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Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault
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Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault

emoji_events [7]
Mar 10, 2022, 8:13 AM

Was it also brownell that got the team back into the game in the second half? Just wondering. He drew up some fantastic plays and our guys started hitting shots.

If we hadn't uncharacteristically missed layups/got some foul calls our way, we win this game against a better team with our best player not playing at 100%.

Any moron with half a brain knew this game was a 50 50 game at best. They are a more veteran team, and had a better ACC record. They are also one of the best shooting teams in the ACC. This was going to be a tough game

But no.... we lose a game on a contested 3 that that guy hits probably 35% of the time at best and the loss is all on brownell. I really wish you all could realizee how ridiculous/ insane you sound.

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Re: Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault

[2]
Mar 10, 2022, 8:21 AM

Well this Moron says that of Brownell was not in His 123 year of coaching at Clemson without ever winning anything then He might get the benefit of the doubt!
I am sure that Brownell blamed the season on the walkouts after He cussed them out and humiliated them!
Fire Brownell today!

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Re: Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault

[2]
Mar 10, 2022, 8:51 AM

1965tiger said:

Well this Moron says that of Brownell was not in His 123 year of coaching at Clemson without ever winning anything then He might get the benefit of the doubt!
I am sure that Brownell blamed the season on the walkouts after He cussed them out and humiliated them!
Fire Brownell today!



????????

This has nothing to do with my post. Are you saying the game is all brownell's fault because he's been here too long and not met your expectations.

And speaking of not winning anything, has any coach at Clemson won to your standards? Or are you just a grumpy old fart?

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Re: Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault

[1]
Mar 10, 2022, 11:30 AM

my comment had everything to do with your post! You may not like that I disagreed with you but it was in direct response to your post! To be honest I did not watch the game but I did not need to to know that yes it's all Brownell's fault! He is the coach and has been for many many years!

As to your question of does any coaches meet my standard the answer is yes!

So far the ladies basket ball coach is doing a good job.
The men's soccer coach is fantastic!
The softball coach has been incredible!
If Dabo never wins another game He is still the greatest ever!

As far as I know the only coach cussing and humiliating and blaming walk- ons for his failure is Brownell!

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Re: Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault

[1]
Mar 10, 2022, 12:31 PM

Are you sure you're wanting to put the job Amanda Butler has done with Dabo, Rittman, and Noonan?

Genuine question...what has Butler done to be considered having done a good job?

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Re: Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault

[3]
Mar 10, 2022, 8:31 AM

Sounds like you’re celebrating a close loss, I called that “cootish”. Brownell makes 2 1/2 million dollars a year, and he is responsible for the results of the basketball team. Letting him off the hook when a player made a bad play is absurd, it’s the same people who made excuses for Tommy Bowden when we couldn’t kick an extra point

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Re: Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault


Mar 10, 2022, 8:47 AM

Cdixon11 said:

Sounds like you’re celebrating a close loss, I called that “cootish”. Brownell makes 2 1/2 million dollars a year, and he is responsible for the results of the basketball team. Letting him off the hook when a player made a bad play is absurd, it’s the same people who made excuses for Tommy Bowden when we couldn’t kick an extra point



Please point in my post where I'm happy about a close loss. I mean the comments just oeep getting dumber and dumber.

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Re: Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault

[4]
Mar 10, 2022, 11:58 AM

Demanding folks celebrate Brad and give him credit for “fantastic plays” getting us “back into the game,” just to lose is kind of dumb.

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I would say the final score kinda matters.***

[4]
Mar 10, 2022, 8:33 AM



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Re: I would say the final score kinda matters.***


Mar 10, 2022, 8:48 AM

Yes it does. Very much so. What a supid response to my post.

Did you expect us to win an easy game yesterday ? Did brownell do anything good as a coach in the game?

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Pro tip: Your personal attacks don’t help make whatever point you’re trying to make.

emoji_events [6]
Mar 10, 2022, 8:55 AM

I’ll respond to you anyway.

