In [26968]
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Sure. But what was the conversation after the game?
Jan 3, 2013, 11:20 AM
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Did national people talk about it as ACC beating the SEC? I'm not so sure about that. I'm also quite sure not as many people watched that game as watched the Sugar Bowl.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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Clemson and FSU (and to some extent VT)
Jan 3, 2013, 11:25 AM
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have removed themselves from the ACC heap when it comes to national conversations. The reputation is that those 3 want to play big boy football. You didn't hear too many Clemson fans chanting ACC or pulling for the ACC sidekick vs SEC sidekick like LSU (or Auburn).
I think the "national" reputation of the ACC is centered on the fair to midling teams that go through the motions like NCSU/UNC/Maryland.
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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Head Coach [798]
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I missed it. What was he saying?***
Jan 3, 2013, 12:20 PM
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Legend [19808]
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yes, just look at how FSU has continued to dominate the ACC
Jan 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
[ in reply to Louisville beating Florida helped... ] |
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pre-season polls/picks just because of all they did more than 10 years ago under Bowden.
That kind of history (& hype) doesn't get forgotten in 8 months, unfortunately.
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All-In [26968]
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Absolutely...there is significant inertia to it.
Jan 3, 2013, 11:22 AM
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Tim Tebow only played for like 12 plays this year, but he's still a media magnet. It will take another year like that for it to subside.
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Head Coach [798]
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INERTIA is the best word I have seen to describe it.
Jan 3, 2013, 11:28 AM
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It is a big mass rolling, and will take a lot to stop it. However, in this case, ESPN's money is pushing that mass even harder.
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Head Coach [798]
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Re: yes, just look at how FSU has continued to dominate the ACC
Jan 3, 2013, 11:24 AM
[ in reply to yes, just look at how FSU has continued to dominate the ACC ] |
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I tend to agree too Suzy. It has been 20 years for ND, but any year they string together 2 or 3 wins, they start rising fast.
I think it will take another year of this... maybe two.. and I really think it will happen again next year.
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Orange Blooded [2459]
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It will take ESPN hitching their wagon to another conference
Jan 3, 2013, 11:24 AM
[ in reply to Louisville beating Florida helped... ] |
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to lessen the SEC hype - they control the message and they have too much invested in the SEC to let any other conference take any light off the MIGHTY SEC - so they engineered a scenario last year to protect Bama and LSU from OK State - who would have destroyed either of them by making the case for the rematch DURING the first matchup and every second of every 24 hour broadcast day until the final BCS came out - and not like they felt those were the two best teams - IT WAS A FACT OF LIFE just like the world is FLAT eerrrrrr I mean round that they were far and away the best two teams - period.
Hell earlier this year one of the DA's said Alabama could beat some NFL team?????? Really?
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All-Conference [435]
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This is what I don't get
Jan 3, 2013, 12:30 PM
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ESPN owns ACC and other conference rights so it's actually in their best interests to represent and promote ALL conferences that they cover. Good business is to grow the game as a whole so that interest is as high as possible in as many markets as possible. It hurts them financially if they denigrate the ACC or any other league they pay to air.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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The SEC still has 2 big games
Jan 3, 2013, 11:21 AM
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to try to keep the "bestest conference evar by far" trophy. If TAMU can beat OK then that does say something about their depth at the top.
Ole Miss/Pitt is just another bowl like the Music City Bowl. Doesn't really say much either way. The Sugar and CFA are pretty big losses for them. The Outback and Citrus are big wins. The Gator is a loss.
I'd like to see what the SEC's bowl record is against conferences NOT named Big 10. It seems like they get their reputation as a bowl juggernaut because they destroy Big 10 teams.
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Orange Blooded [3521]
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Re: So, has the curtain been pulled back on the wizard?
Jan 3, 2013, 11:25 AM
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Yes! And we found out that none other than Frank Morgan is writing the ###### and pulling the leavers at ESPN.
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CU Medallion [55300]
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Re: So, has the curtain been pulled back on the wizard?
Jan 3, 2013, 11:28 AM
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With the money ESPN has invested in the SEC, it will just rewind....
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Head Coach [798]
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that is my gut feeling too.
Jan 3, 2013, 11:29 AM
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But, I do believe the same can be done to them (losses on a big stage) again next year.