It’s a results oriented business. We’re not getting the results.
The 17-16 season is a perfect illustration of Brad winning the most games of any Clemson basketball coach, but also losing the most games of any coach.

He’s simply been here too long, and it’s time to try something new.

Bye.

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Re: Pro tip: Your personal attacks don’t help make whatever point you’re trying to make.


Mar 10, 2022, 9:08 AM

Yes, this season hasn't been great. Luckily, this is the worst season we have had in 5 years.

I wasn't expecting this year to go as poorly as it did but it happened. We finished the year off greatly improved (that's what good coaches do) and we are going into next year with probably the deepest, most talented team we have had under brownell (barring injuries or transfers). Even if we have transfers, I have confidence that brownell will improve our team with transfers like he does every year.

I have never said brownell has been perfect, and I wouldn't be angry if he was fired.but not everything is his fault line you and other posters claim. I think brownell did more good to keep us in the game last night than he did bad to make us lose.

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Re: Pro tip: Your personal attacks don’t help make whatever point you’re trying to make.

[1]
Mar 10, 2022, 11:33 AM

Has Brownell ever had a good season? I know they made the sweet 16 one year... One year

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One. Ever.


Mar 10, 2022, 9:28 PM

Yay!

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Re: I would say the final score kinda matters.***

[1]
Mar 10, 2022, 12:02 PM

Brownell didn’t put 6 men on the floor so that’s an improvement and a positive.

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Re: Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault


Mar 10, 2022, 8:38 AM

I like Brownell and hope we keep him, as I am not sure we will ever get a better coach that will stay at Clemson (i.e. Rick Barnes) if he does well. However, it may not be a coincidence that by and far loses a lot more one possession games than he wins. It seems like over the years that would just about equal out. I could be wrong, as I have not looked at all the history, but it sure seems that way.

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Re: Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault


Mar 10, 2022, 9:10 AM

Somebody made a post that brownell had a ridiculous losing record in games where the pint differential is 5 points or less.

I actually went through and tallied them all up and he was actually over .500 in those games.

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I don't believe you.


Mar 10, 2022, 9:37 AM

AND - the games we won by 5 or less, we were probably winning by 20 with 6 minutes to go.


I actually went through and tallied them all up and actually over half the games we won by actually 5 or less, we were actually winning by 20 or more points with actually 5 mins and 45 seconds or less actually to play in actual regulation.

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Brad Brownell: all-time losingest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: I don't believe you.


Mar 10, 2022, 10:47 AM

It was either 5 or 6 points or less. WHatever stat NCTigs provided about a month or 2 ago. If you are so sure, why don't you look up the thread, or actually tally them up yourself. I can't remember if the stat was 5 points or 6 points.

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Re: I don't believe you.


Mar 10, 2022, 12:03 PM

The very fact you are having this discussion tells you everything you need to know about the Brad Brownell Era.

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Re: I don't believe you.

[4]
Mar 10, 2022, 8:13 PM

You couldn't be more full of s**t. Just blatant lying. You tallied it up and got that he was over 50%??? Suuuuure. I guess you didn't expect anyone to tally it up, but I had already done 3 pts or less, so did the rest.

Brownell's record in games decided by

1 pt: 5-14
2 pts: 11-20
3 pts: 10-13
4 pts: 13-11
5 pts: 8-14
6 pts: 5-14

Total record in games decided by 6 points or less is 52-86. In 5 points or less, 47-72.


Not guaranteeing this is 100% accurate. I may have made a mistake somewhere, but I sure didn't make 25 mistakes that all went against Brownell

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Those numbers check out.

[2]
Mar 10, 2022, 9:14 PM

I counted 3 points as 10-14 (also could be off) but the others match straight up.

Those percentages are awful. Look at one possession games (3 and under): 26-48 (35.1%). Holy smokes. 26-39 (40.0%) in the remainder of close games. No wonder it's been so painful to experience.