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Orange Blooded [3233]
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To be fair, LSU played Oregon and beat them***
Jan 3, 2013, 11:29 AM
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Head Coach [798]
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Re: To be fair, LSU played Oregon and beat them***
Jan 3, 2013, 11:31 AM
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You are absolutely right... first game of the year. So why did Oregon not get a second shot at them - like bama did? Why did OK State not get a FIRST shot at them?
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CU Guru [1838]
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Iowa St for the Pokes
Jan 3, 2013, 12:49 PM
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Southern Cal second loss for Ducks
Message was edited by: elcid1985®
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Orange Blooded [3945]
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Re: So, has the curtain been pulled back on the wizard?
Jan 3, 2013, 11:36 AM
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Good stuff 89. I also hope the change in their bowl dominance this year directly affects the recruiting outcomes in February. Even if just by a little.
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Orange Blooded [4974]
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Re: So, has the curtain been pulled back on the wizard?
Jan 3, 2013, 12:35 PM
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Great article, but folks really need to prepare themselves for the fact that 7 out of the top 10 preason ranked teams will probably be from the SEC. It's the world we live in. The new playoff system will cause the NCAA to lose money.
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CU Guru [1321]
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You talk about Oregon destroying LSU, when LSU stumped
Jan 3, 2013, 12:54 PM
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Oregon big time 2 years ago, and crushed WVA last year. Their Defense was always legit. If their O could have played a bit better then their D wouldn't have been so tired. Same thing you did with Carolina. Defense couldn't get off the field because they were worn out with the offense not staying on the field. It was their Offense all the way that let them down (and your Tigers definitely helped that by bringing a good defense into the game for a change).
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Head Coach [798]
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Do you think OK State should have been given a shot at them?
Jan 3, 2013, 12:56 PM
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OK State was 11-1.... just like Bama
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CU Guru [1321]
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I absolutely think OK St had a better resume all around than
Jan 3, 2013, 12:57 PM
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Bama.Their loss was a touch more embarrassing, but they had more quality wins.
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110%er [8015]
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I hate to make excuses for Okie Light.
Jan 3, 2013, 1:03 PM
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But there was also that horrific plane crash the night before, and many of the football players loved the coaches that died. It may be fair to say they weren't all there for the Iowa State game.
Message was edited by: 6317forever®
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CU Guru [1321]
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There is that. I still think they had the better resume
Jan 3, 2013, 1:04 PM
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and while I'm not sold that they'd have beaten LSU last year (whose offense was a little better than this year), I'd have liked the match-up.
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110%er [6224]
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Bama lost AT HOME to LSU.
Jan 3, 2013, 1:06 PM
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based on that fact alone...there was no reason for it to be played again at a neutral site. OK State deserved the shot.
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CU Guru [1321]
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<.< Don't know what you're getting at, but that's exactly
Jan 3, 2013, 1:09 PM
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what I just said. OK St should have gotten the go ahead.
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110%er [6224]
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was stating my opinion.
Jan 3, 2013, 1:11 PM
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guess it just was the same as yours. 
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Head Coach [798]
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110%er [8015]
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Agreed.
Jan 3, 2013, 1:09 PM
[ in reply to There is that. I still think they had the better resume ] |
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Oklahoma did top a pretty good Stanford team, however. And I think Stanford would have beaten LSU/Bama. They had the combination of a good defense and a great offense led by Luck.
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CU Guru [1059]
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Re: I hate to make excuses for Okie Light.
Jan 3, 2013, 10:47 PM
[ in reply to I hate to make excuses for Okie Light. ] |
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You have to bring it for every game no matter what....wait, unless you are an SEC team disinterested in playing in a BCS game because your feelings are hurt that 4 SEC teams can't have a 4 quarter HS style round robin jamboree to determine the National Champion.
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110%er [9646]
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Correct. If Pitt doesn't miss a FG against ND, that putrid
Jan 3, 2013, 1:19 PM
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Florida team that we saw last night would be playing for the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP in a few days. That would have been a travesty (as far as college football is concerned).
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Head Coach [798]
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Exactly! We would have been force fed that FL and Bama
Jan 3, 2013, 3:33 PM
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play each other this year... SEC vs SEC again.
It was a huge mistake last year, and this year came close again.... simply from the SEC bias.
last year - OK State, or even Stanford would have been a better match for LSU.... even give Oregon a SECOND shot at them. But Bama lost AT HOME TO LSU... never deserved a 2nd shot.