And the rest? Those games decided by 7 points or more either way? 166-79. A whopping 67.8% winning percentage.

That is wack. 12 years of wack.


I used this source...
https://clemsontigers.com/sports/mens-basketball/schedule/season/2021/


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Nah, he did great last night. PJ Hall is a gamer. Its been

[1]
Mar 10, 2022, 8:40 AM

a while since we've had one of those. You can tell that kid wants it.

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Re: Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault

emoji_events [5]
Mar 10, 2022, 8:44 AM

When your the HC everything is your fault. That’s the nature of the job.

And that kids stats say he makes that shot more than 50% of the time.


Message was edited by: RunJumpCatch®


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Re: Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault

[1]
Mar 10, 2022, 9:17 AM

Sadly the facts of life. TU for you

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Re: Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault


Mar 10, 2022, 10:10 AM


When your the HC everything is your fault. That’s the nature of the job.

And that kids stats say he makes that shot more than 50% of the time.


Message was edited by: RunJumpCatch®



You know what's funny? Earlier in the season we lost a game on a play that BB drew up for Collins to take a 3. I can't remember the team we played. It was a beautifully drawn play, and everyone on here was complaining that brownell drew the play up for Collins.

Collins was our highest percentage 3 point shooter at the time, he just didn't take a ton. Similar to Maddux. Dude averages 6 points a game but made 50% of his 3s. Good play called by mike young, but that's a tough shot by that young man. I don't have confidence that anyone on our team makes that.

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Re: Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault


Mar 10, 2022, 12:41 PM

I remember that game. If we make the 3 we win at the buzzer. We missed. Bored melt down. Wait was that the Duke game?

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Re: Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault

[1]
Mar 10, 2022, 8:07 PM

Unc game at lj

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Not true. Here's what morons need to understand ...

emoji_events [15]
Mar 10, 2022, 8:51 AM

Brownell has a 12 year record and body of work here at Clemson ...

Average 8th place finish in conference.

Average finish last 3 years - 8th (no trend up).

Losing record in conference.

3 NCAA Tournament appearances in 12 years.

One top 25 finish in 12 years. ONE.

Only 3 of his players have made it to the NBA, none have lasted or had significant careers.

So don't get too hung up on what happened last night, or whether or not it was his fault or the players' fault in that game, or in any one game, because it doen't matter. We have a 12 year body of work upon which to evaluate. No other school in the conference would hang on to a coach with those results unless expectations were pathetically low .. unless they were losers who had accepted defeat.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: Not true. Here's what morons need to understand ...


Mar 10, 2022, 8:54 AM

Amen.

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Class of ‘71. Went through “rat season” and glad I did.


That is about as good of an "elevator pitch" as I have read


Mar 10, 2022, 9:07 AM

Let's put that in a PowerPoint slide.

Any suggestions on where it could be presented?

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J. Marc Edwards
Cary, NC


Re: Not true. Here's what morons need to understand ...


Mar 10, 2022, 9:16 AM

This has nothing to do with my post, but ok. I am well aware of our struggles under brownell and every other coach Clemson has had.

What people, including you don't understand is that I am on the fence about firing brownell. It would be ok with me if he was fired and it would be ok with me if he stayed.

What would you do?keep everything the same and hire an up and coming coach that we hope is better than every other coach we have ever hired? And then hope he stays if he has success? What would be your strategy?

Because I'm looking at the recruits we have coming in next year, and the talent coming back. We look to be one of the deepest, most talented teams under brownell coming back. We have the best player Clemson has had in 20+ years coming back.

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Simple

[1]
Mar 10, 2022, 10:48 AM

1. Are you satisfied with this year's performance? If so, and there's reason to think the success will continue, then you're done. No changes needed unless you are giving the coach a better contract to keep him around. If not, then you have to move to step 2. That's clearly where we are here - there is no way to spin a 10th place finish into a success.