Another way to see it: HYPOTHETICAL: If Clemson goes 11-1 next year, with ONLY loss being FSU, while FSU goes 12-0. Will we get a 2nd match up with FSU in teh NC Game? Better yet, will we both make the final 4?
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CU Guru [1838]
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Oregon lost two games and next year isn't the playoff***
Jan 3, 2013, 3:36 PM
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Hall of Famer [24687]
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That's right. Next year is Clemson's 32-year anniversary.***
Jan 3, 2013, 3:41 PM
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CU Guru [1838]
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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I'm really not so worried about the playoffs.
Jan 3, 2013, 3:47 PM
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A selection committee will select and seed the teams. I've been dissapointed with the selection committee for the NCAAB tournament but only because Clemson was on the bubble and didn't make the cut. Honestly, the first round beating we took after being seeded in the tourney hurt more than being snubbed.
I don't think Clemson will be ignore if we win our schedule. If we don't win our schedule being ignored is fair as rain.
I couldn't agree more with you about the ESPiN-SEC hype. All sports media C&P from ESPiN except for articles about their home team.
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Head Coach [798]
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Re: So, has the curtain been pulled back on the wizard?
Jan 3, 2013, 8:39 PM
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I really want this game tonight to be really good, and show America what a real "Championship Game" could look like without the SEC forced into every Championship game.
I konw this is technically the "runners up" game, but only becuase Oregon and K State lost ONE game each. (Nevermind that Bama lost ONE game too.)
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Freshman [4]
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.....or will all be forgotten, and it starts all over again?
Jan 3, 2013, 9:07 PM
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Yes. It does all start all over again. Every team has to prove itself on the field the next year. Past season and preseason polls are worthless. Every team starts out without a loss. What matters is what you bring to the next game, and which team works the hardest after the end of the last game (or season) to the next.
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Head Coach [798]
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Re: .....or will all be forgotten, and it starts all over again?
Jan 3, 2013, 9:17 PM
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Not so simple... lots of bias to start out with. Everybody is not equal... not even when they are 0 - 0 for W/L. Some start high, and stay high. What was the lowest rank for Ala with one loss this season? How many teams were ranked well below that with one loss?
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Freshman [4]
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Re: .....or will all be forgotten, and it starts all over again?
Jan 3, 2013, 9:55 PM
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What I am saying, and many other have also said, is that the preseason poll does not matter. First of all, it is based on the prior year, which was with a different team makeup, and secondly, no games have been played. The polls do not matter until about the 5th or 6th game is done, when you really know something about the ability of the teams against competition. The first few games are usually patsies (Georgia next year is the exception).
As for your one-loss Ala - by the time that has occurred in the last two years, going from undefeated to that one loss was at a time when there were few one-loss teams with the quality wins they had. It's all subjective, but that's all you have to compare the teams. That's how I see it. I respect your comments though.
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Scout Team [171]
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Re: .....or will all be forgotten, and it starts all over again?
Jan 3, 2013, 10:18 PM
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The initial polls do matter since they set the pattern for the BCS computer polls to rank off of, and the AP and Coaches polls also work into the BCS equation with each being a weighted 1/3 of the final score...
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Freshman [4]
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Re: .....or will all be forgotten, and it starts all over again?
Jan 3, 2013, 10:35 PM
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I disagree. The initial polls do not mean anything, and the BCS poll is not even computed until after the sixth or seventh game of the season (October 14th this past season). A lot of teams prove themselves worthy or not by then. The "pattern" is also meaningless, since the teams have five or six more games to show if they are to qualify. It is the final poll (or score, as you say), which decides the BCS pairings. It is not perfect, but you can make the case that usually the best two teams are matched for the championship. The changes will be welcome though.
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Varsity [229]
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Re: So, has the curtain been pulled back on the wizard?
Jan 3, 2013, 10:01 PM
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First and foremost great post well written! I agree with you on all points. I am pulling for ND on Monday night!! I am sick of money and media buying College Football!! After the FSU game we dropped like a rock yet Bama remains in the top 5 after the Texas A&M loss...What gives? It will be interesting to see the spin ESPN has if Bama, UF, and LSU are all bowl game losers!
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Enthusiast [100]
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't LSU beat Oregon last yr?
Jan 4, 2013, 12:33 PM
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I was under the impression that everyone was hoping Oklahoma State's high powered offense would have played LSU in the National Championship last year.
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Enthusiast [100]
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http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=312460099
Jan 4, 2013, 12:34 PM
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There's the score. Week 1, 2011. Last year.
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