2. Looking at the current coaches record, is there reason to think, in terms of actual measurable performance and results, that there could be signifigant improvement over the next couple of years? If the coach is fairly new, say less than 4 or 5 years in, then it's hard to say, and he probably has to be given a chance to prove himself. That is not the case here, and the answer here is a resounding, emphatic NO. No sane, honest, non-delusional individual can argue otherwise. It's beyond the point of absurdity. That's when it's time to move to step 3.

3. Changes must be made. Whether it's better facillities, more assistants, better PR, a new head coach, whatever, something has to change. That's where we are with Clemson basketball.

Clemson should aim higher than a perennial 8th place finish; we can and should expect to do better. But, it won't happen by coincidence, or if we keep doing the same things that we know aren't getting us there. We have to make changes, and do things differently. Or we can stay the same. If we make a change, is there any guarantee? Of course not - a new coach could very well fail; but at least that gives us a chance, and it gives us hope.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: Simple

[1]
Mar 10, 2022, 9:24 PM

I agree Smiling Tiger, 110%! I have been watching this show long enough to know, we are going no where with this coach. We need a change.

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Class of '87


Re: Not true. Here's what morons need to understand ...


Mar 10, 2022, 11:43 AM

You sure are a touchy fella! Especially for someone who called people morons in your original post!

Brad Brownell needs to go! 12 years of losing is long enough.

I know I maybe alone in this opinion but The way He talked to The Mcbride kid last year showed me exactly who Brad Brownell is. He could win 100 Nattys and I still would not ant him! But alas He just loses!

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I would say that the 3 was very uncontested.***

[2]
Mar 10, 2022, 8:53 AM



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Re: Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault

[2]
Mar 10, 2022, 8:54 AM

The three wasn’t contested as it should have been. You protect the three even if it means giving up the two. As the clock was winding down, the defender has to have situational awareness to know that the guy is thinking three all the way. Defender got on his heels, and that’s all the shooter needed.

Probably not Brownell’s fault directly, but it just seems his tenure has been about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. This was just another chapter, with hopefully none to follow.

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Re: Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault


Mar 10, 2022, 8:59 AM

Only uninformed, non-athletes blame coaches every time adversity strikes. If it was that easy, football, baseball and basketball coaches would be moving every year. Life happens and those of us mature enough to understand that realize no team wins every game.

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Re: Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault


Mar 10, 2022, 9:13 AM

Good post but was that 3 truly contested?
Darn guy was a 53% 3 point shooter.
With 7.3 seconds left why call a T.O. and why play a zone? I know I'm being a Thursday morning hindsight coach but still....

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It amazes me that you "guys" are more of a fan of the coach

[3]
Mar 10, 2022, 9:18 AM

than of Clemson or the players. I would never say it is all the coaches fault. However, your crew does the exact opposite. When you win, you CROW that we have a great coach. And when we lose you CROW that it's not the coaches fault. A reasonable person would say that sometimes it's the coaching and sometimes it's the players. But the end result is the same. Last night was a great second half. Kudos to coaching and to the players for playing their arses off. But, 12 years of mediocrity. I just don't get it. I've always tried to better myself. One more pushup, one more pullup, a bit more productivity, spend some more time with my wife/kids, read a book, etc. etc. If after 12 years there is no upward trend, then . . .

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Re: It amazes me that you "guys" are more of a fan of the coach


Mar 10, 2022, 10:45 AM

lovingit® said:

than of Clemson or the players. I would never say it is all the coaches fault. However, your crew does the exact opposite. When you win, you CROW that we have a great coach. And when we lose you CROW that it's not the coaches fault. A reasonable person would say that sometimes it's the coaching and sometimes it's the players. But the end result is the same. Last night was a great second half. Kudos to coaching and to the players for playing their arses off. But, 12 years of mediocrity. I just don't get it. I've always tried to better myself. One more pushup, one more pullup, a bit more productivity, spend some more time with my wife/kids, read a book, etc. etc. If after 12 years there is no upward trend, then . . .




Please link to me where I give the credit to Brownell when we win and blame the players when we lose... I will wait.

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Re: Since every negative play of the VT game was brownell's fault


Mar 10, 2022, 9:29 AM

It was a gutsy effort to get back in the game and have a chance to win.
Brownell did a nice job mostly. The effort was team driven though

I will say this the guy with the ball shoots 53% from three point range and our smallest player was on him.
Brownell could have put a taller defense in to better disrupt the long shot and knowing that a two pointer would simply continue the game not lose it.

Situational substitution does not happen much for Brownell but it is heavily used by most legendary coaches.

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Individual plays are all ultimately tied to the head coach,


Mar 10, 2022, 11:13 AM

as they all add up to either a Win or a Loss for the team. Wins and Losses are team and coaching statistics, not individual player statistics.

The players we have now and the ones coming in, and younger kids out there looking at Clemson as a possible destination in the future, deserve a better opportunity for success than Brownell has shown he is capable of providing.

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Re: Individual plays are all ultimately tied to the head coach,


Mar 10, 2022, 11:37 AM

Disagree.

If I knew we could keep all of our players and recruits, I would say we should pull the trigger and fire brownell.

Likewise, if pj hall announces going pro, or multiple people transfer them I could see firing him.

The fact of the matter is we have our best recruit in a long time that will be a junior next year. We also have several nice pieces coming back. I say give him 1 more year and if we don't make noise, he needs to go

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Re: Individual plays are all ultimately tied to the head coach,


Mar 10, 2022, 12:16 PM

You can't deny the similarities between the fears you are sharing in the face of change and the Tommy Bowden predicament. This is a lesson we've already learned. Why not let experience be our guide here?

striperfan was beating this drum earlier and I wholeheartedly agree - go out and hire Greg Buckner to come home and take over. NBA chops, a players' coach, and unwavering dedication to all things Clemson. I believe a PJ Hall, and anyone with NBA potential and dreams, would relish the opportunity to learn under someone with Buckner's pedigree.

Unfortunately, we know what we have in Brad. One more year will be just that. One more year. I would love to see us take a chance on something better, whether it was a Buckner or another young rising star in the biz, who offered promise for a brighter day.

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The game was not lost by BB

[1]
Mar 10, 2022, 12:33 PM

It was an uncontested shot, but simply, sometimes that happens. Was nice comeback by the Tigers.

But saying all that. The game was not BB fault - but the season was.
Should - in the worst ACC talent in the past decades - maybe ever - should Clemson - with the most talented team under BB, the most talented big at Clemson since maybe E. Campbell - have finished so low in the ACC to force us to the playin group of teams?
That is on BB.
A snapshot of the game - good game. I don’t have a big beef regarding anything other than he final score.
12 years, we know what he is and is not. Try someone else.

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Brown L does not draw up plays


Mar 10, 2022, 6:44 PM

He has not put in an offense in 12 years

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Ohh so this is your backup account, JK


Mar 10, 2022, 8:33 PM

A few people around here have been asking about you, but I’m sure you’ve seen every post. I’m sure you love the attention, lurking in the shadows. Not sure why they miss you. Maybe it is your nonsensical beating of a dead horse that they find entertaining.

Oh btw that kid shoots 50% from 3 and hit a game winning 3 last week.

And you’re a moron.

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Are you addressing a T-net poster


Mar 10, 2022, 9:41 PM

or your ex-wife?

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12 years of Groundhog Day.


Mar 10, 2022, 9:26 PM

Any moron knows the buck stops with the head coach. And by the way, the 3 was hardly contested.

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Actually if you polled this site I GUARANTEE


Mar 10, 2022, 9:30 PM

you would win the ridiculous/insane award. You just don't realize how ridiculous/insane your short sighted comments sound.

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